Triumph TF450 transmission updates.

My thoughts also float a bit around the quickshifter, not saying its the issue here because this definitely seems much more like a mechanical gremlin. I know quickshifters can cause false neutrals, especially if you're not purposeful with your shifting. The issue is 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th which is where the quickshifter is operating. Coming from the road racing world my race bike had a quick shifter and if I wasn't fully and purposefully engaging the lever and shifting or if I was attempting to just clutchless upshift at the same time out of sheer habit. It sometimes wouldn't shift at all and would bounce back upwards into my foot sense I used GP shift, and I had a false neutral or two which is pretty scary coming off a straightway.

Quick Shifters also like to operate under load, and aren't the biggest fan of doing it at lower RPMs.

I can respect them for calling it out but I was also pretty disappointed they didn’t say much about the rest of the bike or how it would compare to the rest if the transmission issues were sorted. 

If they are dead set on placing it last that’s fine. But there are a lot of people that would like to hear how it stacks against the rest in terms of chassis/suspension and engine feel.

It’s one of the lightest bikes in the class and one of the most powerful. But it’s the worst bike because they had a few false neutrals that accounted for less than 1% of there time on the bike. GTFO. How did it ride the other 99% of your time on the bike?

Aren’t most of the magazines owned by Hi Torque anyways? Why would only one of them call it out but the others don’t when they have the same parent company?

If the bike is trash, fine, but tell me why other than three minutes out of 10 hours.

The general consensus about both the 250 and 450 is that they are well liked by their owners. Something’s may need to be sorted, but once sorted they really enjoy them. Great example by the gentleman above who said he bought it for the chassis.

It's a confidence issue. If I spent over 10g and could potentially hurt myself....

Yeah, valid point. Still rate it last but say where it would rank if the transmission was fine.

Nothing wrong with that question at all! Now, happens to the re-sale value of these bikes?

The 26' suposedly has all the upgrades BUT why is it that MXAs 26 shoot out says the TF450 still has what sounds to me like  the same shifting issues that the 25' does ?

Im concerned that  while there have been some parts "upgrades" , it looks like quality control issues continue

This doesnt give me me much confidence that this is being taken seriously AND I hesitate to simply buy new parts , I suspect I may not get anything better than whats already in there

so far I see no obvious "design issues" with this bike. Only quality controll issues at mfg/ assembly.

I speak as a design engineer with decades of experience. It looks like a good design simply hampered by some bad parts 

I would caution people to not sell their triumph too soon. 

MXA is on record praising the Triumph TF both the 250 and 450. This all befor the latest 450 shootout

However that was preliminary reports AND even then there were veiled tones of caution in their voice. My thought when I first heard these reports was " they are cautiously  concealing something". Not that they were up to no good, simply that early on  they had some reasons to think there might be some trouble but havent tested long enough yet to say for sure.

Then when they finally did an extensive test ( the latest shootout) it was all clear and they reported the issue with confidence.

I see that as the only ones telling the truth 

That said They love the bike as do many of us and I bet it will lead or be at top if Triumph makes good on their issues.

. I Personally have tested the 25 YZF, CRF, SXF, TF 450s . The Triumph is without question the bike with the most potential. Great chassis (not just assembly line frendly tubes slapped together) , great brakes ( you really dont know how much better Brembo modulation is untill ya jump off a jap bike back onto the triumph,  great suspenders ( valved for novices but its all there for a fast guy to revalve), The rest is fixable like the weak bottom end ( most will be satisfied with simply adding a 50-51 tooth rear, fast guys may need a pipe and ignition?) On many bikes adding teeth doesnt work all that well but for some reason it works well on this bike, it has "legs" , .... It turns but is reasonably stable, it feels light because it is light, not because it has a twitch geometry that "feels light in motion". etc etc ....

If they simply take care of some QA this bike will move up the line considerably and if they stiffen it up a bit and remamp for some low to mid I predict it will win

As long as it's not popping out of gear under load or between shifts the problems should be fixable. It just sucks that the cases need to be split on a new bike and Triumph really doesn't have an answer yet.

This does not seem to be a QA problem. It seems to be a design issue within the transmission. Faulty design (tolerances?) causing intermittent problems. 

And it seems to be multiple problems. Clutch engagement point on new bikes being all the way to the bars, false neutral, clutches going out prematurely. Clutches slipping after a few hours. This on 2026. 2025 we shouldn't even talk about.

I doubt someone is using wrong torque at the assembly line, or to little or much Loctite.

MXA has really jumped up a couple notches in my book after mentioning this in their 2026 450 shootout. They were calling the F outta Kawasaki for a bunch of reliability issues too lol. I would love a reliability shootout, as a common man myself. 

