MX Sports Vet Class

todder
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Sw, WI, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 4:44pm
Why do the gurus at MX Sports call the only +30 Vet class, Vet B/C? Its full of Vet A racers! I just checked the results from a local area qualifier that I was planning to hit but didn't make, good thing. All the entries were local long time Vet A riders. Why not call it Vet C/Pro-Sport? That would make about as much sense as this. The whole Lorettas deal has very little credibilty anymore unless maybe in the Pee Wee classes.
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FLvet
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5/5/2008 6:39am
Why even have a C class championship? Make it all A and B classes only. C racers race local until they're ready for B.
kb450
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Anderson, SC, USA
5/5/2008 6:43am
Yea, the SE LL's Areas are full of ex A riders "SANDBAGGING" their way to LL's. Some people have no self respect!
P
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Greensboro, NC, USA
5/5/2008 6:50am
FLvet wrote:
Why even have a C class championship? Make it all A and B classes only. C racers race local until they're ready for B.
Because it's the Am. Championship.


P
Huckster
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5/5/2008 7:52am
I was all for bringing back a Vet B class but after seeing what happened last year, and seeing what they are letting happen this year, I think they should go back to having +30 be an Open class.

There is a rule in place, to my knowledge, that if you top 5 a B class you have to move up to A for the following year. However, this does not apply to the vet classes and that came straight from Ryan Holliday. So, last years winner and runner up are eligible to race Vet B again this year. That is a joke.

The Shop

mx317
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5/5/2008 8:15am
C class = $$$$$$$$$$$$
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
5/5/2008 8:24am Edited Date/Time 5/5/2008 8:33am
There shouldn't be any B or C classes at LL's. At the National level it all should be open skill, age classes, including the 125 and 250 classes. Having B and C classes at the Nationals is detrimental to the sport because the sandbagging trickles down to the local level and that hurts the overall ridership of the sport at the grassroots level. Without grassroots racing, this sport is dead.
JYZ566
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Saint Peters, MO, USA
5/5/2008 8:57am
CamP wrote:
There shouldn't be any B or C classes at LL's. At the National level it all should be open skill, age classes, including the 125 and...
There shouldn't be any B or C classes at LL's. At the National level it all should be open skill, age classes, including the 125 and 250 classes. Having B and C classes at the Nationals is detrimental to the sport because the sandbagging trickles down to the local level and that hurts the overall ridership of the sport at the grassroots level. Without grassroots racing, this sport is dead.
I think this would actually hurt grassroots racing and the national as a whole. How would someone ever get the speed to just go and qualify to ride the 125 open class? You have to have room to move up (ie c to b, and b to a). The AMA and MX sports just need to enforce it actually.

Accusing someone of sandbagging is kind of a joke, if they were fast enough to be competitive at the next level, they would be there. For instance, Dean Wilson blows away everyone in the B class at Glen Helen, and catches most of the pros running 30 min + 2 during a staggered moto, but then and goes and gets a top five at the World Mini GP. Is he sandbagging? No. What about Tommy Weeck? He got like 5 titles in texas this year, but didn't win the World Mini GP either. What about the A class, like Whartons, Larsen, etc...shouldn't they just be trying to get their pro license to hit up Villopoto, Stroupe, etc on the starting line? Nah, they all need to bide their time in the am ranks these days, to get sponsorships and get experience instead of just moving up like the guys of yesteryear did.
Tiki
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Fantasy
5/5/2008 9:19am
kb450 wrote:
Yea, the SE LL's Areas are full of ex A riders "SANDBAGGING" their way to LL's. Some people have no self respect!
Got a bit of news for you.

ALL Motocross is has sandbaggers. Its promoted in the sport. Why would it change at that level?

