E Bicycle?

I have a Canyon on Spectral CF7 with the bigger battery.  They had a 750 and 900( on frames size M-XL) battery  back when I got mine in 2023 or 2023. They have Bosch motors now too. I haven't looked to see what batteries they offer now.  They did issue a stop ride when batteries were cracking. They replaced mine and paid me about $200 per month that I was without a battery. That ended up between November and around the end of February I got my new battery so it wasn't bad.   My  old battery wasn't cracked  so for now I'll hold onto it. I have a shimano EP801 with 85nm and the Specialized/browse motors with 90nm  that I have ridden do feel noticeable more powerful. But the shimano motor feels more like  its me.  I haven't been able to get into a loop out situation on it like I could on the Browse bikes I've ridden.  It feels like the Brows keep assisting  after You stop , while the Shimano stops sooner and feels more natural to me. 

 I find myself running out of gear as I get close to the 20 MPH  mark . I'm pedaling way too fast for technical offroad with the current gearing. The bike I rode with the browse motor  was able to cruise at just over the assist level and not be spinning at 1000 rpm. I'm gonna get a bigger chainring at some point. I think my gearing is on the low side and that may be a lot of it too. I really should just stay riding slower for now. The bike itself is amazing and the brakes and setup are super comfortable for me and feel more moto like than any other MTB's I've had. I have been looking at being a dealer for Commencal and they have some bikes with the Avinox motor's that have 150NM of torque and 1300 watts  . They start around $8k and go up.  All the Commencal frames are aluminum though so if You want a carbon frame they are not an option .  

 The canyons are direct to consumer though so  unless You know somebody with one Your not going to be able to test ride one. They do offer free returns inside 30 days and a 6 year warrantee on all of the Canyon branded parts. You can get the same warranty on bikes in their outlet area that have some deep discounts. Sometimes close to half off.  Just make sure You read the details on those bikes. They can be anything from last years model brand new and unridden, to press bikes that have been a  demo bike and have some miles on them or in between. If You buy a new bike and return it, if You ride it at all it goes into the outlet bikes.  

 Acerbis has a stand that's not too expensive that is great for  holding your bike up and doing basic stuff . But  I want a real work stand that can hold the bike with both wheels off. 

 You might wanna try a hard tail out like I saw one post suggest. Riding an Ebike with 150mm of rear travel with a dead battery feels like I'm riding through deep sand. I never ride without some sort of assist because of that. I know that its not all the suspension steeling my energy and a lot comes from the motor. But if Your going to be using it on the road a lot more than the trails, a hard tail would climb better on the street. And I find it a little easier to ride wheelies on a hard tail. For me, I would stick to a full suspension  unless I was  only hitting a trail here and there and putting tons of street time in. I ride 90% off road and only on the road when exploring new areas. So  there was never a question for me.  

 One thing I've wondered about is the DJI connection and the Avinox motors.  The government has been cracking down on the DJI cameras  as well as the drones and even started to go after the DJI clones.  DJI started Avinox to be  their brand  for their Ebike stuff. But they are still the parent company . If only the DJI drones were impacted by the new laws that would be one thing. But the cameras are also  getting wrapped up in the ban. And after the current inventories are sold, they may not be available again legally in the US.  People have had their drones seized by customs after sending them to be repaired by DJI and customs seizes them when they come back into the country.  And has spread to the DJI clone drones and cameras.

 I worry about buying one of the bikes with an Avinox motor in it and then the government deciding its a threat to national security and being unable to have warranty work done to it.  Hopefully that never happens. But there is real talk about actually making the DJIO drones illegal to operate at all.  That makes more sense than the  way they have been dealing with them if there is a real threat, I would think they would be totally banned. Not just new models blocked from being certified.  I'm not super familiar with how involved the FCC is with electric motors, but if they have any part in allowing Ebike motors into the US, than there is a potential for an issue at some point if things continue the way they are headed with more and more crackdowns on DJI products and products that use DJI hardware .   I feel like its unlikely to happen to the ebikes. But I didn't think they would go after the Cameras and mic's too either.  Maybe its separate enough that it will be fine.  I know a guy that was ringing specialized levo's and has changed to a bike with  the Avinox motor and loves it. But for cruising around You really don't need all that power . The bikes that come with Avinox motors tend to be $8k and up .       

$20-25K in bikes? 

