Last night's Presidential address

matt.3150
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San Jose, CA, USA
7/24/2026 5:35pm
borg wrote:
I don't have any personal experience with college. But from listening to people who have been kicked out or cancelled, the environment does not tolerate dissent...

I don't have any personal experience with college. But from listening to people who have been kicked out or cancelled, the environment does not tolerate dissent on certain subjects. That is the essence of indoctrination. Not all colleges are like that but what do I know. The closest I've ever been to one is dropping my daughter off.  Choosing a political party is quite a different thing. Unless you are still young and just take up whatever your parents are. I would call that indoctrination too. TM is a little long in the tooth to be indoctrinated. I think he's heard a viewpoint or two.

matt.3150 wrote:

So your saying an environment that doesn’t tolerate dissent is then indoctrination? Right?

borg wrote:
indoctrination/inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/Indoctrination is the act of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs, ideas, or rules without questioning them. It relies on...
indoctrination
/inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/
Indoctrination is the act of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs, ideas, or rules without questioning them. It relies on repetition and discourages critical thinking or opposing views. [1, 2]
 
Key Features of Indoctrination
  • No Questions Allowed: Learners cannot ask questions, doubt, or test the ideas being taught.
  • One-Sided View: Only one side of a story or belief system is shared, while other choices are hidden or called wrong.

So, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. 
 

Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable 

accepting claims from a trusted politician without asking for evidence 

Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal 


These are all signs of indoctrination 

Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate.   

2
1
borg
Posts
6918
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Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
7/24/2026 6:07pm
matt.3150 wrote:

So your saying an environment that doesn’t tolerate dissent is then indoctrination? Right?

borg wrote:
indoctrination/inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/Indoctrination is the act of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs, ideas, or rules without questioning them. It relies on...
indoctrination
/inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/
Indoctrination is the act of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs, ideas, or rules without questioning them. It relies on repetition and discourages critical thinking or opposing views. [1, 2]
 
Key Features of Indoctrination
  • No Questions Allowed: Learners cannot ask questions, doubt, or test the ideas being taught.
  • One-Sided View: Only one side of a story or belief system is shared, while other choices are hidden or called wrong.

So, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

matt.3150 wrote:
So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false.  Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable accepting claims...

So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. 
 

Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable 

accepting claims from a trusted politician without asking for evidence 

Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal 


These are all signs of indoctrination 

Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate.   

"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "

I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking about 30 years ago and responding to a post by soggy that referenced that era. 

"Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable"

Boy, you really got the wrong guy here. I can't stand that sonofabitch.

"Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal "

I have no loyalty to any group, party or politician. There are a few on this forum that will attest to that.

"Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate. " 

While there is a history of left wing college groups that have been able to keep conservative speakers from speaking, things might actually be improving in that regard. We can both cheer for more open debate.

 

7/24/2026 6:08pm
ToolMaker wrote:
The chicken or the egg question. Were they indoctrinated in college or after they got on the beat? I'm going with college. And for any of...

The chicken or the egg question. Were they indoctrinated in college or after they got on the beat? I'm going with college. And for any of you that have had kids go off to college and seen the transformation..............

TM

Do You consider becoming a hardcore Trump supporter, or Republican  also being indoctrinated?    The extreme ends of both parties both have their own crainess.  I...

Do You consider becoming a hardcore Trump supporter, or Republican  also being indoctrinated?  

  The extreme ends of both parties both have their own crainess.  I would say that I see it from people  in both parties.   

 

ToolMaker wrote:

Please define what is a hard core Trump supporter? Or Republican?

TM

I think that answers my question . Unless your question is a distraction, to question how I define each. 

 My definition doesn't matter for my question.  It was more of a can you see  it exists  in both parties or do you think it doesn't.  I'm not implying that a republican is the same thing as a Hardcore trump supporter.  

 

 Personally, I think anybody who is loyal to the leader of their party , over what they believe is best for the country is not being a Republican or Democrat. They are being disloyal to the people who elected them whichever party they belong to.   

 

To me, a hard core Trump supporter is one who has been indoctrinated, I'm not defining all Trump supporters that way,  not all Trump supporters support him seemingly  blindly . 

   And a Republican is just a person who identifies more with the republican party. Whether that aligns with current or conventional republican values or the past .       

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byke
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7/24/2026 6:39pm

I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how weird people get. What does change is the ways that people attempt to implement conservative ideologies into our political system and that group of people are republicans. Since trump has completely taken over the republican party, I don't see it as maga vs non-maga republicans, I see conservatives vs republicans, and they could not be further apart than they are today. From there we may find conservatives that pinch their nose and vote republican, but no conservative likes what's going on today. If they do, they're republican, not conservative. One is loyal to an ideology and the other is loyal to idolatry. 

The Shop

7/24/2026 6:46pm
byke wrote:
I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how...

