Chase Exclusive

8tensolutions
Posts
3580
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
6 hours ago
CPan wrote:

Genuinly asking here. What is so special about a factory transmission that a good machine shop couldn’t make one? 

The R&D that goes into it a major part.  Any machine shop that had the right materials and tooling to make the pieces could theoretically "make" it, but engineers have to design it first.  Mitch had a shop in Europe that was making transmission pieces a long time ago, but it is a very intricately engineered part of the bike and not even remotely simple.  

2
mxaniac
Posts
696
Joined
9/9/2019
Location
Airway Heights, WA, USA
6 hours ago
CPan wrote:

Genuinly asking here. What is so special about a factory transmission that a good machine shop couldn’t make one? 

DonM wrote:

Tighter tolorences and and different ratios, typically taller first and second gears so the bike will pull longer in each. 

NotTheStig wrote:
Absolutely zero reason a “good machine shop” couldn’t hit or exceed factory tolerances on gears. The cutting of the splines to fit onto the countershafts will...

Absolutely zero reason a “good machine shop” couldn’t hit or exceed factory tolerances on gears. The cutting of the splines to fit onto the countershafts will require a little more specialized of tooling. Ratios are just math, nothing substantially special there. A bigger piece would be material selection and heat treating, which isn’t trivial but not insurmountable either. But the thing is, if it fails it’s often gonna be catastrophic. Factory teams have the resources to properly design and test, which equates to big $$$ if you have to sub out the work. 

Quadlock could also go to an established transmission/gear company like Pankl or Xtrac for example and have them do the leg work, but like I said that’s $$$

I thought about this too, might be a liability issue. The factories probably do rigid testing and have some base data on what works. A satellite team might need a year of testing to reduce risk enough to deploy.

I still think once it had been designed, a multitude of shops could produce it. If Honda wants Chase to have a chance to succeed, they just need to share information.

1
Sandusky26
Posts
3546
Joined
7/28/2021
Location
Eastern, NC, USA
5 hours ago
CPan wrote:

Genuinly asking here. What is so special about a factory transmission that a good machine shop couldn’t make one? 

OwenJakes wrote:
Nothing except the ratios but I think the big part is having access to the right data and measurements in order to even make it. I'm surprised...

Nothing except the ratios but I think the big part is having access to the right data and measurements in order to even make it. 

I'm surprised we have never seen anyone make alternate internal transmission parts on a serious scale, like pro circuit. 

Pro Circuit sold transmissions for the 04 KX250F for around 5 grand.

ando
Posts
4635
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth, AU
2 hours ago
CPan wrote:

Genuinly asking here. What is so special about a factory transmission that a good machine shop couldn’t make one? 

DonM wrote:

Tighter tolorences and and different ratios, typically taller first and second gears so the bike will pull longer in each. 

NotTheStig wrote:
Absolutely zero reason a “good machine shop” couldn’t hit or exceed factory tolerances on gears. The cutting of the splines to fit onto the countershafts will...

Absolutely zero reason a “good machine shop” couldn’t hit or exceed factory tolerances on gears. The cutting of the splines to fit onto the countershafts will require a little more specialized of tooling. Ratios are just math, nothing substantially special there. A bigger piece would be material selection and heat treating, which isn’t trivial but not insurmountable either. But the thing is, if it fails it’s often gonna be catastrophic. Factory teams have the resources to properly design and test, which equates to big $$$ if you have to sub out the work. 

Quadlock could also go to an established transmission/gear company like Pankl or Xtrac for example and have them do the leg work, but like I said that’s $$$

Lots of unknowns - exact dimensions, dimensional tolerances, fit tolerances, materials spec, hardness, surface finish specs, gear tooth profiles etc.

Could probably reverse engineer something close but it would take a lot of testing and trials to make sure it’s good enough.   

Who wants to buy transmission parts when the functionality and reliability have question marks over them?  

3

The Shop

truck
Posts
4118
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
Louisville, KY, USA
2 hours ago
DonM wrote:

Tighter tolorences and and different ratios, typically taller first and second gears so the bike will pull longer in each. 

NotTheStig wrote:
Absolutely zero reason a “good machine shop” couldn’t hit or exceed factory tolerances on gears. The cutting of the splines to fit onto the countershafts will...

Absolutely zero reason a “good machine shop” couldn’t hit or exceed factory tolerances on gears. The cutting of the splines to fit onto the countershafts will require a little more specialized of tooling. Ratios are just math, nothing substantially special there. A bigger piece would be material selection and heat treating, which isn’t trivial but not insurmountable either. But the thing is, if it fails it’s often gonna be catastrophic. Factory teams have the resources to properly design and test, which equates to big $$$ if you have to sub out the work. 

Quadlock could also go to an established transmission/gear company like Pankl or Xtrac for example and have them do the leg work, but like I said that’s $$$

ando wrote:
Lots of unknowns - exact dimensions, dimensional tolerances, fit tolerances, materials spec, hardness, surface finish specs, gear tooth profiles etc.Could probably reverse engineer something close but...

Lots of unknowns - exact dimensions, dimensional tolerances, fit tolerances, materials spec, hardness, surface finish specs, gear tooth profiles etc.

Could probably reverse engineer something close but it would take a lot of testing and trials to make sure it’s good enough.   