If I include my pedal bike it’s about 40k. It’s a sickness 😆 For how little used bikes are going for it’s much more fun to keep the older ones, especially if you really like them and they are in great shape. 

My 2026 Turbo Levo SL has Specialized SL Custom RX Trail Tuned motor, 50Nm power, 320W power + Specialized SL1-320, fully integrated, 320Wh Battery. My buddy is a longtime Specialized MTB owner and got his EMTB 8 years ago tells me I have the new gear drive motor and his has the old belt drive- but I have not confirmed anywhere.

I have not experienced anything close to a loopout and it is very sensitive/intuitive to applying assist that is seemless. Also, it is supposedly limited to 20mph but I've had it up to 38mph on level concrete trail riding and never felt any limiting but the assist faded away as speed increased. I'm still new to all this but it seems the bike fits my needs perfectly and was just under $6k OTD.

They're not cheap. But the $ spent per hour of riding is way better than any motorcycle I've owned. I'm about to go on ride # 4 for this week. I go semi early, usually 8ish, go sprint for an hour an 15 minutes or so and do 12-15 miles of single track. Then I'll be back home, showered, fed, and back to my daily chores before 10:30.  🙂 

once I left the workforce the whole early riser programming in my body disappeared fast 😅

I'm going to disagree on this.  I have recently acquired the Turbo Levo, and have mostly only ridden it in the lowest power ECO mode for about 50 miles a week.  In fact, I went in and adjusted the power down so that the motor mostly only offsets the extra weight on the bike.  That being said, the bike is very fast and planted Because of the weight.  I use it in tight woods and trails.  Why do I need the motor, you say?  Merging into traffic to get to my trail, and using the power on the last climb of my ride when I have burned my legs and/or lungs out.  Both of these give me the confidence I need to make me get out of bed and ride first thing every day.  Oh... and I do put it on purely Turbo Mode and run with my dogs occasionally and its pure joy for both me and my dogs.  

I had not either until this morning.  I ride down a ten foot vertical bluff every day on my standard 10mile loop ride.  I did it backwards today, and when I got to the bluff, I slowed down, put it in turbo (from eco), and jammed it to the base to climb the bluff, once the bike was halfway up (second pedal iteration), front end came up and freaked me out.  Luckily by the time I let off, my front tire was over the top and was able to finish it out.

I do think with experience its not sketchy at all though, I just need to expand what I think it possible a bit, just like on a dirt bike.

Maybe expand your thinking there instead of being so negative? I happen to have "Dead Butt Syndrome", atrophied hammys and decades old back problems with disks and alignment needing attention. I also had my knee replaced 13 months ago. Once I rehabbed the knee and spent time in the gym with exercises PT gave me previously for my back issues, I decided it was time to clean up the 30-year-old Miata MTB and see where I was at. Still can't make it up slight grades in my neighborhood without walking and no trails, just like when I parked the bike. My buddy had been pushing me for years to try an E-MTB and I had my Ah-Ha! moment- maybe just a little extra help on the grades would allow me to ride again and help build lower body back too!  I Had $ set aside anyways and set out to purchase the best fit for my goals. Turns out it was EXACTLY what I needed to work my glutes, Hammies, and even quads and the new knee. I sometimes ride with the computer turned off to gauge my progress and spend majority of my time in ECO or Trail which is the default. Perfectly matched my expectations and fun factor is the bonus.

E-Bikes do not suck, but some people's attitudes do!

Oohh I’m probably the guy gt80rider and the analog / non e-bike guys hate. 😂. I’ll occasionally use trail mode on the flats or slight inclines if I’m trying to go further than 22-25 miles. But for the most part I’m in boost, and we’re in full race mode. I know the analog guys don’t like getting passed on uphills, that’s a fact. And I get it, it’s like surfing a short board and then guys with longboards show up and start catching more waves than them. Some are cool and friendly and will pull over to let me go by, and some will ignore the fact I’m behind them and block and move over on wider sections to make sure I don’t pass them. They usually seem pretty miserable compared to the guys loving life on the pedal assist bikes. I’m talking class 1, no throttles. Those guys are always smiling and happy.  Our crew treats the rides more like a moto than an endurance race.  Here’s this mornings quick putt. Started with a lap around the "Plump" track, then 8 plus miles of singletrack. I was done by 10am.  I love this bike and luckily for me I don't give a shit about the guys who don't like emtb's. I could not care any less what they think. (Is that the correct term Falcon ?)  If they ever want to question me about it I tell them I'm 67, show them my x-rays, then tell them to get off my lawn and go away, I have some clouds to yell at.😆

https://strava.app.link/cLGdCtVaN5b

The lady and I made two trips down the Bentonville this year and rented e-MTBs(Santa Cruz Bullit Carbon MX) both times. Absolutely no regrets. Damn those things are fun!
 