I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how weird people get. What does change is the ways that people attempt to implement conservative ideologies into our political system and that group of people are republicans. Since trump has completely taken over the republican party, I don't see it as maga vs non-maga republicans, I see conservatives vs republicans, and they could not be further apart than they are today. From there we may find conservatives that pinch their nose and vote republican, but no conservative likes what's going on today. If they do, they're republican, not conservative. One is loyal to an ideology and the other is loyal to idolatry. 

I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. 

While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t represent me. 

What’s the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? Because the Socialists are squawking the loudest. 

We need to start remembering and reminding elected officials, that they’re our representatives, not our leaders. 

2
borg
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Long Beach, CA, USA
7/24/2026 7:06pm
byke wrote:
I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how...

I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how weird people get. What does change is the ways that people attempt to implement conservative ideologies into our political system and that group of people are republicans. Since trump has completely taken over the republican party, I don't see it as maga vs non-maga republicans, I see conservatives vs republicans, and they could not be further apart than they are today. From there we may find conservatives that pinch their nose and vote republican, but no conservative likes what's going on today. If they do, they're republican, not conservative. One is loyal to an ideology and the other is loyal to idolatry. 

MoogenKen wrote:
I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t...

I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. 

While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t represent me. 

What’s the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? Because the Socialists are squawking the loudest. 

We need to start remembering and reminding elected officials, that they’re our representatives, not our leaders. 

I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is and that was a long time ago. If I actually have an ideology, I don't have a modern label for it. Constitutionalist? Rule by law and not by man dude? Freedom guy? Anti government oppression guy? Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest.

3
SEEMEFIRST
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7/24/2026 7:11pm
borg wrote:
There were a few senior reporters but most were beat reporters working for AP or other news cooperatives as most local news sources did not have...

There were a few senior reporters but most were beat reporters working for AP or other news cooperatives as most local news sources did not have a Washington bureau. Bottom of the food chain. It doesn't matter though. The fact that the mainstream press was left of center was not deniable and the survey I cited shows it.  Are you saying they were not biased? Because your data does not disprove the claim. Many reporters from the era eventually admitted as much. Whether or not that situation still exists at the network or local newspaper level I couldn't tell you. I stopped watching network news in the 90's and nobody reads newspapers. Mainstream press, academia and Hollywood all veer sharply left. It's something that the left really needs to stop denying. They sound ridiculous. 

APLMAN99 wrote:
Is the fact that most people generally pick a single candidate to vote for necessarily proof of bias?  It’s not like you can pick two candidates...

Is the fact that most people generally pick a single candidate to vote for necessarily proof of bias?  It’s not like you can pick two candidates to vote for in the same election.  

I don’t think (but I can’t find the whole paper) the survey looked at the complete list of candidates that those surveyed voted for down ticket. That would definitely be a little bit better if you were looking to prove inherent bias, but even then it would be for a single election, not a pattern of bias. 

It would actually be a very interesting read if anyone can find the whole paper from 1996!

borg wrote:
I didn't look for the whole paper and hung my hat on the available data but you're right, the whole ticket would have told a better...

I didn't look for the whole paper and hung my hat on the available data but you're right, the whole ticket would have told a better story. The 89% to 7% is pretty extreme though. The press I was exposed to really seemed to change from the 88 election to the 92 election. At the time I was reading the LA times, watching CNN and the Sunday morning shows. It's hard to remember clearly but CNN was nothing like they are now but it seemed like it was starting to show during the run up to 92. 

Not saying that personal perception has nothing to do with it and that may be more true with network news back then but not newspapers. Different papers in the same town have always displayed their preferences. We had the LA Times and the Examiner. Night and day. The examiner went out of business in 89 and the Times had the floor.

We had 2 major papers around here, The Dallas Morning News and The Star Telegram (Ft.Worth). 

You really had to read them both then try to make a conclusion because they were clearly biased.

Then the Star Telegram was sold, and you couldn't tell them apart until you got to local stuff.

I've been consuming MSM, and other media since the 70's.  Anyone claiming the media isn't biased is just not paying attention. 

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lumpy790
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7/24/2026 8:59pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2026 8:59pm

Well tonight’s speech sure was … different

Comedian he is not

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early
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7/24/2026 9:30pm
borg wrote:
Doesn't really explain the extreme bias in the 1992 survey. I'm also going to say that newsroom people would be closer to the some college category...

Doesn't really explain the extreme bias in the 1992 survey. I'm also going to say that newsroom people would be closer to the some college category that the post graduate. News reporters are notoriously poorly paid when compared to college grads with some type of degree. 

early wrote:
Back then covering the presidential race meant it was highly likely you were working for a major news organization as a senior correspondent, they weren't hiring...

Back then covering the presidential race meant it was highly likely you were working for a major news organization as a senior correspondent, they weren't hiring rando dropouts for that role.

borg wrote:
There were a few senior reporters but most were beat reporters working for AP or other news cooperatives as most local news sources did not have...

