107% Rule

Driven71
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Driven71
Edited Date/Time 3/25/2012 4:57pm
Kept seeing Reed refer to this in his tweets. I didn't know what it was so I looked it up. In F1 racing "during the first phase of qualifying, any driver who fails to set a lap within 107 percent of the fastest time in the first qualifying session will not be allowed to start the race".

This would certainly eliminate some of the riders who 'roll around' in the main (by other rider's definition, not mine). But it looks to me like it would eliminate too many riders? In Toronto in the 450 class Justin Brayton had the fastest qualifying time of 47.496. 107% of that is 50.821. Only 19 riders are at or under that time. Ironically the first rider cut based on this math is Jeff Alessi with a 51.075. In the 250 class it was Justin Bogle with a 47.804, making the cutoff 51.15. Only 18 riders would get in based on this.

I understand the reasoning, but if under 20 riders are good enough for the main based on qualifying times, wouldn't that eliminate the heat races? I know this is all hypothetical and will probably never be a part of sx/mx, just trying to think it all the way through.
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Hoov
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Hoov 3/25/2012 6:36am
3/25/2012 6:36am
Dude, your mathmatical ability alone, not to mention rock solid logic, good grammer, and proper punctuation obviously disqualify you from post on this board...WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!?! LOL Woohoo
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Adam43
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Adam43 3/25/2012 6:43am
3/25/2012 6:43am
The races are hurting for entries as it is, they need to find ways to increase participation, not more ways to clip guys.

Slower riders are a part of racing.
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Shawn142
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Shawn142 3/25/2012 6:53am
3/25/2012 6:53am
Maybe I'm not seeing it as clearly but how would this eliminate the guys who roll around after a few laps? Most of them including Jeff Alessi are capable of busting out a single lap that's within 107% if needed. That doesn't stop them from throwing in the towel after 5 laps in the main.
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vet323
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vet323 3/25/2012 7:14am
3/25/2012 7:14am
Use the heat races to set up an "A " and "B" main. Would add another couple races to the program, someone winning the "B" main would get better exposure than he would get running 10th in a main now. Maybe juggle the points so it's fair.
Driven71
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Driven71 3/25/2012 7:23am
3/25/2012 7:23am
Shawn142 wrote:
Maybe I'm not seeing it as clearly but how would this eliminate the guys who roll around after a few laps? Most of them including Jeff...
Maybe I'm not seeing it as clearly but how would this eliminate the guys who roll around after a few laps? Most of them including Jeff Alessi are capable of busting out a single lap that's within 107% if needed. That doesn't stop them from throwing in the towel after 5 laps in the main.
Capable, yes, but in Toronto they didn't. Not saying I even agree with the whole idea, just wondering what would happen if it was implemented.
Driven71
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Driven71 3/25/2012 7:25am
3/25/2012 7:25am
Hoov wrote:
Dude, your mathmatical ability alone, not to mention rock solid logic, good grammer, and proper punctuation obviously disqualify you from post on this board...WHAT WERE YOU...
Dude, your mathmatical ability alone, not to mention rock solid logic, good grammer, and proper punctuation obviously disqualify you from post on this board...WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!?! LOL Woohoo
Sorry, I'll try to be more "Vital-ish" next time!
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 3/25/2012 8:48am
3/25/2012 8:48am
All the guys that make the main are fast enough not to be a danger, the issue is keeping them at speed, not slowing down and rolling everything, thats when they become dangerous
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Driven71
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Driven71 3/25/2012 9:06am
3/25/2012 9:06am
gt80rider wrote:
All the guys that make the main are fast enough not to be a danger, the issue is keeping them at speed, not slowing down and...
All the guys that make the main are fast enough not to be a danger, the issue is keeping them at speed, not slowing down and rolling everything, thats when they become dangerous
Agreed. You'll never catch me bagging on any of these guys. I'm a weekend warrior and can't even comprehend the skill and concentration it must take to qualify for any pro race, never mind going that pace for 20 laps. However, I see Reed's point just by watching the coverage. I just wondered how it would play out if he actually got his wish. The black flag is a better approach in my armchair opinion.
sbarrington314 3/25/2012 9:12am
3/25/2012 9:12am
so one guy bitches about riders rolling around and now its a problem and needs solved? pffff
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seth505
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seth505 3/25/2012 9:22am
3/25/2012 9:22am
You can't take the same type of rule or scale from F1 or even Moto GP/road racing because the closing speeds are downright dangerous when you are a certain percentage over another guy. Not saying it couldn't work for mx but it would have to be a bigger window IMO.
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Toste 3/25/2012 9:26am
3/25/2012 9:26am
Maybe he means use the "107% rule" within the main itself, not during qualifying practice. If your lap times in the main are not within a certain percentage of the leaders, then you get the black flag?

