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Hey Brian, how many accounts do you actually have?
The most irrelevant stats in the world. He's in the 450 class now bruv...
It's the same 250 guys Jett raced.
It's strange how some of you guys act about a dirtbike race.
I think that bravery is, as you say, connected to fearlessness. But there’s nothing especially praiseworthy about that. Bravery can, in that sense, be the product overconfidence just as easily as justifiable confidence. People get braver - and stupider - when they are drunk.
Courage, on the other hand, is a virtue. The courageous person acts despite being afraid. Aristotle thought of it as the rational mid point between cowardice and rashness. GSP spoke off being terrified before his fights. He was courageous because he overcame his fear to prevail and he did it because he had reason to be confident. This is much more virtuous than simply walking into the cage unafraid.
Braveness isn’t somehow better than courage and if it were I’m not sure we have basis for an assessment.
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I am talking about bravery as it relates and only as it relates to sports and competition. In the face of greater competition, bravery is immensely praiseworthy. In your example of drunkenness, bravery is a commonly misused term there, when people refer to drunken bravery what they actually mean is recklessness or carelessness, neither of which are bravery in the true sense.
We can measure acts of bravery and courage side by side, and Haiden attempting to take on and defeat the Lawrences is the clear cut winner of bravery and courage over Jett’s management of his injury. What Haiden is attempting to do is seen as the undoable.
Not all injuries get better with time. A couple of my injuries got worse with time. My neck being the biggest one.
Mate, you're full of shit. There's nothing brave about a kid who's raced dirt bikes his whole life turning up to race dirt bikes. He's completely prepared, fit, healthy, supremely confident (or was) and on a good team. These guys are not firefighters running into a burning building. And we don't need an essay about the differences between bravery and courage.
It's like listening to an AI tell you you're brave for doing literally anything
Davies ran a faster lap in 2nd motos than deegan did…..doesn’t that mean Davies would beat deegan yesterday? That’s what the bed bugs said when deegs ran a faster lap than the 450s……like twice lol
Deegan surely will work hard on improving, and probably will measurably get better. I also recognise that he truly believes he can be the best. The question is can he improve enough?
It’s a method that’s worked well for him in the past, but in the words of Mike Tyson - “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face”.
STOP IT!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yep, all that will get you is a seat with all the other contenders who thought they could surpass him.
Colloquially, bravery and courage tend to be used interchangeably. You list fearlessness and belief that you can prevail despite having reason to believe you can’t as defining bravery. You offered a definition and I used a counter example to show that it is deficient. A drunk idiot that picks a fight with a bigger man has met that definition. This is what drunk idiots do - while also being reckless and stupid, which is a reason to think your definition has failed to identify a virtue. You have to have a reasonable definition of the principle you’re applying before you can sensibly apply it to sports or anything else.
Bravery, as you’re describing it, is actually irrational, as it’s belief contrary to evidence. That’s not what bravery is. I’d suggest that a soldier who fights bravely despite having every reason to believe he’ll die isn’t fighting because he believes that he can win, but because he is fighting for an ideal that is worth dying for. As such, he can be completely rational in his bravery. The bravery is evidence that he is willing to sacrifice for something bigger than himself, and the bravery is good in so far as it allows him to act despite knowing that it’s not likely going to go well. It is not an irrational belief that he will accomplish the impossible. Irrational beliefs can be useful for motivation and can actually make you perform better (people with terminal illnesses with a low chance of survival actually increase their chances of survival by believing that they will survive). But this is optimism, not bravery.
I am absolutely befuddled when I try to find the basis for your conclusion. It doesn’t follow from what you have said - if it does the connections haven’t been made. It is far from clear cut. If it was clear, you wouldn’t have to say so.
The word bravery has zero place in any discussion about professional sports. There might be lots of words to describe what these guys do but bravery isn’t one of them.
I’m indulging my own interests in my essays. I apologize if I’m overdoing it, which I tend towards. What you said is excellent and more to the point.
Chase was within a few seconds for Jett for three quarters of the 2023 outdoor season and walked away with nothing. Barely even showed him a wheel.
Up there with “looked fast at the test track”…
Pit Row
A drunk man is by definition irrational and is therefore useless as an example in this discussion unless you just want to water down the definition of bravery.