There were a few senior reporters but most were beat reporters working for AP or other news cooperatives as most local news sources did not have a Washington bureau. Bottom of the food chain. It doesn't matter though. The fact that the mainstream press was left of center was not deniable and the survey I cited shows it.  Are you saying they were not biased? Because your data does not disprove the claim. Many reporters from the era eventually admitted as much. Whether or not that situation still exists at the network or local newspaper level I couldn't tell you. I stopped watching network news in the 90's and nobody reads newspapers. Mainstream press, academia and Hollywood all veer sharply left. It's something that the left really needs to stop denying. They sound ridiculous. 

I did not intend to refute your statistics, I was reinforcing them. I still think that in the 90s even for local reporters that were covering the presidential race having a college degree was more common than not.

The segregation of society to left and right careers has not been beneficial, there should be more conservative (and probably male) school teachers and it wouldn't hurt it have more left of center folks on the police forces. 

When it comes to the arts it's interesting that conservatives had been developing a kind of parallel world for themselves. If you look at the top scripted television shows most of them are conservative coded cop shows or something similar, but they aren't the kind of splashy shows that get people talking. (Respect to avidchimp and the Sheridan-verse success).

Nashville country has been its own insular thing for a long time and has been gaining traction as rock music has been losing it. But because it's so insular it makes for some strange results, in 2017 Sturgill Simpson won the Grammys award for best country album for an album that I consider great, but because he wasn't a Nashville country guy he wasn't even invited to attend the Country Music Awards that year. Personally I think he's better than Jelly Roll. Right now Ella Langley's song Choosin Texas is poised to take the record for most weeks at #1 on the pop charts surpassing the record held by Whitney Houstons version of I Will Always Love You (good excuse to go watch best little whorehouse in texas). By my ear Choosin Texas is not a very inspiring song compared to either Whitney or Dolly's version of the latter, but it's a success for conservatives regardless, they should celebrate it!

Classical music is very left coded as well as opera and live theater. But there's no lack of money on the right to attend or put on productions, they just choose not to pursue those things, suffer the consequences, then complain about it. 

Part of the reason is that the conservative audience for that kind of thing is captured by the church already and they only escape that bubble on occasion. 

It's interesting that conservatives will claim to want small government but then choose to be a part of rigid social structures like religion and HOA communities. I get that they want to choose which rigid rules to follow but it still strikes me as at odds with their basic philosophy. 

As far as higher education, I've only gone to state school in Ohio for science and engineering and it was a little while ago. I can't remember a time when politics came up in class outside of maybe a few times in economics classes when talking about fiscal policy and interest rates and that kind of thing. I'm sure experiences are different depending on location and subject, but that's of an individuals choosing. 

But the people that are, as George Carlin would put it, "in the big club" on the right are sending their kids to college. Vance and Hegseth went to Yale, almost every Republican Senator went to college, Trump's sending his grandkids to college. The American system is built for the common man to ascend, maybe your grandkid will be the one to do it without going to college.

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matt.3150
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7/25/2026 6:06am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2026 6:35am
borg wrote:
indoctrination/inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/Indoctrination is the act of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs, ideas, or rules without questioning them. It relies on...
indoctrination
/inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/
Indoctrination is the act of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs, ideas, or rules without questioning them. It relies on repetition and discourages critical thinking or opposing views. [1, 2]
 
Key Features of Indoctrination
  • No Questions Allowed: Learners cannot ask questions, doubt, or test the ideas being taught.
  • One-Sided View: Only one side of a story or belief system is shared, while other choices are hidden or called wrong.

So, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

matt.3150 wrote:
So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false.  Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable accepting claims...

So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. 
 

Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable 

accepting claims from a trusted politician without asking for evidence 

Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal 


These are all signs of indoctrination 

Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate.   

borg wrote:
"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking...

"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "

I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking about 30 years ago and responding to a post by soggy that referenced that era. 

"Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable"

Boy, you really got the wrong guy here. I can't stand that sonofabitch.

"Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal "

I have no loyalty to any group, party or politician. There are a few on this forum that will attest to that.

"Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate. " 

While there is a history of left wing college groups that have been able to keep conservative speakers from speaking, things might actually be improving in that regard. We can both cheer for more open debate.

 

I wasn’t saying you about any of it, you’re actually talking and making good points . Was pointing out thing that were signs of indoctrination.  Which is exactly the opposite, lot of the guys that are indoctrinated on here will put up post not really to have a conversation but either get there fellow supporters to just agree with them or to troll others. 

As far as not having conservatives speaker, yea you see that on both sides. But that could be a few things, maybe the majority of people didn’t want that but yes it doesn’t encourage debate. Using Charlie Kirk as an example, people that ever have watched his full so called debates, they really were not. It was the same old tired stuff he just kept repeating, it wasn’t really a debate it was for 2 reasons , one was to have a aka liberal college not let him speak , so he can make a stink about it to his followers, or to speak with the same old things and try and get a quick clip were it might look like he’s winning. A snapshot never tells the whole picture, or very rarely does. Picking and choosing a single point in time. With that you can make Hitler look like a philanthropist.  


