Percent pie, why are Euros faster in moto

7/21/2026 2:11pm

When you compare the united states against the rest of the world ,the rest of the world has a major population advantage to draw talent from ,so there's that.

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early
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7/21/2026 2:28pm
When you compare the united states against the rest of the world ,the rest of the world has a major population advantage to draw talent from...

When you compare the united states against the rest of the world ,the rest of the world has a major population advantage to draw talent from ,so there's that.

Italy and Spain have about 50 million people each, you should look at the country of origin on the MotoGP grid. Alot of this is cultural, America has a large motorcycle culture but it's not one very focused on racing.

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The Wolf Man
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7/21/2026 2:32pm
JazzyJJ wrote:

You're basing this off some incorrect assumptions, mainly:

Taking Malin's troll as gospel 

and

The fastest stateside rider currently riding with one foot. 

Malin's comments were about the 250 class. 

As for Jett Lawrence, he rode EMX in Europe and has pointed out on numerous occasions - as has Hunter and Dazzy - how bad the US amateur system is. 

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7/21/2026 2:57pm

Have a look at the horrendous track conditions they train on.

Also, in the US every training facility has been trying to reinvent the wheel to be a step ahead of the Jones's. The wheel can only be invented so many ways.

The Euro's race. 

E.g. Reeds kid Tate. Hardly races and has a dad that is always going a different path cause the thinks he knows better. 

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The Shop

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7/21/2026 3:09pm

Euro vs. Americans used to be such a thing. Once, Europeans were head and shoulders above and then the US surpassed them. The story back then was that because Americans raced Supercross, they built skills that Euros didn't have. Now, SX is presented as an excuse as to why the Americans have fallen behind. 

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7/21/2026 3:42pm
Have a look at the horrendous track conditions they train on.Also, in the US every training facility has been trying to reinvent the wheel to be...

Have a look at the horrendous track conditions they train on.

Also, in the US every training facility has been trying to reinvent the wheel to be a step ahead of the Jones's. The wheel can only be invented so many ways.

The Euro's race. 

E.g. Reeds kid Tate. Hardly races and has a dad that is always going a different path cause the thinks he knows better. 

I noticed the same trend in kids stick and ball sports . The people doing the best (financially) are the ones that have the tools to get little johny to the next level.

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7/21/2026 4:35pm

Who cares about tv races that much anyway.  Odd balls that buy someone else’s jersey . I think it’s weird.  I think the world is more excited about c. Micro 2 4-6 Ltd.  On the 1st day of LL. Lol 

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Press516
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7/21/2026 4:36pm

The question is flawed…

If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system, American slump, etc.

As posed, the answer is, they aren’t…. The 2 fastest MX riders on the planet are not euros and race in America.  Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator.  

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CPR
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7/21/2026 4:42pm
Press516 wrote:
The question is flawed…If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system...

The question is flawed…

If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system, American slump, etc.

As posed, the answer is, they aren’t…. The 2 fastest MX riders on the planet are not euros and race in America.  Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator.  

Ok so why are Aussies faster than Euros and Americans? 😂

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7/21/2026 4:50pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2026 4:50pm

This thread is pointless… isn’t it obvious? They ride moto year round when our guys are focused on SX half the year. I guess common sense isn’t so common anymore lol. 

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7/21/2026 5:10pm
Press516 wrote:
The question is flawed…If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system...

The question is flawed…

If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system, American slump, etc.

As posed, the answer is, they aren’t…. The 2 fastest MX riders on the planet are not euros and race in America.  Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator.  

Best indicator of rider speed world wide . Is vintage racing the tracks are basically the same.  

Some American tracks hv doubles though.  I,ve been watching a lot of vintage & was surprised how much faster. Americans are ovr the Dutch on a shallow sand track.  I,m 1/2 Dutch so I,m cool with them.  The U.K. is on rails & Very fast on the hardpack .  Belgium wasn’t impressive.  The French looked better but Mike Brown has nothing to worry about. Lol or me even . Lol  I can ride hardpack really good. 90-25 track 20 min away that’s what I rode.  Hard like concrete square holes & rocks everywhere clay whoops ride them both directions. My front wheel was nothing but inward dents.  Had to take a wheel off of Cody Barnes 04 I bought .  And he put a couple small ones in it, being a fast Profeshenal. 

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The Wolf Man
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7/21/2026 5:20pm
Press516 wrote:
The question is flawed…If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system...

The question is flawed…

If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system, American slump, etc.

As posed, the answer is, they aren’t…. The 2 fastest MX riders on the planet are not euros and race in America.  Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator.  

CPR wrote:

Ok so why are Aussies faster than Euros and Americans? 😂

And Kiwis...

The US is indeed cooked...