As I have described it, a drunk man in no way meets the same definition of bravery as say someone like David vs Goliath. David was not irrational in his bravery, but he was outmatched, outgunned, and up against a much stronger force on paper, and still prevailed while others cowered. Brave actions set an example that odds can be overcome and tales of bravery stand the test of time. It is obvious who David and Goliath is in the topic we are discussing.
Soldiers do pay a steep price for their bravery, far steeper than athletes, and that’s why the highest military honors often go to those who have exemplified great bravery. The military distinguishes bravery clearly as an exceptional trait worthy of the highest praise. They understand the difference between real bravery and drunkenness. Perhaps you should to.
The lack of respect you have for the dangers of this sport and the risk these guys take every time they step to the line is on full display. Pathetic.
Here’s a link. You can read up on how motocross racing is statically more dangerous than firefighting.
Bravery implies a level of fear about consequences that are serious for the individual, disastrous or life threatening.
A high performing athlete taking on the best in their sport has none of that.
A level of danger yes, but doing it voluntarily for nothing but their own glory and financial gain.
Let’s not make them something they aren’t. Respect for their abilities but they aren’t martyrs or heroes to society.
You said: “Fearlessness and willingness while staring in the face of a much greater power and believing that you can still be victorious in spite of every conceivable metric being stacked against you—that is bravery.”
If someone offers a definition, you can test it to see if it is too broad (includes things that shouldn’t meet the definition) by citing a counter example. If you define “cat” as a four legged mammal with a tail” I can point out that a dog has the properties stated in the definition but is not a cat. It won’t do to say “but I didn’t mean that”. Your definition doesn’t successfully pick out all and only the things intended.
You offered a definition of bravery. I understand the difference between drunkenness and bravery. I’m pointing out that your definition also includes the drunken idiot who thinks he can take on a much tougher guy despite having no reason to believe that. I’m saying that your definition fails.
It’s not even conceptually coherent to believe that all the evidence says that you won’t succeed but you believe you will succeed. To believe that the evidence supports the truth of a proposition is to believe that proposition. It makes no sense to say “I believe the evidence supports “not P” but I believe “P”.
Isn’t David virtuous because of his faith? He believed that God was on his side so he’d prevail. So he didn’t believe that the odds were against him. More importantly: Are you seriously suggesting that Jett is Goliath and Haiden is David? This is getting very strange. It’s worse than just a clumsy attempt at moral philosophy. It’s downright creepy to be trying to portray Haiden that way.
What are their points at? Ohh thats right one is 3rd in points and the other is 7th. Hang in there Prado, you may catch up to RJ Hampshire eventually.
Thanks for writing something intelligible. I simply disagree. I think given the mortal risks of this sport, similar to say MMA or boxing, every rider at the very top level is exemplifying quite a bit of bravery every time they step to the line. These guys are warriors, albeit for entertainment. When a small bike guy takes direct aim at the very best in the world in the big bike class, like James Stewart vs RC, or Deegs vs Jett, and they mean it, I think the bravery displayed is enormous as the consequences could be catastrophic. Going after the champ has proven to be a health hazard many times before. There’s a reason Chase Sexton still pisses himself every time he lines up next to Jett. If your last name is Deegan though, people will change the definition of bravery just so you can’t reap any praise. Fuck that.
What an unbelievably ridiculously stupid comment.
His bike blew up on the last 2 laps of moto 1 and DNF'd 🤦🏼
You are overplaying the likelihood aspect. Elite riders do get injured, a small handful suffer life altering or life threatening injuries and an even smaller number have died.
There is a threat of me being injured or maybe dying when I get in my car but that doesn’t make me brave.
I kind of expected Deegan to have a decent ride at a hardpack track. I think alot of people are reading a little bit too much into the first moto.
The race line was the only fast line. Hunter kept losing time trying to find spots to pass. But he was always going to get him.
Although Deegan has shown he can get third. He is not the 3rd best rider. He just will be on his good days. (Great rides though)
Sadly for everyone Jett showed his true stripes for one lap in that 2nd moto. 2 secs or more a lap faster than anyone without the name Lawrence.
Like others have said, unfortunately his career is during the Lawrences. Could dilute a great riders results substantially. Ala KW14. Although I think Kevin only rode well when he mentally thought there was a chance.
Thanks champ👍 Not gonna waste my time with your link.
It is interesting to compare Haiden's debut in 450 outdoors and Kay's debut in MXGP. Deegan has quite the speed but lacks finesse, while Kay misses a touch of speed but his technique is so much on point.
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