My bike can be set up to 28mph. But to do a race I have to put it at 20mph, and when it goes beyond, it is like hitting a wall. I think the best bike is one that can smooth the transition to pedaling past 20mph. That’s where the Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, Aventon motors etc, are good at.

MY buddy that got the Levo 4 says his bike hits a brick wall pedaling exactly at 20 MPH. We traded bikes and he thinks mine may have been SW modified or something. I only got as far as using the app to register the bike for warranty purposes, but not reviewed or changed any settings for MPH, % power in modes, etc. In due time...

This seems to be true.  In fact, I am pretty sure that its lower than 20 for eco mode.  When the boost stops, it seems the drag starts a little.  It could just be perspective, I have not yet decided.  I head down a big hill to get to my trail, and my garmin says I can hit 30mph on my Giant Stance.  This bike coasts smoothly, similar speed, but when I get on the pedals at the bottom (about 25mph) its very difficult to keep up that speed, whereas it does not seem to be difficult on my old bike.  There is a 'overrun' tuning parameter that may explain this phenomena, but, like you, I have not tinkered with the app shy of just turning everything down to minimize general assist,  I'll have to look further at this.

Are the bikes both geared the same?? I feel a similar feeling on my Shimano motor VS when I rode a bike with a specialized/browse motor.

I'm hoping a gearing change will help mine . On the Specialized/browse bikes I can cruise just past the point the assist cuts off  and the gearing seems matched very well to the cadence I'm pedaling at the cut off point.  Thats really the worst part of the bike. I love it otherwise 

honestly, I don't know. I'm really new to this and not getting to spend the kind of time I need with it yet. Big list of unfinished projects around house before Winter and heatwaves not helping... I'm only at the point of dialing in comfort stuff like better seat and needing to cut down handlebars before next test ride.

 I'm feeling the opposite on my Shimano . But I really think it might be the gearing being way too low.  I love the feel of the way the power comes on over the rest of the range. Feels more natural than the specialized bikes I rode. But its difficult to get past the point that the assist cuts off.  I'll be pedaling way higher cadence than I am comfortable doing on trails, to get to that 20MPH area in the highest gear the bike has. Its strange.  And on the Specialized/brose bikes I could cruise along at 23-24 on  the same flat dirt road.  So its not just me being a lazy out of shape fat guy.  

 I've only ridden bikes with specialized/brose motors other than my  bike and those bikes did not have that wall feeling. Even on the eco mode.  I noticed my spell check helped me misspell brose.  But they are the same motors as the specialized motors . They make or were making the motors for specialized as of a few years ago when I bought my bike.  

 There are a bunch of ways to increase the speed on the Specialized/brose motor bikes.   Again, on bikes from 2023 and before, this could be different on the current ones.  But they have gears that trick the bike into thinking its going slower so You can double or triple the speed it cuts off at. And they are also easier to tune with aftermarket apps . The Shimano motors and controls are more of  a process to tune. I haven't bothered since I need to play with my gearing anyway.

I've seen people have issues with every brand.  When I was really researching and looking I saw fewer issues with Specialized motors than Shimano and I was looking for bikes with a brose motor because of that , and the Bosch had just come out , great motor but I was worried about getting the first generation. I had seen people having issues with getting Shimano motors fixed. And not really anything bad about the Specialized or Brose motors. 

lolFull on years and years of racing MtBs and moto. Sold my enduro race bike about a year after buying my light weight long low long travel 170mm and slack e enduro bike.Still have and race my DH bike (analog) I ride my e bike five days a week all over the country. Love love love my (transition relay PNW). E bikes rule except if you are a Lycra wearing XC guy. 
I’m not a big battery heavy 50+lb bike guy. Mine is 46lb with heavy DH tires, spring forks and shock, huge brakes and heavy SRAM electric XX1 drivetrain. My bike feels like a normal enduro bike going down hill, no drag in the motor. Just makes climbing a gnarly DH style bike a breeze. 