I can't wait to buy a new Triumph MX bike in the future, once the wrinkles (big and small) get ironed out. 

I dissagree. The transmission is a basic design similar to all of them. Its not a new design concept with teething pains

Ive been through most of this bike now and the "design" looks fine and there are bikes that do not have the issues

Based On waht I found and what I see I say there are simply parts that are not being QCed or simply out of spec prts being installed

The clutch issues on the 250 may be design issues but looking at the failures its more likley cheap materils simply coming apart. Shouldnt be happening but its basic desin looks fine, the material is cheeze

The 450 clutch had a very light spring and it slipped. Easy fix

Step up Triumph. Make good on the transmissions and all should be fine

Not to beat a dead horse, because again the trans issue is definitely a problem. But I specifically remember stating that I’m fairly confident I knew what dealer sold the bike that OP was referencing and that I have no doubts that they were dropping the ball and not Triumph on the warranty claim. I was searching around for a local shop to me and came across the same post but with a recent update from the bike owner. I hate to say I predicted the exact dealer and situation, but it’s exactly who and what I expected.

Man that’s terrible, I hope the word gets out about these guys. How do businesses in this day and age feel like they can pull stuff like this and not have the word get out?

I almost bought my TF250-X from them until they screwed me around with delivery date and I bought a bike from another dealer for $1500 less that was in stock. I’m actually glad that they did that because I found a small dealership that is absolutely phenomenal to work with.

These guys are owned by a large ownership group that mostly does Harley including at this location, which obviously is most of their business. KTM is the locations main off-road draw so I’m sure the Triumph off-road portion is the unloved step-child that they don’t really want to deal with anymore hassle than they have to.

Just make sure if you’re the one selling your old Triumph to little Johnny moving up to a 250F or John “never had a dirtbike before” Doe, that you inform them of the transmission issues so you don’t ruin someone’s first dirtbike experience.

Trans issues are on the 450. 250s have sporadic clutch issues that have had 2 recalls and are solved with aftermarket clutches, in which I have a Hinson on my bike (though I never had any clutch issues myself).

The 250s have notchy and hard shifting as well. This is well documented.

I am presently diving into the engine on my TF 450 RC in an attempt to find a fix for the shifting issues. If I find a cure I will report it here. I expect this will take a few weeks. In the mean time here is what I have found in the motor so far at approx 15 hrs of light use, oil changed every 4 hrs, note the leaking valve seals and the missing vent port O ring. My bike was smokey at start up from new. Some tryed to tell me its just condensation clearing BUT compared to my other 4 bikes it looked quite different. Heres likley why ha. Again as previously reported these findings are indicative of carless assembly and or possibly some sub par parts?? . If ya have one of these bikes I recomend you inspect. 

see piks

Ha is anyone gona do that?

my plan is to go through the entire bike starting with transmission. Hope to find a fix. Dont plan to sell bike yet BUT if I do I may be the only one who can say mine is fixed and good to go

They already got one thing wrong, at least, with the design. Cooling wasn't sufficient. So I'm not prepared to rule out it needs to be redesigned in several places.

If it was poor QA/QC, parts would also break more and it would be binary outcomes, or wear more but when replaced it would all be good. Here, things just doesn't seem to be working together. Clutch engagement and false neutral isn't QA/QC, its poor design including specification/tolerances it seems.

No matter what, I agree they just need to step up and fix it. Can't understand why they don't talk more about how they are addressing it because I know plenty of people staying away from the bike until they acknowledge and fix the apparent problems.

Agree

I see QC issues all over my motor

An oil pump rotor that was cast poorly. So out of spec it was stuck in its bore and started eating the drive gears. YET some are OK. How did it get in tere like that? It was obvious to the naked eye

Missing O ring in the heads breather vent

wads of scotch bright pad material all over inside my motor. Im at 15 hrs and I finally got the last of that

Pulled the valves today because they ALL have leaking valve seals. One of the the exhaust valves has a grinder mark on the stem!! WTH is they any QC? It looks like they polished the area on the stem where the grind mark is and installed it. check out the pic

Thats said The transmission issue just may be a design problem. 

I hope not. Im going to investigate. If it is we all bought 11000$ a boat anchor. I wonder if a KTM transmission would fit as the center cases seem to be a copy

Im ok with some first year issues and expected it, BUT a transmission that finds nutral just in front of a jump face is another matter and so far Triumph seems to be taking the position that it is waht it is.  Its a transmission. Whos gona make parts for that if Triumph isnt going to properly update it? Hell at this point I would be more than willing to dump a grand for parts that work but where are ya going to get them?