$10 Trophy is worth more then the honor of racing in a class that is faster then you and your self satisfaction that you did well.
5/5/2008 9:41am
That is unbelievable. I asked them if I could return in that class. I really did not care but why not battle for top 5 or so versus top 20 in a class with ex-pro's. They informed me that all the top 5 had to move out. That was fine with me if that was the rule but it cost me an eligible class since the +25 class is a wee too fast these days for me. So much misinformation. Oh well, too late now.
oldx
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5/5/2008 9:44am
Remember when we really wanted to just get fast enough to move up another class?
eurohero
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5/5/2008 10:13am
They should have an industry class for people that were ex-pros or ex amateur stars, people that have been at this for ever, then gave up the dream to work in moto and still race.
Vet B/C should be guys that have been riding for fun, maybe a race or two, but have always been at this level. This class is filled with guys that when late teens, early twenties, they were int/exp or even racing local pros. Even though they been off for a while, it comes back quick. This class will never be right.
They should do it by lap times. At an area qualifier, the A class should be the benchmark. If a rider is a certain percentage of time away from the next class lap times, up they go. Too many times, this class has 4-5 guys that are a second or two off Vet pro or even 450 Int, which is filled with kids that will soon be pro. Some of these vets are worse than psycho mini dads
1
5/5/2008 10:22am
oldx wrote:
Remember when we really wanted to just get fast enough to move up another class?
Kind of the way I see it..... now they all want to protest and cry about anyone who is faster that they are.
kb450
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5/5/2008 11:30am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:51pm

Your right! All sports have sandbagging issues not just motocross, however, I don't believe these guys/gals (whatever the sport) have any true self respect.

I know several guys that have held a pro license and can't outrun the top guys in 30B/C from last year. They continue to ride and race in the open vet classes. Props to them even if they are not finishing at the top; they have earned my respect.

The rules have been set by MX Sports and it is a little last to debate them. Maybe B/C class should be changed back to open maybe not? The fact of the matter is it is a B/C class and the rules state if you have ever held a pro license, raced as an “A” rider, or finished in top 5 last year you are ineligible to ride in this class. Not so difficult to understand.
5/8/2008 5:29am
Got an official answer through the email from Budd Little at MXsports today. Here it is:

"Sorry there was some confusion about this. The top 5 thing does apply to the
Vet B/C class. That means you are not permitted to ride Vet B/C this year. I
was under the impression that you had been notified by Andy Boyer from MX
Sports and/or Ryan Holliday from the AMA."

Hope this clears up the confusion on this issue. Im fine with this as long as they don't change thier minds. The only bummer is that it kills a class for me at least for another 4 years. Riding 2 classes at Loretta's keeps you on your toes all week. So unless I find some new speed at my age the +25 class will be an alternate at best. But, we will see at the regional....... who knows maybe I can take some Geritol right before the gate drops or something..... "The older I get the faster I was"
WhKnuckle
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5/8/2008 5:45am
CamP wrote:
There shouldn't be any B or C classes at LL's. At the National level it all should be open skill, age classes, including the 125 and...
There shouldn't be any B or C classes at LL's. At the National level it all should be open skill, age classes, including the 125 and 250 classes. Having B and C classes at the Nationals is detrimental to the sport because the sandbagging trickles down to the local level and that hurts the overall ridership of the sport at the grassroots level. Without grassroots racing, this sport is dead.
I agree completely. The local level sandbagging - which squelches rising talent - is, in my opinion, 100% caused by riders who want to go to the big Am nationals and don't want to get protested. Before there were such things as Am nationals, riders moved up as fast as they could to get into less crowded and more "sane" classes. The first time I won a 125 Intermediate race, I moved to Expert, got longer motos and raced with guys who were more predictable and less inclined to lose their minds in mid-moto.

A rider who wins a local C class is really at least a B rider and probably should be an A rider. And you go to a local race and there are 60 entries in 250F C class and 5 in 250F A class. It's stupid.
1
wardy
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5/8/2008 6:17am
stat-line wrote:
That is unbelievable. I asked them if I could return in that class. I really did not care but why not battle for top 5 or...
That is unbelievable. I asked them if I could return in that class. I really did not care but why not battle for top 5 or so versus top 20 in a class with ex-pro's. They informed me that all the top 5 had to move out. That was fine with me if that was the rule but it cost me an eligible class since the +25 class is a wee too fast these days for me. So much misinformation. Oh well, too late now.
No misinformation at all, last year they started with help getting that class in line. this year a large amount of riders tried again to qualify as B/C riders clearly knowing they belong in A. Top 5 rule has been around for years, just because AMA screwed up and decided not to advance the younger A riders per thier own advancement rules, doesn't mean they should completely ignore all the rules pertaining to that process. We voiced a conserted opinion to AMA staff about this as a local district about 2 months ago, and are keeping an eye on the process.

MX SPorts decides on what classes they wish to run at LL, the least that can be done is follow rules on the process.

Some one said they should take "ex-pros" and give them thier own class to race, and that is exactly what should happen.. They did away with Age/ B/C classes a few years ago because sandbagging, manipulatiing adults are a pita.