Who wants to buy transmission parts when the functionality and reliability have question marks over them?  

There's places that do all of this for car racing transmissions, surely a lot of the knowledge and skill translates? 

1
RDnutz
Posts
1155
Joined
2/13/2021
Location
Dolores, CO, USA
1 hour ago
DonM wrote:

Tighter tolorences and and different ratios, typically taller first and second gears so the bike will pull longer in each. 

NotTheStig wrote:
Absolutely zero reason a “good machine shop” couldn’t hit or exceed factory tolerances on gears. The cutting of the splines to fit onto the countershafts will...

Absolutely zero reason a “good machine shop” couldn’t hit or exceed factory tolerances on gears. The cutting of the splines to fit onto the countershafts will require a little more specialized of tooling. Ratios are just math, nothing substantially special there. A bigger piece would be material selection and heat treating, which isn’t trivial but not insurmountable either. But the thing is, if it fails it’s often gonna be catastrophic. Factory teams have the resources to properly design and test, which equates to big $$$ if you have to sub out the work. 

Quadlock could also go to an established transmission/gear company like Pankl or Xtrac for example and have them do the leg work, but like I said that’s $$$

ando wrote:
Lots of unknowns - exact dimensions, dimensional tolerances, fit tolerances, materials spec, hardness, surface finish specs, gear tooth profiles etc.Could probably reverse engineer something close but...

Lots of unknowns - exact dimensions, dimensional tolerances, fit tolerances, materials spec, hardness, surface finish specs, gear tooth profiles etc.

Could probably reverse engineer something close but it would take a lot of testing and trials to make sure it’s good enough.   

Who wants to buy transmission parts when the functionality and reliability have question marks over them?  

I'd make sure the shop had absolutely nothing to do with working on Triumph trannys too 🤔

1
Beta480RX
Posts
614
Joined
12/30/2025
Location
Helena, MT, USA
1 hour ago Edited Date/Time 1 hour ago

Moto-Gears in the Czech Republic is just one manufacturer of transmissions. Send them the specs, and they will make it for you. If I ever get around to building a KX500 the transmission for it will come from them.

HRC used to produce their own wide ratio kit for CR500s, there was an aftermarket copy available through I think IMS for a little bit, and now someone in Canada may be trying to make them now.

"Back in the day" there were multiple places building custom transmissions for TRX250Rs.

Getting the right steel and the right heat treatments done are the easy part, it's the dimensions that take the time. But with modern CAD it wouldn't be that difficult to reverse engineer and then produce any modified gear set someone would want if they are willing to spend the $.

I've built my fair share of non stock transmissions, but so far they have been all KTM group bikes or Beta. Have been able to swap gears around from other models to get where I wanted to go, although my current Beta project required some machining to an individual gear to get it all working right.

1
ToolMaker
Posts
10505
Joined
11/19/2011
Location
Escondido, CA, USA
13 minutes ago
CPan wrote:

Genuinly asking here. What is so special about a factory transmission that a good machine shop couldn’t make one? 

First, you have to know what you want. Then making 1 of something is very very expensive. Let's say 1 gear. Maybe it takes 2 hours in documentation, .5 hrs to order and receive material. .5hours to place on wire edm, but only .5 hrs to actually cut. Then heat treat, then grind to perfection. And you still don't know if it's ideal. Maybe you guessed wrong ratio? And now you only have 1 part but need all the parts. And not all machine shops have high precision equipment.

twotwosix
Posts
2254
Joined
9/29/2016
Location
USA
4 minutes ago Edited Date/Time Just now
Would Honda rather have an unhappy Chase saying the 2027 is not a good bike, or a happy Chase winning a few races on last years...

Would Honda rather have an unhappy Chase saying the 2027 is not a good bike, or a happy Chase winning a few races on last years bike  with 2027 plastic and 90% of the people watching thinking its a 2027?

 

Lets assume that Jett and Hunter will be riding well and both winning races.  So then Honda gets to show people they are so good that they can still win on last years bike and beat all the other new models, and their new model can win and beat the other brands new models even more often.  Not an idea thing for Chase to beat the new bike on the old bike. But better than riding worse on the new bike than he rode on the Kawai and being unhappy and saying the bike is the problem still. And a lack of parts may result in a similar year to what he had on the Kawasaki. A couple great rides and a bunch of not as great rides.  

 

 The 26 is not a lot different from the  last CRF that Chase rode. He was loving that bike towards the end and that was the bike he won the title on. Maybe the 27 just fits Chase really well and he's just a Honda guy like Prado is a KTM guy. And he's OK with not having as many options for tuning the bike.   I'm just saying that my opinion is that the 2026 gives him the best shot at being comfortable quickly and having a lot  more access to parts so that he's able to have the bike working how he wants at as many tracks as possible.

I’m not a Honda fanboy, but for professional racing, I believe the 2027 CRF450 is just that good. Herlings and Vialle have praised it all year. Chase is most likely looking to put himself on the best bike out there and this new Honda is a massive step forward from the current 450 machines. I believe we will see many Pros choosing this bike over the next two years. It’s looking like it does everything very very well. A 2027 CRF450 with some basic motor work, a GET or Vortex ECU and A-kit Supercross suspension will more than likely be everything Chase has been wishing for and a vast departure from the outgoing KX450 he has spent a year on. 

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