 

2
2
borg
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7/25/2026 6:40am
matt.3150 wrote:
So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false.  Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable accepting claims...

So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. 
 

Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable 

accepting claims from a trusted politician without asking for evidence 

Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal 


These are all signs of indoctrination 

Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate.   

borg wrote:
"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking...

"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "

I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking about 30 years ago and responding to a post by soggy that referenced that era. 

"Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable"

Boy, you really got the wrong guy here. I can't stand that sonofabitch.

"Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal "

I have no loyalty to any group, party or politician. There are a few on this forum that will attest to that.

"Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate. " 

While there is a history of left wing college groups that have been able to keep conservative speakers from speaking, things might actually be improving in that regard. We can both cheer for more open debate.

 

matt.3150 wrote:
I wasn’t saying you about any of it, you’re actually talking and making good points . Was pointing out thing that were signs of indoctrination.  Which...

I wasn’t saying you about any of it, you’re actually talking and making good points . Was pointing out thing that were signs of indoctrination.  Which is exactly the opposite, lot of the guys that are indoctrinated on here will put up post not really to have a conversation but either get there fellow supporters to just agree with them or to troll others. 

As far as not having conservatives speaker, yea you see that on both sides. But that could be a few things, maybe the majority of people didn’t want that but yes it doesn’t encourage debate. Using Charlie Kirk as an example, people that ever have watched his full so called debates, they really were not. It was the same old tired stuff he just kept repeating, it wasn’t really a debate it was for 2 reasons , one was to have a aka liberal college not let him speak , so he can make a stink about it to his followers, or to speak with the same old things and try and get a quick clip were it might look like he’s winning. A snapshot never tells the whole picture, or very rarely does. Picking and choosing a single point in time. With that you can make Hitler look like a philanthropist.  


 

Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. 

If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe $100, I will be much more amiable.

7/25/2026 6:43am
borg wrote:
Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe...

Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. 

If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe $100, I will be much more amiable.

I’m using a Sony FX30 Cinema Line now. 

Ok, haven’t shot video in a year. Kinda lost interest after upgrading all my gear. 

borg
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7/25/2026 7:11am
borg wrote:
Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe...

Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. 

If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe $100, I will be much more amiable.

MoogenKen wrote:
I’m using a Sony FX30 Cinema Line now. Ok, haven’t shot video in a year. Kinda lost interest after upgrading all my gear. 

I’m using a Sony FX30 Cinema Line now. 

Ok, haven’t shot video in a year. Kinda lost interest after upgrading all my gear. 

I have seen your YT vids and that is a great camera for that. I'm using this for astrophotography and a limited amount. Stills not video. All of my YT stuff is shot with shitty cameras with horrible sound. I have to dub it in which is fine with the stuff I do but time consuming to edit.

Is your channel still up? It's been years. I just remember the ranch hand stuff.

1
matt.3150
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San Jose, CA, USA
7/25/2026 7:36am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2026 8:31am
borg wrote:
"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking...

"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "

I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking about 30 years ago and responding to a post by soggy that referenced that era. 

"Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable"

Boy, you really got the wrong guy here. I can't stand that sonofabitch.

"Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal "

I have no loyalty to any group, party or politician. There are a few on this forum that will attest to that.

"Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate. " 

While there is a history of left wing college groups that have been able to keep conservative speakers from speaking, things might actually be improving in that regard. We can both cheer for more open debate.

 

matt.3150 wrote:
I wasn’t saying you about any of it, you’re actually talking and making good points . Was pointing out thing that were signs of indoctrination.  Which...

I wasn’t saying you about any of it, you’re actually talking and making good points . Was pointing out thing that were signs of indoctrination.  Which is exactly the opposite, lot of the guys that are indoctrinated on here will put up post not really to have a conversation but either get there fellow supporters to just agree with them or to troll others. 

As far as not having conservatives speaker, yea you see that on both sides. But that could be a few things, maybe the majority of people didn’t want that but yes it doesn’t encourage debate. Using Charlie Kirk as an example, people that ever have watched his full so called debates, they really were not. It was the same old tired stuff he just kept repeating, it wasn’t really a debate it was for 2 reasons , one was to have a aka liberal college not let him speak , so he can make a stink about it to his followers, or to speak with the same old things and try and get a quick clip were it might look like he’s winning. A snapshot never tells the whole picture, or very rarely does. Picking and choosing a single point in time. With that you can make Hitler look like a philanthropist.  


 

borg wrote:
Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe...

Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. 

If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe $100, I will be much more amiable.

Yea, we all have those days. Nice I had a bunch of friend into photography, pretty cool. My best friend in the early 2000’s was a professional photographer for action sports and had a Canon D5. I’m going riding today at Prairie City aka(Hangtown) it’s usually a great place to ride. 

