Short talks about the 350

grover738
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grover738
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 3:00pm
http://www.racerxonline.com/2011/01/13/racer-x-films-andrew-short


Interesting stuff from Shorty. Not the usual "bike is fine, it was me". More like, it was me, I need to ride different because I'm on a different bike.

He talks about the need to round his corners off and avoid "pointing and shooting", which I'm sure would help. But, if you're on a track full of 450s, and the guy behind you is pointing and shooting every corner, especially 180's, and you're rounding everything off, aren't you going to get stuffed a lot? Plus, with 18 450s and 2 350s out there, the lines and ruts are going to be laid by the guys pointing and shooting.

I think 350s can be competitive with 450s in lap times with the right rider. Not sure that will translate to doing well in a race.
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FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 1/13/2011 1:26pm
1/13/2011 1:26pm
Gotta respect the smiley faced assassian for racing a 350 vs a bunch of 450s. I'm impressed with how good the bike looks so far. It seems to be in a class of its own though, Too fast for 250s and kinda akward for the 450s.
dsklein25
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dsklein25 1/13/2011 1:29pm
1/13/2011 1:29pm
Good interview but I think he'll end up missing the HP. Think about it, if the bike's cant weigh under 220lbs and canards 450 is about 221lbs (thats the rumor) and he has 100cc's more than the 350 and the two bikes weigh about the same. The extra HP would make the difference.
Rudeboy119
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Rudeboy119 1/13/2011 1:30pm
1/13/2011 1:30pm
has anyone ever found out why KTM is taking a 100 cc disadvantage? Its not like they were made to my an AMA rule or anything
R-acer
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R-acer 1/13/2011 1:43pm
1/13/2011 1:43pm
So what I got out of that was: The 350 is NOT better for running against 450's like they thought it was going to be, and now they need to regroup, and find a way to make it work, From changing riding style to finding more power.
All this to only try and break even with the 450's, never mind beat them.

I feel like they are going to have to try and extract so much power from an engine100cc's less, that it will probably be less reliable.

The Shop

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tormentography 1/13/2011 1:44pm
1/13/2011 1:44pm
Rudeboy119 wrote:
has anyone ever found out why KTM is taking a 100 cc disadvantage? Its not like they were made to my an AMA rule or anything
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster.

The thing with Short is that he'd have the same results on a 450 just cause the field is so deep.
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Pdub 1/13/2011 1:48pm
1/13/2011 1:48pm
Couple of years ago there was a lot of moaning and wailing and gnashing of teeth about how 450s are too powerful for supercross and tear up the jump faces and mere mortals can't control 'em, and on and on and on... where are those prophets now? LOL

That said, I think a 350 can win a supercross sprint against a 450, but the rider has got to be up to the task. And the bike can't simply be a 450 with less displacement, it's got to be a completely re-scaled bike, right at the weight limit... it's OWN weight limit at that. That'll never happen...
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ATKpilot99 1/13/2011 1:48pm
1/13/2011 1:48pm
R-acer wrote:
So what I got out of that was: The 350 is NOT better for running against 450's like they thought it was going to be, and...
So what I got out of that was: The 350 is NOT better for running against 450's like they thought it was going to be, and now they need to regroup, and find a way to make it work, From changing riding style to finding more power.
All this to only try and break even with the 450's, never mind beat them.

I feel like they are going to have to try and extract so much power from an engine100cc's less, that it will probably be less reliable.
And all this when they have a 450.
YellowZonker 1/13/2011 1:52pm
1/13/2011 1:52pm
I would have thought it would be obvious you would have to ride it more like a 250 which is why I thought Pourcel would have been perfect. It would be a lot harder to teach an established 450 guy to go back to a different style than to have a 250 guy moving up that already uses that style.
dsklein25
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dsklein25 1/13/2011 1:52pm
1/13/2011 1:52pm
Pdub wrote:
Couple of years ago there was a lot of moaning and wailing and gnashing of teeth about how 450s are too powerful for supercross and tear...
Couple of years ago there was a lot of moaning and wailing and gnashing of teeth about how 450s are too powerful for supercross and tear up the jump faces and mere mortals can't control 'em, and on and on and on... where are those prophets now? LOL