I wouldn’t buy a specialized e bike, out dated and super ugly, have new stuff about to come out. Trek is teetering on going out of business, those old legacy brands are not where it’s at. Buying a new E bike is a crap shoot right now, but dang it they are so fun it’s worth it. I’m waiting  on the bikes with the new TQ motor. 

Its strange to see how wide bars have gotten. I was really into MTB's in the 90's as a kid and I destroyed my foot racing MX in November of 2000. Took many years of surgery after surgery, infections,  and so on.  I wanted to get back into MTB's a few years ago and figured an E bike was the way to go since it would help me be able to ride far and fast enough to not get frustrated or board as I got back into shape.  And I was surprised at how wide the bars are on bikes these days.   The trails back then seems more narrow and the new bars would never fit on the old trails I rode. But around me, all the trails are wider and maintained better than they ever were. 

 Back then I almost never saw another person out on the state forests when I was riding. Now there is always  a bunch of people no matter what time I've gone. Which really hasn't been as often as I would like. But its wild to see how much stayed the same and what changed. I'll be happy for some cooler weather myself. My lawn seems to have grown a foot the last week. And giant mushrooms all over the place. I feel like I'm playing super Mario brothers as I jump over the mushrooms and the mower explodes them.  Good luck on the projects and have fun riding the bike.  I was gonna cut my bars , but I figured I would just run them and see how they are. I like them for where I've ridden it. But they seem cartoonishly wide.  

They are designed to be cut to fit. 6’3” dude needs wider bars than 5’9” dude. 

you should have seen moto in the 1970s. Standard width was 36" on all new bikes and most replacement bars. Seems that somewhere approaching 2000 when I returned after decades away my bikes came with 33 or even 31" bars new. That's what was on my 2003 KDX220 new and then more recently my 2022 Beta 300. Totally used to that... Fast forward to my new EMTB purchase and they are right around 31-31.5" stock. People said I should cut them to like 28" but I wanted to start out with stock since it was close to my Beta. I found out the stock bars made my riding a little twitchy- like wherever my eyes looked my hands and the bars would follow. Decided to use an old dirt bike blind test and found I had an extra inch in neutral position with hand drop test so going to take an inch off each side before I ride it again.

They  still  start out a lot wider than they used to.  I don't know what the current way of measuring bars is, but it used to be based off of the width of Your shoulders . And cut the bar to the same. 

 It must be different now. because they all start out way wider than they ever were back then.  I'm 6'9" and  used to run  my bars about a half inch shorter than they said was the correct size for me back then.   And I feel like I would be cutting 2 or more  inches off the current bars to get close to what used to be the correct width.  Top tube lengths and chainstay lengths have changed  , I just figured the wider bars were a part of the modern fit of a bike.

I too have a Specialized Tero, most comfortable bike I have ever owned.  Sad part, Specialized doesn't make them anymore. 

the new bars I bought have cut lines painted on each end at 1" increments. The shop offered to cut them for me if I wanted- before I even got out the door to take them home and try them 🙃

I used the old blind drop test I learned from a Dirt Bike or MXA mag article in early 1970s I think.

sit on your bike in neutral riding position. raise your arms to basically shoulder height and close your eyes. Then allow your hands to drop freely to the handlebars. I always repeat a couple times. This test I landed about 1" inside the end of the bars several times. Taking 1" off each end was what many people suggested. I just didn't want to cut $80.00 handlebars without trying as is and then when I was pretty sure 1" wasn't going to ruin them.

YMMV

MTB guys probably not generating enough advertising clicks on Moto vendors ads over there.

 @gsxrcr28 - I'm intrigued by the Levo SL...I have a new Aventon Current and a Levo 4 Expert and love them both (except for the weight) BUT I can get a nice deal on a new Levo SL (I have a problem passing up a good deal - lol)..... I ride a lot of tight, slower tech trails and think the Levo SL or a Heckler SL would be nice for shorter rides with my non-ebike friends

fyi the Levo SL has been discontinued and replaced by Levo 4. If you can find an SL grab it. My local specialized dealer had the S3 I eventually bought and an S5 & S6 left. I came to him asking about getting an SL advertised in Washington or from any warehouse inventory, etc. He talked to his district rep who checked inventory across the whole United States and found NONE. This was back in May.

fwiw: Specialized spec sheet claims 44 lbs for SL