1
7/25/2026 9:02am
borg wrote:
"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking...

"So treating everything from mainstream sources being automatically false. "

I don't know what the mainstream media reports. I don't watch or read it. I was talking about 30 years ago and responding to a post by soggy that referenced that era. 

"Defending action by a Trump that if done be a the democrats would be considered totally unacceptable"

Boy, you really got the wrong guy here. I can't stand that sonofabitch.

"Viewing disagreements within your own political group as betrayal "

I have no loyalty to any group, party or politician. There are a few on this forum that will attest to that.

"Colleges don’t tell you how to think, they for the most part try to push for open thought and debate. " 

While there is a history of left wing college groups that have been able to keep conservative speakers from speaking, things might actually be improving in that regard. We can both cheer for more open debate.

 

matt.3150 wrote:
I wasn’t saying you about any of it, you’re actually talking and making good points . Was pointing out thing that were signs of indoctrination.  Which...

I wasn’t saying you about any of it, you’re actually talking and making good points . Was pointing out thing that were signs of indoctrination.  Which is exactly the opposite, lot of the guys that are indoctrinated on here will put up post not really to have a conversation but either get there fellow supporters to just agree with them or to troll others. 

As far as not having conservatives speaker, yea you see that on both sides. But that could be a few things, maybe the majority of people didn’t want that but yes it doesn’t encourage debate. Using Charlie Kirk as an example, people that ever have watched his full so called debates, they really were not. It was the same old tired stuff he just kept repeating, it wasn’t really a debate it was for 2 reasons , one was to have a aka liberal college not let him speak , so he can make a stink about it to his followers, or to speak with the same old things and try and get a quick clip were it might look like he’s winning. A snapshot never tells the whole picture, or very rarely does. Picking and choosing a single point in time. With that you can make Hitler look like a philanthropist.  


 

borg wrote:
Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe...

Was in an especially contrarian mood yesterday. Not typically my MO. 

If I could find a nice Nikon D5300 body at a garage sale today for maybe $100, I will be much more amiable.

I've found some great deals on used cameras on Shopgoodwill.com  Its better known now so prices have crept up. But You can still get some decent stuff for roughly what You may get for trading it in on the high end.   Some stuff the shipping is super cheap. They have $0.01 shipping on stuff sometimes. And sometimes it's figured based on what their shipping calculator says and sometimes they also have a handling charge. So keep track of those if You bid on anything.  

 

 Its like a giant yard sale. I've seen just about everything on there. From a giant EMTB to a signed Tomac jersey, brand new riding gear, tons of cameras and lenses . I've spent more time on there than I should.  I had a friend say isn't that stuff for charity and people who can not afford new stuff. Well that's what the money they make off selling goes to.  So buying  the stuff is what ends up helping people the most. They use the money from selling to help, not the donated items.   I'm sure there are people making a living off buying and selling stuff from there. I just buy something here and there. I found it while looking to buy a ton of legos for my nephew's . They sell legos by the pound and at the time I was able to get 27 pounds of legos for about $40 . It seemed like a steal.  And they loved seeing stuff that was older.  

7/25/2026 9:18am
borg wrote:
I have seen your YT vids and that is a great camera for that. I'm using this for astrophotography and a limited amount. Stills not video...

I have seen your YT vids and that is a great camera for that. I'm using this for astrophotography and a limited amount. Stills not video. All of my YT stuff is shot with shitty cameras with horrible sound. I have to dub it in which is fine with the stuff I do but time consuming to edit.

Is your channel still up? It's been years. I just remember the ranch hand stuff.

No Sir, I’ve removed all my work. 

ns503
Posts
4606
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NS Toolies, CA
7/25/2026 10:23am
byke wrote:
I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how...

I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how weird people get. What does change is the ways that people attempt to implement conservative ideologies into our political system and that group of people are republicans. Since trump has completely taken over the republican party, I don't see it as maga vs non-maga republicans, I see conservatives vs republicans, and they could not be further apart than they are today. From there we may find conservatives that pinch their nose and vote republican, but no conservative likes what's going on today. If they do, they're republican, not conservative. One is loyal to an ideology and the other is loyal to idolatry. 

MoogenKen wrote:
I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t...

I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. 

While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t represent me. 

What’s the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? Because the Socialists are squawking the loudest. 

We need to start remembering and reminding elected officials, that they’re our representatives, not our leaders. 

borg wrote:
I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is...

I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is and that was a long time ago. If I actually have an ideology, I don't have a modern label for it. Constitutionalist? Rule by law and not by man dude? Freedom guy? Anti government oppression guy? Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest.

Hold up.

Are you saying that when you register to vote, you have to give a party preference?

borg
Posts
6918
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
7/25/2026 10:34am
MoogenKen wrote:
I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t...