That said, I think a 350 can win a supercross sprint against a 450, but the rider has got to be up to the task. And the bike can't simply be a 450 with less displacement, it's got to be a completely re-scaled bike, right at the weight limit... it's OWN weight limit at that. That'll never happen...
You're right. Unless they allow the 350 weigh less than 220lbs it will always be at a disadvantage.
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mattmatt300 1/13/2011 1:54pm
1/13/2011 1:54pm
i think theyre just making themselves look silly racing the 350 against the 450s. the people who want a 350 will buy one regardless. id love to have a 350 myself because they seem to be the perfect balance of power for a weekend warror and i could care less how they do in supercross. they should be trying to gain every advantage they can against the competition not putting themselves in a hole from the start.
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lucero10x 1/13/2011 2:00pm
1/13/2011 2:00pm
tormentography wrote:
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster. The...
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster.

The thing with Short is that he'd have the same results on a 450 just cause the field is so deep.
Can't argue with this. That 350 does look pretty bad ass, though. KTM just knows how to make a bike beautiful.
aggiemoto99
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aggiemoto99 1/13/2011 2:12pm
1/13/2011 2:12pm
I think once they get everything just right with power delivery (and actual output), gearing, and he gets enough racing under his belt to get used to it in a race condition - he will get much better come race day.

Until his laps are faster than the fastest 250f riders...it's not the horsepower holding him back.
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mccread 1/13/2011 2:14pm
1/13/2011 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 1/13/2011 2:17pm
mattmatt300 wrote:
i think theyre just making themselves look silly racing the 350 against the 450s. the people who want a 350 will buy one regardless. id love...
i think theyre just making themselves look silly racing the 350 against the 450s. the people who want a 350 will buy one regardless. id love to have a 350 myself because they seem to be the perfect balance of power for a weekend warror and i could care less how they do in supercross. they should be trying to gain every advantage they can against the competition not putting themselves in a hole from the start.
AC did fine on it - its not the bike. The field is just twice as stacked this year than last year. The guys in front of short all have big bike Sx titles/win and lites sx titles ( bar Metty who beat him outdoors). It is not like he is getting beat by guys who shouldnt beat him.

Someone will finish 10th every week who shouldn't just because the field is stacked. Short will get better- Tedesco went from 1st to 7th and he rode good.. Short is probably similar in talent to him and they finished not far apart.
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mattmatt300 1/13/2011 2:19pm
1/13/2011 2:19pm
mattmatt300 wrote:
i think theyre just making themselves look silly racing the 350 against the 450s. the people who want a 350 will buy one regardless. id love...
i think theyre just making themselves look silly racing the 350 against the 450s. the people who want a 350 will buy one regardless. id love to have a 350 myself because they seem to be the perfect balance of power for a weekend warror and i could care less how they do in supercross. they should be trying to gain every advantage they can against the competition not putting themselves in a hole from the start.
mccread wrote:
AC did fine on it - its not the bike. The field is just twice as stacked this year than last year. The guys in front...
AC did fine on it - its not the bike. The field is just twice as stacked this year than last year. The guys in front of short all have big bike Sx titles/win and lites sx titles ( bar Metty who beat him outdoors). It is not like he is getting beat by guys who shouldnt beat him.