The shift star "update" is pathetic. I tested it all day today and it works the same as the old one. Looked closley at it and its the same profile as the old, just polished up. The issue is internal. If its just shift forks a bit out I may find a fix BUT if its an overall design issue then what?

wait they left an ACTUAL scotchbrite pad in the motor from the factory?

You can spend way less than that to hurt yourself on a dirt bike 🤣

YES

I have 5 oil changes before I finally split the cases. I was still finding wads of the redish brown scotch bright pad material on the oil screens when I split things apart. AND dont think it was an isolated case. I have seen 2 other videos showing someone draining oil and showing the screens. I see the exct same wads on their screene as well. In one vid they mention it BUT they thought it was just a gob of sealant. The wads of scotch bright pad do look like sealant when its saturated with oil. BUT once ya squeeze the oil out and place the material under a scope its obvious what it is. I went and bought some scotch bright from the store and placed it under the scope with what I removed from my motor. Its a perfect match. My concern was a clogged oil jet OR damage in the oil pump rotor areas. The rest of the motor wold likley just eat it without issue? Anyway I definatly see where the scotch bright material went through both  oil pump rotor bores. BUT it does seem to be minimal damage. Just some swipe marks on the aluminum bore that are not deep so I think the cases are OK. Good thing as your looking at a a significant replacment cost for cases. Waayyy more than a jap bike

Its just another example of carless assembly I have found AND possibly a lack of any meaningful QC.

 Its a great bike with serious potential (  best chassis/ suspension/ brakes) BUT they threw a bad heart in it. I plan to hopfully find a remidy for the shiftingand other  issues and at the end of all this make a list of ALL it all and the fix so people interested can have a plan of attack to recover from this. If it wasnt for the great chassis I would have just kicked her to the curb and moved on. 

I hope as these reports keep comming that Triumph makes good on a trany fix but my dealings with corprate so far dont give much hope. Were gona have to find the cure ourselfs on this and there is no way Im giving my bike to a dealer to wrangle a problem Triumph corprate isnt supplying proper parts for. 

Absolutly NO OFFENSE meant to any dealer at all here. Mine has been great so far. BUT few if any dealer can deal with transmission issues that the Manufacture isnt addressing in meaningful ways. The shift star "upgrade" appears to be smoke and mirrors. Its basically the same part as the old one just polished. There is no significant reason to polish a shift star as its detent is a roller. Rollers dont need a polished surface to move well. 

Investigation of the transmission design starts soon. I will report as soon as I can. likley in a couple weeks

aees....

The part on getting "the cooling wrong",  can you tell more on this please...

I havent seen a problem here yet BUT admitedly I am a  mid range rpm guy AND on top of that Ive been on the easy side with the bike so far as Im recovering from injury.

MY biggest concern here is actually the valve seals. Triumph speced low budget leaker seals. I wonder, did they do that on purpose to avoid problems with the head running hot? just a thought....

My plan is to use some higher quality seals from a KTM ( if they fit ha) BUT that means there will be less oil getting into the valves guides so you see where im going here with concern over heat...

btw heres an interesting one, the Triumph valve seal is around 17$ each, KTM valve seals are aroud 6$ each. Go figure

They drilled the clutch hub to allow further cooling. One of the early theories that it was the mother to all issues, which it wasn't.

Compare a Triumph clutch to KTM and you can see there is huge difference in possibility for oil to flow. I understood this was part of one of the recalls.

OK so you were talking about clutch cooling, not engine cooling?

I did visual compare of KTM and TRIUMPH clutch early on. They are similar designs BUT it was easy to see that the KTM was a higher quality unit. an I see some wear on the Triumph components at 10 hrs that is more than I see on the KTM unit at 100 hrs. I am light on clutches btw. I dont use it for thrust, only as a handling tool. Im often more concerned about clutch Dis enguagment than anything else. I want it to actually disenguage at turn entrance with ability to modulate. As for thrust I dont slip and rev/dump ever. HOWEVER on the stock Triumph disk spring I did notice slippage on acceleration a couple times. As said I think for most the stiffer disk spring update will be enough

Thats all on the 450 btw. The 250 clutch is very different and as I hear its a hot mess. 

And yes the KTM inner hub has a bunch of holes to allow oil passage and the original Triumph inner hub had none. I have the "updated "Triumph clutch wich does now have holes for oil flow BUT as you say I doubt it was the root of the  issues. The new clutch is basically the old clutch with an inner hub with holes AND a stiffer disk spring. I suspect the stiifer spring is all that was needed for most riders. Heavy clutch users may need a full Hinson or some other ?

Hold onto your hat this will be a bit long winded...

Wasn’t expecting to get to this for at least a week or so but had time today and went for it. 

 I found 2 obvious problems and some other lesser but likely useful stuff. FORTUNATLY ALL ARE FIXABLE! It does not look like we have a design problem here, just some bad parts. This has been a consistent theme with these bikes. 