I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. 

While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t represent me. 

What’s the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? Because the Socialists are squawking the loudest. 

We need to start remembering and reminding elected officials, that they’re our representatives, not our leaders. 

borg wrote:
I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is...

I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is and that was a long time ago. If I actually have an ideology, I don't have a modern label for it. Constitutionalist? Rule by law and not by man dude? Freedom guy? Anti government oppression guy? Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest.

ns503 wrote:

Hold up.

Are you saying that when you register to vote, you have to give a party preference?

This was 40 or 50 years ago. I don't remember but I do know that I registered as a Republican which is a moot point in California now. There are no more party primaries here and Republicans never win anything anyway.

7/25/2026 11:07am
MoogenKen wrote:

“Go see Chance and get me two sky hooks and 20’ of a fallopian tube”.

Poor apprentices. 

Chance1216 wrote:

Haven’t heard Sky hooks in years 😂 

Right there next to the underwater paint brush. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Go get me a yard of flight line, a bucket of prop wash, and a turned down #30 drill.

"and a turned down #30 drill"

Uhm, that would make it a #36 drill, perfect for tapping a 6-32 thread. 😜

Just sayin

7/25/2026 11:23am
Do You consider becoming a hardcore Trump supporter, or Republican  also being indoctrinated?    The extreme ends of both parties both have their own crainess.  I...

Do You consider becoming a hardcore Trump supporter, or Republican  also being indoctrinated?  

  The extreme ends of both parties both have their own crainess.  I would say that I see it from people  in both parties.   

 

ToolMaker wrote:

Please define what is a hard core Trump supporter? Or Republican?

TM

I think that answers my question . Unless your question is a distraction, to question how I define each.  My definition doesn't matter for my question.  It...

I think that answers my question . Unless your question is a distraction, to question how I define each. 

 My definition doesn't matter for my question.  It was more of a can you see  it exists  in both parties or do you think it doesn't.  I'm not implying that a republican is the same thing as a Hardcore trump supporter.  

 

 Personally, I think anybody who is loyal to the leader of their party , over what they believe is best for the country is not being a Republican or Democrat. They are being disloyal to the people who elected them whichever party they belong to.   

 

To me, a hard core Trump supporter is one who has been indoctrinated, I'm not defining all Trump supporters that way,  not all Trump supporters support him seemingly  blindly . 

   And a Republican is just a person who identifies more with the republican party. Whether that aligns with current or conventional republican values or the past .       

"My definition doesn't matter for my question." It 100% matters to the question.

But recent history tells us that when (the prominent) the conservative groups bring in conservative speakers to inspire people other than their existing group, the liberals (professors, students and administration) collude to prevent said speakers from having a place to speak on campus. So the answer would be a resounding NO. Do you think Charlie Kirk got shot because he was a liberal? There is much (exponential) more hatred from liberals than conservatives. Take this place for example, why in the world would anyone get their panties in a wad from what I write? I have no influence over their life. And yet people go out of their way to post shit because they don't like what I write. You think I care what L2S writes? The only thing he does that affects me is, he consumes screen space that I need to scroll through. Not to single out L2S because he's not a lone wolf in what he does. But really, how do I, as a conservative, affect him enough to inspire his drivel? Conservatives generally observe the craziness of liberals and then go about their day, where as liberals generally lose their shit if there's a conservative within 5 miles.

But it sure does give us a good laugh to watch!

TM

1
2
7/25/2026 11:30am
byke wrote:
I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how...

I think of it as conservatism vs republicanism, because conservatism is an ideology and that core "make things last" model does not change no matter how weird people get. What does change is the ways that people attempt to implement conservative ideologies into our political system and that group of people are republicans. Since trump has completely taken over the republican party, I don't see it as maga vs non-maga republicans, I see conservatives vs republicans, and they could not be further apart than they are today. From there we may find conservatives that pinch their nose and vote republican, but no conservative likes what's going on today. If they do, they're republican, not conservative. One is loyal to an ideology and the other is loyal to idolatry. 

MoogenKen wrote:
I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t...

I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. 

While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t represent me. 

What’s the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? Because the Socialists are squawking the loudest. 

We need to start remembering and reminding elected officials, that they’re our representatives, not our leaders. 

borg wrote:
I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is...

I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is and that was a long time ago. If I actually have an ideology, I don't have a modern label for it. Constitutionalist? Rule by law and not by man dude? Freedom guy? Anti government oppression guy? Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest.

"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."

If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it 🤣🤣

TM

SEEMEFIRST
Posts
14010
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX, USA
7/25/2026 11:57am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2026 11:59am
Chance1216 wrote:

Haven’t heard Sky hooks in years 😂 

Right there next to the underwater paint brush. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Go get me a yard of flight line, a bucket of prop wash, and a turned down #30 drill.

ToolMaker wrote:

"and a turned down #30 drill"

Uhm, that would make it a #36 drill, perfect for tapping a 6-32 thread. 😜

Just sayin

Doh!