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The Wolf Man
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7/21/2026 5:21pm
This thread is pointless… isn’t it obvious? They ride moto year round when our guys are focused on SX half the year. I guess common sense...

This thread is pointless… isn’t it obvious? They ride moto year round when our guys are focused on SX half the year. I guess common sense isn’t so common anymore lol. 

Well, the two fastest motocross racers in the world race SX as well...

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7/21/2026 5:32pm
Have a look at the horrendous track conditions they train on.Also, in the US every training facility has been trying to reinvent the wheel to be...

Have a look at the horrendous track conditions they train on.

Also, in the US every training facility has been trying to reinvent the wheel to be a step ahead of the Jones's. The wheel can only be invented so many ways.

The Euro's race. 

E.g. Reeds kid Tate. Hardly races and has a dad that is always going a different path cause the thinks he knows better. 

I noticed the same trend in kids stick and ball sports . The people doing the best (financially) are the ones that have the tools to...

I noticed the same trend in kids stick and ball sports . The people doing the best (financially) are the ones that have the tools to get little johny to the next level.

Oh 100 %  retired Packer players hv a huge warehouse. Pay big money to get little 5th graders bodies reprogrammed to get trigger muscles.  That’s gets them closer to compete with kids with it naturally .  All the secrets to proper stretching etc. 

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Mcflurry98
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7/21/2026 7:43pm

- 2X MXGP champion (Prado) has been here 2 years and barely stiffs a podium. 

- The two fastest guys in MX2 and MXGP came here and showed just how fast they are. They also both crashed their balls off and now have their GP titles at risk. 

- GP riders don’t ride in 12 rounds of heat and humidity like riders do here in the U.S.

- GP riders typically only have only ~20 people on the gate with them, so they don’t have to deal with lappers like the U.S. riders do. 

 

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decano51
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7/21/2026 8:13pm
Press516 wrote:
The question is flawed…If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system...

The question is flawed…

If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system, American slump, etc.

As posed, the answer is, they aren’t…. The 2 fastest MX riders on the planet are not euros and race in America.  Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator.  

 "Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator..." agree...  so is the world Junior championships.. but i don't understand that argument from your side.. both races show America lacking in the past 10 years.

yeah, Lawrences are not euros but come through Australia's and Europe's amateur system. Heck Jett did 2 amateur races in America, Hunter has done 0. 
2018 mini o's, Dazzy Lawrence had an interview with Swapmoto, said if Geico Honda keeps Jett from going pro once he turns 16, Jett was going to go back to Europe to race MX2 for 2019/2020 as he felt the amateur tracks in America was sending Jetts progression backwards...

 

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Press516
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7/21/2026 8:46pm
Press516 wrote:
The question is flawed…If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system...

The question is flawed…

If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system, American slump, etc.

As posed, the answer is, they aren’t…. The 2 fastest MX riders on the planet are not euros and race in America.  Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator.  

decano51 wrote:
 "Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator..." agree...  so is the world Junior championships.. but i don't understand that argument from your side.. both races show...

 "Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator..." agree...  so is the world Junior championships.. but i don't understand that argument from your side.. both races show America lacking in the past 10 years.

yeah, Lawrences are not euros but come through Australia's and Europe's amateur system. Heck Jett did 2 amateur races in America, Hunter has done 0. 
2018 mini o's, Dazzy Lawrence had an interview with Swapmoto, said if Geico Honda keeps Jett from going pro once he turns 16, Jett was going to go back to Europe to race MX2 for 2019/2020 as he felt the amateur tracks in America was sending Jetts progression backwards...

 

Your comprehension of my post is lacking…. I said if comparing euros to Americans, you can certainly come up with some ideas why.

But if just saying euros are faster, the evidence doesn’t clearly support that.

MXoN podiums have had a lot of AMA riders on them.  And not just when the race is in the US.  And Lucas was just here and we saw the results.  The back to back GP champ is here and we see those results weekly.

You guys love to point out “Americans”…. The OP said nothing about Americans.

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decano51
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7/21/2026 9:54pm
Press516 wrote:
The question is flawed…If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system...

The question is flawed…

If it was why are euros faster than Americans?  Then you can probably come up with some viable answers, like the amateur system, American slump, etc.

As posed, the answer is, they aren’t…. The 2 fastest MX riders on the planet are not euros and race in America.  Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator.  

decano51 wrote:
 "Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator..." agree...  so is the world Junior championships.. but i don't understand that argument from your side.. both races show...