As someone else pointed out, a lot of these guys can rip a decent single lap...but it doesn't mean they won't peter out early in the main event.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 3/25/2012 9:28am
3/25/2012 9:28am
Shawn142 wrote:
Maybe I'm not seeing it as clearly but how would this eliminate the guys who roll around after a few laps? Most of them including Jeff...
Maybe I'm not seeing it as clearly but how would this eliminate the guys who roll around after a few laps? Most of them including Jeff Alessi are capable of busting out a single lap that's within 107% if needed. That doesn't stop them from throwing in the towel after 5 laps in the main.
Driven71 wrote:
Capable, yes, but in Toronto they didn't. Not saying I even agree with the whole idea, just wondering what would happen if it was implemented.
And in a funny case of irony, this whole thing came about because at the F1 season opener last week neither HRT car qualified within 107% and therefore was excluded from the race. This week in Sepang they didn't have that trouble, both HRT cars ran times just inside 107%. But they also had a HUGE impact because of that. One of their cars caused a pit lane collision with the series points leader which effectively knocked him out of a points paying position, then at the very end the same HRT driver had a collision with the defending series champion that caused him to cut a tire and pull off on the final lap. Even with the rule in place the slower traffic still made the event and caused carnage.

My point being unless the 107% rule was implemented between the heats and mains without any prior knowledge it would keep Alessi from running Weimer off the track. But if the rule was known at the riders meeting before there's a 100% chance Alessi is in the main doing the same thing.
jleews6
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jleews6 3/25/2012 9:32am
3/25/2012 9:32am
I don't think the 107% rule is the answer. Instead I think they need to black flag them when they start rolling around and "getting in the way". I know there are guy's out there that don't make the mains but would still try to go 100% the whole Moto. I think the black flag trick would be an incentive.
Keep in mind my idea is coming from a old guy that couldn't go as fast as these kids on a warm up lap.Laughing
loftyair
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loftyair 3/25/2012 9:36am
3/25/2012 9:36am
Change the meaning of the blue 'leaders are coming' flag to mean 'get off the track, you are done here', and throw it at least a corner ahead, so they are off track when villo and company come flying by.
sbarrington314 3/25/2012 9:39am
3/25/2012 9:39am
loftyair wrote:
Change the meaning of the blue 'leaders are coming' flag to mean 'get off the track, you are done here', and throw it at least a...
Change the meaning of the blue 'leaders are coming' flag to mean 'get off the track, you are done here', and throw it at least a corner ahead, so they are off track when villo and company come flying by.
should they have mirrors and turn signals as well?
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exsarg
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exsarg 3/25/2012 9:44am
3/25/2012 9:44am
there s some good logic there but it would be another slap in the face to the privateer
TX24
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TX24 3/25/2012 9:45am
3/25/2012 9:45am
AMA road racing used to do something like this, I don't know if they still do or not. I think more the, you get lapped you are done
in some form is the way to go.