It refers to the shank, not the whole thing. 🤣

Wasn't this in another thread? How'd it get here?

7/25/2026 12:31pm
ToolMaker wrote:

Please define what is a hard core Trump supporter? Or Republican?

TM

I think that answers my question . Unless your question is a distraction, to question how I define each.  My definition doesn't matter for my question.  It...

I think that answers my question . Unless your question is a distraction, to question how I define each. 

 My definition doesn't matter for my question.  It was more of a can you see  it exists  in both parties or do you think it doesn't.  I'm not implying that a republican is the same thing as a Hardcore trump supporter.  

 

 Personally, I think anybody who is loyal to the leader of their party , over what they believe is best for the country is not being a Republican or Democrat. They are being disloyal to the people who elected them whichever party they belong to.   

 

To me, a hard core Trump supporter is one who has been indoctrinated, I'm not defining all Trump supporters that way,  not all Trump supporters support him seemingly  blindly . 

   And a Republican is just a person who identifies more with the republican party. Whether that aligns with current or conventional republican values or the past .       

ToolMaker wrote:
"My definition doesn't matter for my question." It 100% matters to the question.But recent history tells us that when (the prominent) the conservative groups bring in...

"My definition doesn't matter for my question." It 100% matters to the question.

But recent history tells us that when (the prominent) the conservative groups bring in conservative speakers to inspire people other than their existing group, the liberals (professors, students and administration) collude to prevent said speakers from having a place to speak on campus. So the answer would be a resounding NO. Do you think Charlie Kirk got shot because he was a liberal? There is much (exponential) more hatred from liberals than conservatives. Take this place for example, why in the world would anyone get their panties in a wad from what I write? I have no influence over their life. And yet people go out of their way to post shit because they don't like what I write. You think I care what L2S writes? The only thing he does that affects me is, he consumes screen space that I need to scroll through. Not to single out L2S because he's not a lone wolf in what he does. But really, how do I, as a conservative, affect him enough to inspire his drivel? Conservatives generally observe the craziness of liberals and then go about their day, where as liberals generally lose their shit if there's a conservative within 5 miles.

But it sure does give us a good laugh to watch!

TM

  To answer my question, to answer what I was wondering, it did not matter.  They were just the opposite of the left,  for the purpose of the question . I could have asked if You thought it existed with people on the right, or at the opposite side of the political spectrum , or many other ways I'm sure. , and it would have been the same question as far as I was concerned when I chose those words. 

Nothing You said doesn't mean that there is not inductroation happening  with Trump supporters.  It may go towards proving indoctrination on the left. But doesn't do anything to say its not also happening on the right. 

There are legit reasons for schools to not want Kirk to do one of his shows at their schools. Agree or disagree with what he was saying. It brought a heightened risk by having him there and doing what he did.    Anybody with a large audience will get death threats and have attempts made. The larger the audience the bigger chance of it happening no matter what Your saying, or what Your intent is. 

 

 Look at the examples other have posted about what Trump does with his followers.  It sure fits the definition of being indoctrinated.    

 

2
APLMAN99
Posts
12708
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
7/25/2026 4:32pm
MoogenKen wrote:
I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t...

I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. 

While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t represent me. 

What’s the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? Because the Socialists are squawking the loudest. 

We need to start remembering and reminding elected officials, that they’re our representatives, not our leaders. 

borg wrote:
I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is...

I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is and that was a long time ago. If I actually have an ideology, I don't have a modern label for it. Constitutionalist? Rule by law and not by man dude? Freedom guy? Anti government oppression guy? Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest.

ns503 wrote:

Hold up.

Are you saying that when you register to vote, you have to give a party preference?

IMG 0027 6IMG 0028 3.jpeg?VersionId=4D
3
borg
Posts
6918
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
7/25/2026 5:46pm
MoogenKen wrote:
I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t...

I’m a Conservative, not a RINO Republican, nor MAGA. 

While I may share some ideology with the two latter, about 25% of the time those two don’t represent me. 

What’s the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? Because the Socialists are squawking the loudest. 

We need to start remembering and reminding elected officials, that they’re our representatives, not our leaders. 

borg wrote:
I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is...

I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is and that was a long time ago. If I actually have an ideology, I don't have a modern label for it. Constitutionalist? Rule by law and not by man dude? Freedom guy? Anti government oppression guy? Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest.

ToolMaker wrote:
"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it...

"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."

If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it 🤣🤣

TM

"If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it."

I think you do. You keep sending me shit. How about a nice Kamala waterjet keyshain dangly thingy?

borg
Posts
6918
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
7/25/2026 6:09pm
borg wrote:
I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is...

I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is and that was a long time ago. If I actually have an ideology, I don't have a modern label for it. Constitutionalist? Rule by law and not by man dude? Freedom guy? Anti government oppression guy? Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest.

ns503 wrote:

Hold up.