Someone will finish 10th every week who shouldn't just because the field is stacked. Short will get better- Tedesco went from 1st to 7th and he rode good.. Short is probably similar in talent to him and they finished not far apart.
i agree that ac did put a hurtin on some 450s on it. my point is that guys like andrew short and mike alessi arent on ac's level. they need every advantage they can get to be competitive and putting them on 100cc less bike is a bad way to start.
NV825
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NV825 1/13/2011 2:20pm
1/13/2011 2:20pm
I really want to see Stewart on the 350, I'm sure he could win on it just fine.
sbarrington314 1/13/2011 2:21pm
1/13/2011 2:21pm
id be curious to know shorts times at ktm track on 350 and 450.
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lucero10x 1/13/2011 2:25pm
1/13/2011 2:25pm
R-acer wrote:
So what I got out of that was: The 350 is NOT better for running against 450's like they thought it was going to be, and...
So what I got out of that was: The 350 is NOT better for running against 450's like they thought it was going to be, and now they need to regroup, and find a way to make it work, From changing riding style to finding more power.
All this to only try and break even with the 450's, never mind beat them.

I feel like they are going to have to try and extract so much power from an engine100cc's less, that it will probably be less reliable.
Would you hurry and lose a bet so you will go away till you have the money to pay up, again?
R-acer
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R-acer 1/13/2011 2:26pm
1/13/2011 2:26pm
NV825 wrote:
I really want to see Stewart on the 350, I'm sure he could win on it just fine.
That's Stewart, he'll find a way to win on anything... .....BUT it shouldnt take Stewart to have to ride it to win.
IF the 350 really had all this advantage over the 450 like they were saying, then BOTH Short and Alessi would have looked better on it....they BOTH look worst.

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Spat24 1/13/2011 3:02pm
1/13/2011 3:02pm
If Short is already saying he needs to ride it different and round the turns to keep the speed up, it looks like the power may be an issue. The start was also concerning - two 450 holeshot artists get on the 350 and did not get the best of starts.

The reason both are riding the 350 is strictly about $$$$. The are building the 350 and need to get some exposure for it to sell them.

But we do need to remember - this was the first race. Let Roger and team sort out the bugs. If the Phoenix results are similiar to A1, some sole searching may be in order.
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jamma10 1/13/2011 3:02pm
1/13/2011 3:02pm
NV825 wrote:
I really want to see Stewart on the 350, I'm sure he could win on it just fine.
R-acer wrote:
That's Stewart, he'll find a way to win on anything... .....BUT it shouldnt take Stewart to have to ride it to win. [b]IF[/b] the 350 really...
That's Stewart, he'll find a way to win on anything... .....BUT it shouldnt take Stewart to have to ride it to win.
IF the 350 really had all this advantage over the 450 like they were saying, then BOTH Short and Alessi would have looked better on it....they BOTH look worst.
And other than a bad start... which happens in racing from time to time, explain exactly how Short looked worse and why it can be directly attributed to the bike.
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jamma10 1/13/2011 3:03pm
1/13/2011 3:03pm
Spat24 wrote:
If Short is already saying he needs to ride it different and round the turns to keep the speed up, it looks like the power may...
If Short is already saying he needs to ride it different and round the turns to keep the speed up, it looks like the power may be an issue. The start was also concerning - two 450 holeshot artists get on the 350 and did not get the best of starts.

The reason both are riding the 350 is strictly about $$$$. The are building the 350 and need to get some exposure for it to sell them.

But we do need to remember - this was the first race. Let Roger and team sort out the bugs. If the Phoenix results are similiar to A1, some sole searching may be in order.
ALESSI WAS 3RD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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jamma10 1/13/2011 3:03pm
1/13/2011 3:03pm
some of you people are nuts I swear.
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TerryK 1/13/2011 3:04pm
1/13/2011 3:04pm
dsklein25 wrote:
Good interview but I think he'll end up missing the HP. Think about it, if the bike's cant weigh under 220lbs and canards 450 is about...
Good interview but I think he'll end up missing the HP. Think about it, if the bike's cant weigh under 220lbs and canards 450 is about 221lbs (thats the rumor) and he has 100cc's more than the 350 and the two bikes weigh about the same. The extra HP would make the difference.
lol, You actually think there is a 450 out there that weighs 221 lbs?? Think again!
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dunn2500 1/13/2011 3:12pm
1/13/2011 3:12pm
Rudeboy119 wrote:
has anyone ever found out why KTM is taking a 100 cc disadvantage? Its not like they were made to my an AMA rule or anything
tormentography wrote:
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster. The...
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster.