They came back with this class 30 b/c and had to know it would be a nightmare.
todder
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5/8/2008 6:20am Edited Date/Time 5/8/2008 6:27am
Wardy,check the results from your area qualifier at Byron. The top 3 all earned points in Vet A last year in D16. Last few years even.
5/8/2008 8:25am
stat-line wrote:
That is unbelievable. I asked them if I could return in that class. I really did not care but why not battle for top 5 or...
That is unbelievable. I asked them if I could return in that class. I really did not care but why not battle for top 5 or so versus top 20 in a class with ex-pro's. They informed me that all the top 5 had to move out. That was fine with me if that was the rule but it cost me an eligible class since the +25 class is a wee too fast these days for me. So much misinformation. Oh well, too late now.
wardy wrote:
No misinformation at all, last year they started with help getting that class in line. this year a large amount of riders tried again to qualify...
No misinformation at all, last year they started with help getting that class in line. this year a large amount of riders tried again to qualify as B/C riders clearly knowing they belong in A. Top 5 rule has been around for years, just because AMA screwed up and decided not to advance the younger A riders per thier own advancement rules, doesn't mean they should completely ignore all the rules pertaining to that process. We voiced a conserted opinion to AMA staff about this as a local district about 2 months ago, and are keeping an eye on the process.

MX SPorts decides on what classes they wish to run at LL, the least that can be done is follow rules on the process.

Some one said they should take "ex-pros" and give them thier own class to race, and that is exactly what should happen.. They did away with Age/ B/C classes a few years ago because sandbagging, manipulatiing adults are a pita.

They came back with this class 30 b/c and had to know it would be a nightmare.
I agree that as far as MX sports there has been no misinformation. The only misinformation was on this thread and I bit like the trout that I am. But anywhoooo, like I said, if the rule is applied to all then I am fine with it. I got my day in the sun and could not be happier. Since moving to the vet classes many moons ago I have always raced against EX-pro's both at regional events and national events and i never complained but It was very nice to be allowed to race at the top of my vet class and I am grateful to MXSports for allowing me that opportunity. I will forever envy the ex prosDry
Moto East Mag
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5/8/2008 8:58am
Sandbagging is a fact of life in the Vet classes. I don't worry so much about what classification some rider is...especially given the wildly different competitiveness of each district's A classes. One region's A rider could be another's C rider.
the best cure for sandbaggers (who will never go away)- ride faster and beat them.
Hattica
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5/8/2008 9:10am
todder wrote:
Wardy,check the results from your area qualifier at Byron. The top 3 all earned points in Vet A last year in D16. Last few years even.
We had been looking at those riders already and they have been removed from the class.

We're working hard on policing the Vet 30 B/C class. There was some controversy in the division last year that was out of our hands, but those things have a way of working themselves out.

Last year that class saw seven-rider freight-trains and produced a different winner in each moto. It will be a fair and competitive class again in 2008.

Please call us at the MX Sports office at 304.284.0101 or e-mail me at andy@mxsports.com if you feel like there is a rider we need to look at.
todder
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Sw, WI, USA
5/8/2008 10:01am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:53pm
Good deal,glad to see you guys are enforcing the rules.
Here is some real some baggin.
Jim Coons the Vet A rider from WI, (he was one of those that you tossed from Byron), was down in Lake Whitney last spring and won the Vet C/D class!!. If your going to bag, bag big!

Senior 40 + C/D - Class Finish Positions

Overall Nbr Name Moto 1 Moto 2
1st #323 JIM COONS - YAM VERONA, WI 3rd 1st
2nd #222 JAMES ANDERSON - KAW ARNOLD, MO 2nd 2nd
3rd #4 DAVID BIBBY - KTM MIDLAND, TX 5th 3rd
4th #900 KEVIN JONES - HON BEARDSTOWN, IL 4th 4th
5th #22 ADAM ENTICKNAP - HON LOMPOC, CA 1st 9th
6th #617 DON LARGE - HON BEARDSTOWN, IL 7th 5th
7th #305 HERMAN TEALE - YAM HOUSTON, TX 8th 6th
8th #8 ANDY KIMBRELL - YAM MISSOURI CITY, TX 9th 7th
9th #09 CORY FOSTER - HON LIBERTY HILL, TX 10th 8th
10th #417 MIKE CHRISTY - SUZ CAMBRIDGE, MN 11th 10th
11th #196 WARREN TYSON - YAM PHENIX CITY, AL 6th DNS


123
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5/8/2008 10:06am
Todd, that was 2007.
Huckster
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5/8/2008 10:52am
todder wrote:
Wardy,check the results from your area qualifier at Byron. The top 3 all earned points in Vet A last year in D16. Last few years even.
Hattica wrote:
We had been looking at those riders already and they have been removed from the class. We're working hard on policing the Vet 30 B/C class...
We had been looking at those riders already and they have been removed from the class.

