Over the past few weeks I’ve had the chance to listen to a few post-race debriefs from people around top MX teams regarding rider performance and timing data. What struck me most was just how dramatically different those conversations were from the nonstop anti-Deegan circle jerk that's been littering this Vital forum lately.
If someone only hung out in this moto forum they'd come away thinking Deegan is getting annihilated everywhere on the track and isn't even in the same universe as the Lawrence brothers. Meanwhile, the guys who provide rider support and analyze this stuff don’t seem nearly as convinced by that storyline.
Lawrence fans or not, everyone knows they are still the benchmark. I’ve yet to see anyone credible claim Deegan is better than Jett or Hunter. However, Deegan is closing the gap much faster than most here want to admit. A large portion of the Deegan haters here seem very determined to prove he’s farther off the pace than the numbers suggest.
Haters love to say he’s getting dropped by 20/30 seconds and take things out of context, but the timing sheets show Deegan is improving very quickly. By High Point he’s matching or beating the Lawrences in certain sections of the track and he’s running comparable lap times while steadily closing the gap to the brothers. I don’t think James Stewart and other industry insiders are "high." They're just looking at the racing objectively and seeing things that many guys here either don't see- or refuse to acknowledge.
What I find most amusing is how emotionally invested so many grown men here have become in proving that a 20-year-old 450 rookie isn't as good as he is. Like him or not, this is one of the most impressive 450 starts in recent memory, especially when you consider he’s racing the two best riders in the world. But somewhere along the way a ton of vitards stopped enjoying the racing and started obsessively rooting against a personality because his character and marketing strategy got under their skin. I’m not saying you have to like him or his “chirping”, but to spend your days constantly piling onto every anti-Deegan thread feels more like a personal vendetta than the normal bench racing and shit talking this place used to be.
It’s become obvious that while the teams have been studying the data, the haters have been studying social media clips, and it’s no surprise they reach very different conclusions. I don’t have every number down to the tenths because I was taking notes on the fly, but the following info is plenty accurate enough to paint the picture that Deegan is doing much better than what you read here.
I won't spend much time on Thunder Valley because that race has been permanently labeled the "cheater race." Fair enough. But even after you completely remove the controversial “cheater” Sector 3 from Moto 1, Deegan still won roughly one-third of the sector battles against the Lawrence brothers. That is a far cry from the "getting destroyed everywhere" mindset around here. I observed this while watching the live broadcast and mentioned here it in the race thread, but apparently the VitalMX Deegan hate squad was watching a different race than I was in which Haiden’s only advantage was his cheater line. Personally, I thought Deegan’s Moto 1 against the Lawrences was pretty damn impressive with being able to run their pace or beat them at times. I agree with the penalties in Sector 3, although I think a few of the laps might have been questionable as we see riders running over track markers all the time, and that is a slippery slope of enforcement.
Thunder Valley showed Deegan wasn't nearly as far off as people claimed, and High Point is where the data gets really interesting. I knew he looked fast, but some of the timing data really surprised the hell out of me. Honestly, the thing that surprised me the most wasn't his speed—it was how fast the kid figured the track out.
Deegan went from winning one-third of the sector battles at Thunder Valley to winning over half (about 57%) against Jett at High Point, even after removing the final lap when Jett backed it down. What surprised me even more was seeing him outright win several sectors against both Jett and Hunter. He also set a faster best lap than Jett, posted a faster average lap time than Jett, and did it all while working through traffic and trying to get around the widest bike in the series (Prado).
That's what makes his ride so damn impressive for a rookie. The Lawrence brothers have been absolutely dominating starts this year, and that’s a bigger deal than most people seem to realize. (https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/hrc-hole-shot-predictions-2026-mx) Starting up front means clean air, clear vision, no roost, and the freedom to take your preferred lines instead of burning time trying to get around other riders. I think a lot of people underestimate how big that clean-air advantage is when they’re comparing lap times.
The numbers against Hunter might even be more impressive with Deegan being able to flip one sector from losing roughly 75% of the battles in Moto 1 to winning roughly 70% in Moto 2. He also reduced what was about a 0.7 second-per-lap deficit to Hunter in Moto 1 down to roughly 0.2 seconds per lap in Moto 2.
That data doesn’t paint a picture of a rider getting smoked to me. It looks more like a young 450 rookie figuring things out. If this were Jo Shimoda putting up these numbers against Jett and Hunter, this place would be losing its mind over what an incredible 450 debut it has been.