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PROMXMOM
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PROMXMOM 3/25/2012 9:57am
3/25/2012 9:57am
its easy for guys like chad to say that.they are on equipment that is capable of running top lap times.im sure if they jumped on some priveteers bike they would change there tone.put them all on egual bikes and see what happens
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JB 19
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JB 19 3/25/2012 10:00am
3/25/2012 10:00am
sbarrington314 wrote:
so one guy bitches about riders rolling around and now its a problem and needs solved? pffff
Well, its the reason he wasn't on the podium. He went flying off the track because a guy "rolling" around broke his rhythm. It had nothing to with Windham running him down like a wild dog.


Its really amazing that someone could become one of the best in the world at something with a whiny attitude like that.
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Roach
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Roach 3/25/2012 10:03am
3/25/2012 10:03am
Everybody bitches about lappers holding their line and getting in the way, but then when they slow down and roll around to stay out of the way they still bitch. Make up your mind.
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JB 19
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JB 19 3/25/2012 10:05am
3/25/2012 10:05am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2012 10:06am
.......
hartebreak
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hartebreak 3/25/2012 10:16am
3/25/2012 10:16am
Roach wrote:
Everybody bitches about lappers holding their line and getting in the way, but then when they slow down and roll around to stay out of the...
Everybody bitches about lappers holding their line and getting in the way, but then when they slow down and roll around to stay out of the way they still bitch. Make up your mind.
x1000
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SlowMoFo
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SlowMoFo 3/25/2012 10:23am
3/25/2012 10:23am
By that logic, 2-3 extra riders on the track won't make any difference.
Sherwood
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Sherwood 3/25/2012 10:28am
3/25/2012 10:28am
We can call it the 801% rule. If you're rolling around not jumping the triples and such you get black flagged.
Sherwood
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Sherwood 3/25/2012 10:29am
3/25/2012 10:29am
sbarrington314 wrote:
so one guy bitches about riders rolling around and now its a problem and needs solved? pffff
It's been a problem the entire year to the point they even brought it up at the riders meeting a couple races ago. Time for the AMA to step up and do what they said they would...
SteveS
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SteveS 3/25/2012 10:35am
3/25/2012 10:35am
It's clear that in SX 107% would be too restrictive. I don't fault Reed for naming the rule that way because that's how we know what he's talking about. But you could look at qualifying results over a season's time and come up with a pragmatic percentage to use. At the time Reed tweeted that, the fastest guys were running around 50 seconds or so. But there were one or two whose fastest lap was 20 seconds slower. I don't think we need to eliminate the guys who are doing a 55 or 56 second lap to the 50, but the 1:10 probably doesn't need to stay out there with everyone else.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/25/2012 11:11am
3/25/2012 11:11am
There are usually some REALLY good riders trying REALLY hard to be within 5-8 seconds of the Fastest Lap in their class...which seems to be where the cut-off usually is for getting into the Evening-Program on the 450's/on the "Longer Tracks" (The Top 40 riders that make it to the actual race program from afternoon practice/qualifying). Last-nite's gap was about 7.5 seconds, think.

Now, the real problem is some of the guys that (Only GOD knows how) made into an SX License...I mean some of the guys out there in the after-noon session can make you say, "WTF!?"

That's the Problem that I've seen.
knowitalloveragainnovice 3/25/2012 11:14am
3/25/2012 11:14am
SteveS wrote:
It's clear that in SX 107% would be too restrictive. I don't fault Reed for naming the rule that way because that's how we know what...
It's clear that in SX 107% would be too restrictive. I don't fault Reed for naming the rule that way because that's how we know what he's talking about. But you could look at qualifying results over a season's time and come up with a pragmatic percentage to use. At the time Reed tweeted that, the fastest guys were running around 50 seconds or so. But there were one or two whose fastest lap was 20 seconds slower. I don't think we need to eliminate the guys who are doing a 55 or 56 second lap to the 50, but the 1:10 probably doesn't need to stay out there with everyone else.
Reed is the guy who says practice times dont matter, and then he get's all happy when Fro talks about he get's faster through the day....... maybe he should just stick with that?

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