The thing with Short is that he'd have the same results on a 450 just cause the field is so deep.
bingo...........ktm is tryin to market the bike so it isnt goin anywhere, ken roczen had faster laptimes than short and he is on a 250f........these people blame the bike with a mediocre rider aboard and wonder why he isnt on the box.....shorty will finish in the same spot regardless of 350/450.......face it he isnt a top 5 rider with everyone on board and its only been one race......anyone can finish 10th and have a bad race........if hp is the issue explain alessi's 3rd place start in the main beating factory 450's?.......................if RV,RD,JS jumped on one and couldnt crack the top 5 then tou would have an arguement.....dont expect too much out of short and alessi
rgmx-49
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rgmx-49 1/13/2011 3:18pm
1/13/2011 3:18pm
short should do fine on the bike he just needs to get used to it a little bit more. I mean the field is stacked Windham who won a couple races last year got 6th and grant who won Anaheim in 09 got 9th.
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rgmx-49 1/13/2011 3:21pm
1/13/2011 3:21pm
Rudeboy119 wrote:
has anyone ever found out why KTM is taking a 100 cc disadvantage? Its not like they were made to my an AMA rule or anything
tormentography wrote:
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster. The...
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster.

The thing with Short is that he'd have the same results on a 450 just cause the field is so deep.
dunn2500 wrote:
bingo...........ktm is tryin to market the bike so it isnt goin anywhere, ken roczen had faster laptimes than short and he is on a 250f........these people...
bingo...........ktm is tryin to market the bike so it isnt goin anywhere, ken roczen had faster laptimes than short and he is on a 250f........these people blame the bike with a mediocre rider aboard and wonder why he isnt on the box.....shorty will finish in the same spot regardless of 350/450.......face it he isnt a top 5 rider with everyone on board and its only been one race......anyone can finish 10th and have a bad race........if hp is the issue explain alessi's 3rd place start in the main beating factory 450's?.......................if RV,RD,JS jumped on one and couldnt crack the top 5 then tou would have an arguement.....dont expect too much out of short and alessi
x2, but still think short can do a bit better than 10th.
eb313
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eb313 1/13/2011 3:43pm
1/13/2011 3:43pm
This sounds like the first few times the YZ400f was raced.

It is a new bike and needs to be refined, not saying it will set the MX/SX world on fire or replace the 450 but some of you are basing your oppinion on one race. Again, using this logic we can assume that Stewart has no shot at the title.
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`ol Ger 1/13/2011 3:51pm
1/13/2011 3:51pm

pulling for Short...
jamma10
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jamma10 1/13/2011 3:52pm
1/13/2011 3:52pm
tormentography wrote:
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster. The...
Many people believe the 450 is over-powered... so the logic is to scrape off a little power and get a lighter bike and be faster.

The thing with Short is that he'd have the same results on a 450 just cause the field is so deep.
dunn2500 wrote:
bingo...........ktm is tryin to market the bike so it isnt goin anywhere, ken roczen had faster laptimes than short and he is on a 250f........these people...
bingo...........ktm is tryin to market the bike so it isnt goin anywhere, ken roczen had faster laptimes than short and he is on a 250f........these people blame the bike with a mediocre rider aboard and wonder why he isnt on the box.....shorty will finish in the same spot regardless of 350/450.......face it he isnt a top 5 rider with everyone on board and its only been one race......anyone can finish 10th and have a bad race........if hp is the issue explain alessi's 3rd place start in the main beating factory 450's?.......................if RV,RD,JS jumped on one and couldnt crack the top 5 then tou would have an arguement.....dont expect too much out of short and alessi
rgmx-49 wrote:
x2, but still think short can do a bit better than 10th.
And he will... which is why the whole mindset of the anti KTM brigade is so utterly ridiculous.
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zippy895 1/13/2011 4:02pm
1/13/2011 4:02pm
jamma10 wrote:
some of you people are nuts I swear.
lol.what gave it away.

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