We're working hard on policing the Vet 30 B/C class. There was some controversy in the division last year that was out of our hands, but those things have a way of working themselves out.

Last year that class saw seven-rider freight-trains and produced a different winner in each moto. It will be a fair and competitive class again in 2008.

Please call us at the MX Sports office at 304.284.0101 or e-mail me at andy@mxsports.com if you feel like there is a rider we need to look at.
hey Andy, how come they didn't make the top 5 finishers from last year move up to A?
Hattica
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Welcome, NC, USA
5/8/2008 11:14am
todder wrote:
Wardy,check the results from your area qualifier at Byron. The top 3 all earned points in Vet A last year in D16. Last few years even.
Hattica wrote:
We had been looking at those riders already and they have been removed from the class. We're working hard on policing the Vet 30 B/C class...
We had been looking at those riders already and they have been removed from the class.

We're working hard on policing the Vet 30 B/C class. There was some controversy in the division last year that was out of our hands, but those things have a way of working themselves out.

Last year that class saw seven-rider freight-trains and produced a different winner in each moto. It will be a fair and competitive class again in 2008.

Please call us at the MX Sports office at 304.284.0101 or e-mail me at andy@mxsports.com if you feel like there is a rider we need to look at.
Huckster wrote:
hey Andy, how come they didn't make the top 5 finishers from last year move up to A?
The top five from the Vet B/C class in 2007 are not allowed to Compete in the class in 2008 and beyond.

FLvet
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5/8/2008 11:20am Edited Date/Time 5/8/2008 11:21am
FLvet wrote:
Why even have a C class championship? Make it all A and B classes only. C racers race local until they're ready for B.
P wrote:
Because it's the Am. Championship.


P
D6 in PA only had A or B. So where was thier chance for one in C? Some
places have D where's thiers? Kick the C's to the curb and bring back +
50.
wardy
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5/8/2008 12:36pm
todder wrote:
Wardy,check the results from your area qualifier at Byron. The top 3 all earned points in Vet A last year in D16. Last few years even.
yep and have already sent those names to holiday he is to remove them. we have caught in this region at least 2-3 per event!
wardy
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5/8/2008 12:39pm
glad to see you in here reading the posts on that stuff andy. I have sent the list to Ryan a few times this season, not to be a pita, but it should help with the championship event if there is no A riders in it and find out later.

sc961
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5/8/2008 12:44pm
oldx wrote:
Remember when we really wanted to just get fast enough to move up another class?
Yes, I was there.

Those days are gone..
5/8/2008 1:32pm
todder wrote:
Wardy,check the results from your area qualifier at Byron. The top 3 all earned points in Vet A last year in D16. Last few years even.
Hattica wrote:
We had been looking at those riders already and they have been removed from the class. We're working hard on policing the Vet 30 B/C class...
We had been looking at those riders already and they have been removed from the class.

We're working hard on policing the Vet 30 B/C class. There was some controversy in the division last year that was out of our hands, but those things have a way of working themselves out.

Last year that class saw seven-rider freight-trains and produced a different winner in each moto. It will be a fair and competitive class again in 2008.

Please call us at the MX Sports office at 304.284.0101 or e-mail me at andy@mxsports.com if you feel like there is a rider we need to look at.

I have been a little timid to even say anything about this class last year because so many people are so up in arms over it. BUT What Andy said is exactly right. Last year's class was an excellent job by MX sports. Once the one rider (regardless of opinions) was no longer in the picture it was a dog eat dog fight to the end. I should know I won it with a 2,2,4. I never complained about the one rider either. That decision for him to race was his and the ama, NOT MXSPORTS! If he would have finished the week and I finished 2nd overall I would have been thrilled. Honestly, I don't think I could duplicate the victory even if I was allowed to return in the class and defend the title. The competition was good and trust me it was crowded in the front. Mx sports has tried to give some of us a class that will respect what we are... Weekend warriors. If all goes well then I will see everyone again but in the 35 class and then go brag that I was on the same line as Walker, May, Dubach and whoever else that worked harder at thier profession than I did on my sport.

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