Are you saying that when you register to vote, you have to give a party preference?

APLMAN99 wrote:
IMG 0027 6IMG 0028 3.jpeg?VersionId=4D

According to Jonah Goldberg, party primaries end up putting their most extreme candidates in the general which doesn't work out for the country very well. Apparently he thinks California's method is better. So, in the general, we end up with no Republicans and every Democrat is a fucking whack job. Great!

borg
Posts
6918
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
7/25/2026 7:35pm
borg wrote:
I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is...

I am a RINO. All that means is when I registered to vote, that was what I chose as my party preference. That's all it is and that was a long time ago. If I actually have an ideology, I don't have a modern label for it. Constitutionalist? Rule by law and not by man dude? Freedom guy? Anti government oppression guy? Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest.

ToolMaker wrote:
"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it...

"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."

If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it 🤣🤣

TM

borg wrote:
"If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it."I think you do. You keep sending me shit...

"If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it."

I think you do. You keep sending me shit. How about a nice Kamala waterjet keyshain dangly thingy?

Can you get your buddy Trump to do something for me. Just don't tell him it's for me. I need him to kill all the goddam mosquitos in Cal Heights. I know he wont do it legally or without collateral damage but I don't give a fuck. These fucking things have to go. Now I'm not a religious guy but if wanted to think like one for just a minute, I would ask the almighty, what in the fuck are these goddam things good for? I went out outside wearing shorts for 15 minutes to play with my new camera and my legs look like they got shot with rocksalt. I may need a transfusion. You cant see these tiny bastards. They know where your eyes are and they stay just out of view and suck your blood like fucking bats. They inject an anesthesia so you don't feel it while they are gorging themselves.

So, if you wouldn't mind making a call for me I would appreciate it. Pete could probably handle it so you really don't need to bother the big guy but I will leave that up to you.

2
1
7/25/2026 9:53pm
ToolMaker wrote:
"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it...

"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."

If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it 🤣🤣

TM

borg wrote:
"If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it."I think you do. You keep sending me shit...

"If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it."

I think you do. You keep sending me shit. How about a nice Kamala waterjet keyshain dangly thingy?

borg wrote:
Can you get your buddy Trump to do something for me. Just don't tell him it's for me. I need him to kill all the goddam...

Can you get your buddy Trump to do something for me. Just don't tell him it's for me. I need him to kill all the goddam mosquitos in Cal Heights. I know he wont do it legally or without collateral damage but I don't give a fuck. These fucking things have to go. Now I'm not a religious guy but if wanted to think like one for just a minute, I would ask the almighty, what in the fuck are these goddam things good for? I went out outside wearing shorts for 15 minutes to play with my new camera and my legs look like they got shot with rocksalt. I may need a transfusion. You cant see these tiny bastards. They know where your eyes are and they stay just out of view and suck your blood like fucking bats. They inject an anesthesia so you don't feel it while they are gorging themselves.

So, if you wouldn't mind making a call for me I would appreciate it. Pete could probably handle it so you really don't need to bother the big guy but I will leave that up to you.

They said they're a bit busy right now playing night golf but Bobby suggested, Citronella grows real well in that area. Plant a few!

TM

avidchimp
Posts
5807
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
7/26/2026 7:43am
ToolMaker wrote:
"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it...

"Get off my lawn guy is probably the closest."

If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it 🤣🤣

TM

borg wrote:
"If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it."I think you do. You keep sending me shit...

"If I knew where you lived, I'd walk on your lawn and put a Kamala sign on it."

I think you do. You keep sending me shit. How about a nice Kamala waterjet keyshain dangly thingy?

borg wrote:
Can you get your buddy Trump to do something for me. Just don't tell him it's for me. I need him to kill all the goddam...

Can you get your buddy Trump to do something for me. Just don't tell him it's for me. I need him to kill all the goddam mosquitos in Cal Heights. I know he wont do it legally or without collateral damage but I don't give a fuck. These fucking things have to go. Now I'm not a religious guy but if wanted to think like one for just a minute, I would ask the almighty, what in the fuck are these goddam things good for? I went out outside wearing shorts for 15 minutes to play with my new camera and my legs look like they got shot with rocksalt. I may need a transfusion. You cant see these tiny bastards. They know where your eyes are and they stay just out of view and suck your blood like fucking bats. They inject an anesthesia so you don't feel it while they are gorging themselves.

So, if you wouldn't mind making a call for me I would appreciate it. Pete could probably handle it so you really don't need to bother the big guy but I will leave that up to you.

Last summer/fall while we were still in Thousand Oaks it was the worst I've ever been attacked by those little stealth fuckers. As you said, literally eaten alive. If I wore shorts in the yard or took a walk in the park it was game over for my ankles and lower legs. To date I've only been bit 4 times since I moved to Minnesota. Upside down world for sure.

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