 "Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator..." agree...  so is the world Junior championships.. but i don't understand that argument from your side.. both races show America lacking in the past 10 years.

yeah, Lawrences are not euros but come through Australia's and Europe's amateur system. Heck Jett did 2 amateur races in America, Hunter has done 0. 
2018 mini o's, Dazzy Lawrence had an interview with Swapmoto, said if Geico Honda keeps Jett from going pro once he turns 16, Jett was going to go back to Europe to race MX2 for 2019/2020 as he felt the amateur tracks in America was sending Jetts progression backwards...

 

Press516 wrote:
Your comprehension of my post is lacking…. I said if comparing euros to Americans, you can certainly come up with some ideas why.But if just saying...

Your comprehension of my post is lacking…. I said if comparing euros to Americans, you can certainly come up with some ideas why.

But if just saying euros are faster, the evidence doesn’t clearly support that.

MXoN podiums have had a lot of AMA riders on them.  And not just when the race is in the US.  And Lucas was just here and we saw the results.  The back to back GP champ is here and we see those results weekly.

You guys love to point out “Americans”…. The OP said nothing about Americans.

Wait... what actually defines a "Euro" to you?

From what you're saying, because Lucas Coenen raced an AMA round last weekend, he's suddenly not considered a Euro rider anymore and should be labelled an AMA rider?

To me, a Euro rider is someone who was born in Europe and came through the GP/European development system before racing AMA. I'd still call Roczen, DV12, Marvin Musquin, Herlings, Prado, Coenen... all Euro riders, even if they race or have raced in America.

I think we're talking about two different things. You're taking the wording literally, while I'm talking about the development pathway. Nobody's saying a European passport magically makes someone faster. The discussion is about why so many of today's top riders are coming through the European system.

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prozach
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7/21/2026 10:03pm

Blah blah blah.  To say European riders are faster and better is at the very least very subjective.  

Recently, Both vialle and Prado had huge success in mxgp and couldn't duplicate that in America motocross. Hunter, Jett, Sexton, and Tomac have all been arguably the fastest riders in the world at one time or another the last 5-7 years.  Deagan is right there...

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decano51
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7/21/2026 10:14pm
prozach wrote:
Blah blah blah.  To say European riders are faster and better is at the very least very subjective.  Recently, Both vialle and Prado had huge success...

Blah blah blah.  To say European riders are faster and better is at the very least very subjective.  

Recently, Both vialle and Prado had huge success in mxgp and couldn't duplicate that in America motocross. Hunter, Jett, Sexton, and Tomac have all been arguably the fastest riders in the world at one time or another the last 5-7 years.  Deagan is right there...

I mean.. lets look at who Deegan has lost a championship against..

  • Hunter Lawrence 
  • Tim Vialle
  • Jo Shimoda
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Press516
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7/21/2026 10:41pm
decano51 wrote:
 "Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator..." agree...  so is the world Junior championships.. but i don't understand that argument from your side.. both races show...

 "Recent MXoN results are a decent indicator..." agree...  so is the world Junior championships.. but i don't understand that argument from your side.. both races show America lacking in the past 10 years.

yeah, Lawrences are not euros but come through Australia's and Europe's amateur system. Heck Jett did 2 amateur races in America, Hunter has done 0. 
2018 mini o's, Dazzy Lawrence had an interview with Swapmoto, said if Geico Honda keeps Jett from going pro once he turns 16, Jett was going to go back to Europe to race MX2 for 2019/2020 as he felt the amateur tracks in America was sending Jetts progression backwards...

 

Press516 wrote:
Your comprehension of my post is lacking…. I said if comparing euros to Americans, you can certainly come up with some ideas why.But if just saying...

Your comprehension of my post is lacking…. I said if comparing euros to Americans, you can certainly come up with some ideas why.

But if just saying euros are faster, the evidence doesn’t clearly support that.

MXoN podiums have had a lot of AMA riders on them.  And not just when the race is in the US.  And Lucas was just here and we saw the results.  The back to back GP champ is here and we see those results weekly.

You guys love to point out “Americans”…. The OP said nothing about Americans.

decano51 wrote:
Wait... what actually defines a "Euro" to you?From what you're saying, because Lucas Coenen raced an AMA round last weekend, he's suddenly not considered a Euro...

Wait... what actually defines a "Euro" to you?

From what you're saying, because Lucas Coenen raced an AMA round last weekend, he's suddenly not considered a Euro rider anymore and should be labelled an AMA rider?

To me, a Euro rider is someone who was born in Europe and came through the GP/European development system before racing AMA. I'd still call Roczen, DV12, Marvin Musquin, Herlings, Prado, Coenen... all Euro riders, even if they race or have raced in America.

I think we're talking about two different things. You're taking the wording literally, while I'm talking about the development pathway. Nobody's saying a European passport magically makes someone faster. The discussion is about why so many of today's top riders are coming through the European system.