Can you guys imagine how boring this series would be without Deegan? We already lost Tomac, Chase, J Cooper, etc and we don’t need to lose anyone else, especially the guy bringing the entertainment to the series. Do you really want to see a bunch of Cole Davies style interviews every week with alternating Jett and Hunter corporate “yeah got a good start, bike felt good, hit my lines, and had a good flow”? I prefer to tune in and wait for any surprise fireworks. I love the roosting and bird flipping by Jett, and Deegan’s interviews are always the most awaited because you never know what is going to come out of his mouth. I’m just happy to watch these fast kids race without having a snoozer every weekend.
It would be nice if everyone can dial down the extreme hate a bit that’s been contaminating this forum. It’s not just Deegan, it’s been Anderson, Chase, Webb, etc. We are all here for the love of motocross, and IMO too many guys seem to be here for the sole purpose of shitting on riders. It's really crazy how the exact same race can paint two completely different pictures depending on whether you're looking at the timing sheets or your emotions.
TLDR
^^^
Bullet points?
Holy crap dude. You must be exhausted.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Free shipping: VITALMX
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
No one has time to read that.
Majority of the people on this forum can agree Deegan is FAST. If not, well, you got your blinders on. Also, what the majority of people on this forum can’t stand is his constant attitude and the way he portrays himself. Talked a big game before he was even in the class. Hasn’t backed up the cockiness and the self righteous attitude. A lot of “believe the hype” shenanigans going on. 2 things can be true at once. I know, it’s a hard concept to understand. The guy is blazing fast and super impressive for his rookie year, like VERY impressive. But he’s also a raging dong lord who thrives off tmz drama. At least Brian Deegan’s douchiness was original when he was younger. This younger wannabe carbon copy is a buster.
“If this were Jo Shimoda putting up these numbers against Jett and Hunter, this place would be losing its mind over what an incredible 450 debut it has been.”. Would you care to elaborate further on this speculation?
Your pushing shit up hill trying to talk sense/facts in this echo chamber that has become vital. Just wait until he wins one and enjoy watching the squids melt down.
It's not just X; it's Y.
Rather than X, Y.
More than X, Y.
Keep your AI slop to yourself, it's so obvious you forgot to edit out the ChatGPT accent.
who the fuck wants to read all that
if you wrote all that and it wasn't AI you deserve a longer reply than this, but i don't think the vital narrative primarily has to do with his actual ability or potential, but more the character side of things.
his accomplishments are overshadowed by his ego, and this may rightly or wrongly color people's objectivity when it comes to his results; or more likely, it causes his proponents to overlook the credit his detractors DO give him, because the credit comes with criticism as well, which his acolytes are loath to receive.
Oh geezus who gives a shit. It’s not that serious. Talk about being emotionally invested? You obviously are with that drawn out post.
Datas are datas, and we can use other number to show that there is still quite the gap between them.
Numbers don't lie, they just tell differents truth.
This sums it up in a Nutshell.
A great, succinct post C.Worthy !
And, I'd say they - the Deegans - would get more 'clicks / likes / views' if they didn't indulge in the crap they do.
He's an Extremely Talented rider, that has, potentially, a Massive future, but, by His / his Dad's conduct, I think he's doing himself a serious disservice.
Irrelevant comparison
ok
What makes this irrelevant? That they raced against different people? That it’s one American versus three foreigners? What’s the problem with comparing them?
Looking this up reminded me again how impressive Dylan's rookie season was. He straight up smoked Kenny, Tomac, Sewxton, Musquin etc. Won 4 out of the first 5 overalls in an absolutely stacked class
Pit Row
Oh man another BDB "I own my own company and do this in boring meetings" crashout.
Its life lessons that deegan hasnt been taught. I started racing at 14, When i was 15 i started winning a lot. I started bragging about it to people. My dad got pissed. He said look son, i want people to like you. If you brag about winning, pretty soon people wont want to see you win. Thats whats happening to Deegan. People WANT to see him lose because hes a sore winner and braggart. No one denies his ability.
Haidens the only one going up against the brothers. Take them out of the equation and he’s cleaning house. Maybe irrelevant was the wrong word but its apples to oranges
I guess then we can't compare anything ever lol
This one time, at band camp....
It’s “irrelevant” because he doesn’t agree with it. It’s the Deeganite version of “nuh-uh!”
You can compare any number of things. Some will make more sense than others.
Far from a “deeganite” as you put it. Being from nz naturally I’m a fan of the bro’s. Enjoying watching them & Cole Davies cleaning up the American series.
Good post Bomber. Couldn’t agree more. I’m not a big fan of the brothers but I respect the talent they both possess. Huge fan of Danger Boy , I like what he brings on and off the track.💯
Post a reply to: Deegan: Reality vs. the Vital Narrative