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It's also part of race craft.
It's unfortunately, but necessary.
However some riders can be asholes.
I don’t think it is a 107 problem/solution. It is an individual rider problem. The stupid points thing is not working. Fines are tough due to massive differences in pay. How about a one race suspension for the first infraction, 2 races for the second infraction, and 5 for the third. That proportionally hits the wallet of riders if they are not paid for that/those race/s. After that make it a Season suspension to include the number in to the next season. Do this and riders will take it very serious and gtfootw. You see…with the 107 rule then some repeat offenders, like Friese, will still make it. In fact…faster lappers are the hardest to pass…and if they don’t get out of the way it really screws some riders disproportionately. There are riders that wouldn’t make the 107 that are very respectful of the blue flag. This keeps the gate full and opens opportunities to riders that ride right. All of this would depend on the AMA enforcing it so at this point….nothing will make sense….just like the AMA.
btw….every one of the “problem” riders, 4 that were named, would have made the main this week under a 107 rule….food for thought.
Thanks for this.
I've always wondered how many times a qualifying position gets lapped. Seems the riders qualifying at the back tend to get lapped 3 times.
IMO that would be a better case for changing qualifying or number of riders in the main - in other words, at what % do qualified riders get lapped 3 times? 2 times?
The thing is once they get lapped they start spending half or more rolling around staying out of the way so it goes from bad to worse quickly.
That’s why the percent rule ensures they’re atleast in the same stratosphere reduces that whole mess a lot.
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A qualifying percentage rule is the main catalyst for myself (and others) not racing the Thailand championship this year.
At the first round, a German rider (rode ISRL) making his debut did not make the cut and didn’t race. He did not show for round 2. Lap times were 65 seconds and led by former Australian champ Kirk Gibbs.
They built a 55 second turd of a track for the second race (so bad FIM Asia got involved). They did not hold qualifying because they were busy fixing the track. Based on practice times, 7 riders would have been within 110% of Gibbs.
This type of rule is silly for motocross. What does 1 lap sprint speed have to do with how fast you are going late in a race on a beat up track?
Extremely silly for Thai motocross lol combine with FIM age out rule, how many 24 year old Thai kids will be hanging with an Aussie champ as soon as they jump on a 450? How will they ever get better if they aren’t racing the best around?
Less bureaucratic bullshit, more run what you brung.
Food for thought…
How many journeyman guys have a job/company now based on the brand and name they built for themselves while racing? JT wouldn’t be where he is.
Finding a way to race for a living builds character and sharpens minds in ways no school could ever do.
The world needs more privateers, not less.
Every year lappers are a problem and every year we get a sleuth of “rule change” threads when it happens.
The racing is fine. The rules are fine. All that needs to happen is for the offenders to get black flagged. No need to overcomplicate things.
Ricky will see your 107 and raise it to “120%”
That’s easy to accommodate - top ten riders in points get automatic entry to the main. Or some variation on that idea.
The intent with this whole issue is not to exclude fast guys.
Amazing lol
The problem with doing a percentage rule is a lot of those guys can throw down a heater lap in qualifying, but can't keep that pace for the whole race and still become road blocks.
It certainly weeds the one out that can’t even throw down one though. And isn’t it closer to a solution than not having it?
this also partly rests on Dirt Wurx to not build amateur supercross tracks that have 37 second lap times. Amazing how they just continue to get to build for Feld year after year despite poor performance
Agreed. I think a lot of this is on their insistence on making new designs. Just use the 20 best designs from years past and alternate through them. Use the designs that led to the best racing, good lap times, no massive pile ups etc.
Mx tracks are 99% unchanged year over year and sx throws away last years designs and reinvents for the sake of reinventing.
I agree with you completely 45 second lap times are a joke, especially on a rutted track.
F1 has something similar. 3 drivers would not have made the opening round last weekend, including Max Verstappen who crashed in Q1, but they show practice lap times or plead their case on race finishes, and they can race.
This would work if the AMA had balls. Yes…I like Yogi and Jbone….but the past 3 weeks shows their weakness. We have seen Friese get in the face of AMA officials ….and riders have not “fixed” the problem themselves. There are ways to handle this, including black flags, but no one has had the balls to do it it…except Peick in one race. If you black flag after an incident then the damage is done. There still needs to be a penalty to fix future bad behavior.
Here's a look at how many riders get lapped between 2-4 times in a main event in the 450 class this season
Some racing series have "Minimum Speed Rule" where if you are not going the minimum speed set by race control, you are excluded from continuing the race. (This is used primarily after repairs are made to a car).
Now moto couldn't really do "Minimum Speed", but could do "Minimum Lap Time" during the races. That would give them a way to eliminate the rolling chicanes
All of this, and 107 rule, does not really fix the problem. Why? All 4 specifically named offenders this last weekend, that riders and fans are pissed at, would still have made the main. You have to penalize bad riding…and not points that end up not doing anything. Make an impression that has some pain and maybe riders will change behavior.
Pit Row
No they wouldn’t have, 107 is the number for f1…105 is the number used by motogp…supercross lap times are shorter than both and the number can be adjusted to suit. So take the spirit of the rule and make the number suit supercross needs, 104 or 105 is probably the number needed for supercross.
Does that make sense now? And with that number in mind those riders would not have made the show…
Uh…yes they would have…under the 107% rule. The title of the thread, and most of the discussion , was the 107 rule. Yea…if you lower it then they would not….lol. It always made sense mathematically. Lower it enough and 3 guys will make it….
btw…. The praised 107 rule for F1 is pretty much irrelevant. The last time F1 excluded a driver from a race under this rule was 2012.
So what’s your point? The rule won’t work? Bad idea? Because the number that works for f1 won’t work for us, and for some reason we wouldn’t be able to change it if we did decide to use a rule like this?
My point is there are riders that honor the blue flag that I want in the race. A 107, or 105, or 106.352 rule could have large and unpredictable implications on numbers at the gate. We have had races with a blazing hot lap and then separation is too much. There have been bad offenders that are fast. Friese is often going to make it and still ride like an ass hat. The way to fix it is Friese, Moranz, and Harrison (and maybe 1 more) should be suspended from the next race. Real pain to the the rider and the team. I bet probably 2 of those riders will do better next time. Have real consequences for poor riding and riders will clean it up.
Pretty easy fix here…when you get lapped you get to finish the lap you are on, and then your race is done. This has been an issue for years. Put it to rest.
No, you time them during the race.
If they aren't on a predetermined pace (or a percentage of the leaders pace), they're gone.
So if a top rider is taken out or crashes on an early lap and does not meet that predetermined lap time…..gone? Other motor sports use practice/qualifying. I see this being too complicated for the AMA. They literally have trouble turning a light on and off.
The series I'm talking about gives you 3 laps to get back up to speed.
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