The wording is literal…. And Jett rode 1 year of 65’s and 1 year of 85’s and 1 year of EMX.  Only 3 years.  But now in AMA for what, 8 years now?  He learned it all in those 3 years, eh?

How would I consider Lucas anything  but a euro?  He came over and got a P2 overall and DNF/DNS.  4 motos and didn’t win any of them.  

Prado and Vialle in MX?  

I simply can’t see it the way you do…

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decano51
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7/21/2026 10:59pm
Press516 wrote:
Your comprehension of my post is lacking…. I said if comparing euros to Americans, you can certainly come up with some ideas why.But if just saying...

Your comprehension of my post is lacking…. I said if comparing euros to Americans, you can certainly come up with some ideas why.

But if just saying euros are faster, the evidence doesn’t clearly support that.

MXoN podiums have had a lot of AMA riders on them.  And not just when the race is in the US.  And Lucas was just here and we saw the results.  The back to back GP champ is here and we see those results weekly.

You guys love to point out “Americans”…. The OP said nothing about Americans.

decano51 wrote:
Wait... what actually defines a "Euro" to you?From what you're saying, because Lucas Coenen raced an AMA round last weekend, he's suddenly not considered a Euro...

Wait... what actually defines a "Euro" to you?

From what you're saying, because Lucas Coenen raced an AMA round last weekend, he's suddenly not considered a Euro rider anymore and should be labelled an AMA rider?

To me, a Euro rider is someone who was born in Europe and came through the GP/European development system before racing AMA. I'd still call Roczen, DV12, Marvin Musquin, Herlings, Prado, Coenen... all Euro riders, even if they race or have raced in America.

I think we're talking about two different things. You're taking the wording literally, while I'm talking about the development pathway. Nobody's saying a European passport magically makes someone faster. The discussion is about why so many of today's top riders are coming through the European system.

Press516 wrote:
The wording is literal…. And Jett rode 1 year of 65’s and 1 year of 85’s and 1 year of EMX.  Only 3 years.  But now...

The wording is literal…. And Jett rode 1 year of 65’s and 1 year of 85’s and 1 year of EMX.  Only 3 years.  But now in AMA for what, 8 years now?  He learned it all in those 3 years, eh?

How would I consider Lucas anything  but a euro?  He came over and got a P2 overall and DNF/DNS.  4 motos and didn’t win any of them.  

Prado and Vialle in MX?  

I simply can’t see it the way you do…

worth looking into Autism 🤝

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urbanlift707
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7/21/2026 11:09pm

What if the answer is that AMA riders are actually faster and mxon results prove that? In the last 5 years of mxon,  AMA riders make up less than one-fifth of the starting field, yet they account for about 43% of podiums. In other words, AMA riders have been significantly overrepresented on the podium relative to their numbers in the field, while MXGP riders still make up the majority of podium finishers simply because they comprise the vast majority of entrants. Stats there say AMA  riders have the edge, but really I wouldn’t be bold enough yo say either side is better or has the edge. They are pretty damn equal. Ya’ll remember 2016 Glen Helen mxgp results? Ama rider spanked the euros. Then mxon 21 mxgp riders get all the podiums spots. It just changes but to say one side is better is a stretch imo. 

 

 


 

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7/21/2026 11:49pm

Fast kids are a dime a dozen these days.  They are burnt out by 18 from riding 4-5 days a week for the last 10 years.  Getting 50% off from every company they even try to send a resume to at age 10.  Even dealers arent getting 50% off anything.  The kids have made it already.  Why bother to keep doing it?  

7/22/2026 12:04am

In the 80s/90s when USA was dominating the MXdN, it was said that the US riders were better BECAUSE they raced SX. Something about increased intensity..

30 years later the US riders aren’t as fast BECAUSE they ride SX… 

Weird. 

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CPR
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7/22/2026 2:05am

You know you’re in trouble when you have to shift the argument to “AMA riders” instead of American 😂

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Speeddemon73
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7/22/2026 4:07am Edited Date/Time 7/22/2026 4:10am

I would say its because the overseas riders don't spend their adolescent moto careers living at a training facility racing the same people over and over only to come out to race once or twice a year for a big amateur event. For some reason Americans have this mentality that in order to get to the highest levels in this sport you need to send your kid to live at a training facility. Don't get me wrong, these training facilities have their place, but at some point you need to stop practicing and spread your wings and actually get experience doing gate drops on different tracks in different places against people you don't know. Ricky, James, Chad, and all the other greats didn't have professional training until they became an actual factory level professional. A lot of the euro guys will race the British Championship or their respective countries series on their off time to stay sharp. What's the old saying? "You can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs." Parents should put their money towards travelling to races, not parking a travel trailer at a training facility. 

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