Anyway, armed with the following info I have confidence based on past experience that anyone good with their hands can make their Triumph shift well, avoid the death sentence of false neutrals, and maybe even overcome a good portion of the notchy stiffness many are experiencing. Will have to wait till spring to test it all but based on what I see I believe this mess is salvageable. Yes Mr. Fakebook worrior, I admit what I found here is nothing new so no need to chime in with all the negative comments 😉. 

I can see now why Some people are reporting their bikes are working OK while others are reporting serious issues. Most of what I found were simply subpar finishes on surfaces critical to shifting in ALL similar designs. Those who have bikes that are working ok likely just got lucky with some parts that didn’t have serious flaws. BUT imo even those bikes would likely benefit from this info as they too likely have at least some of the flaws. 

 So lets see if I can put this into words with some pics and make sense of it all…..

FALSE NEUTRALS- First off understand this, ALL constant mesh transmissions (most motorcycles) have a “neutral” between each gear. As you shift your sliding a gear out of engagement with the gear on its left, and into engagement with the gear on its right. Mid way through this move there is no engagement and everything free wheels as if you’re in neutral. This is necessary in all constant mesh designs and not specific to Triumph.  If all is well everything moves right past this mid position and completes the gear change. However, if it hangs up mid-way, you get a false neutral.  In truth ALL constant mesh transmission hang up mid-way through a gear change for a split second. How? When a gear is moved out of the gear on its left into the gear on its right, they usually contact first at the “end faces” of the “dogs”. When the surfaces of those end faces are smooth and well finished, the dogs just slide over top of each other until they fall into place and lock in. When those surfaces are rough enough it won’t slide and the gear hangs up mid-way. 

Take a look at pic# 1. The arrow points to the “end face” of a dog. If that surface is not smooth it can grip the surface of the gear it lands on (see pic #2).  If these surfaces are not smooth and flat they will grip each other and the dog will not fall down into its pocket completing the shift move (see pic #3). This holds the gear in a “mid position false neutral”. You feel this at the lever as a jam mid-way through the stroke. Normally these surfaces slide right past each other and the dogs can fall into place locking the gears together in a completed shift but when these surfaces are rough enough they can hold position and foul the shift.

What I found on MY TF450-RCheezburger addition  was very rough surfaces on these faces. And making it even worse (the pics don’t show this well) the edges of the pockets the dogs need to fall into ( see pic # 3) had large machining Burrs that literally stopped the dog from sliding into its pocket even with excessive force!! 

On the track my bikes 1st to 2nd shifts were so so, notchy and stiff but no false neutrals. 2-3 was a bit stiffer and notchy and would occasionally give a false neutral, 3-4 and 4-5 were even worse. BTW I don’t power shift. I’m easy on bikes yet this condition had me on egg shells at jump faces. Anyway, sure enough, bench tests show similar performance AND close inspection revealed that the surfaces involved in 1st to 2nd shifts were not great but they were the smoothest of them all, 2-3 were rough and felt gritty spinning gears by hand, and the surfaces on 3-4, 4-5 shifts were really ugly gritty feel and even a Galling like feel at times. This is very hard metal so generally Galling is out BUT in this case the large Burrs left over from machining the pockets were causing a galling like feel.

 This find is consistent with the performance on track and consistent with other reports in the field giving some confidence that this is likely the cause of the false neutrals. It’s an easy fix with some emery cloth on a flat stone if your good at that kind thing. I suppose you could even polish from there. 

STIFF NOTCHY SHIFTING- After visual inspection of all transmission parts and direct compare and feel too newer KTM transmissions I believe the cause of the notchy stiffness in the Triumph is related to a combination of a few things all adding up. 

       1, Unpolished dogs (not the faces but the sides) see pic # 4. These surfaces have to slide apart at beginning of a shift so smooth here helps. The Triumph dogs look like hammered dog meat. A completely unfinished surface Ug. The KTM dogs look like jewelry. Highly polish smooth perfection. I suppose a vibratory polish may help here BUT won’t be same as the KTM dogs that are machined and polished. A machine shop could grind smooth but it would be expensive AND such a mod here would likely only be a big deal to racers who are shifting under full load.

 2, the pins in the shift forks that ride in the shift drum grooves do not spin under load. They are designed to spin BUT when there is a load on them, they don’t. It’s a similar design on the KTM but for some reason theirs do spin under load. Not sure why this is and likely nothing we can do about it. The Triumph pins are nicely polished but this is a high friction area and there would likely be a noticeable difference in shift force if they spun properly. Oh well I wonder if the KTM forks fit ha.

3, The finish on the shift fork shafts are a bit rough and even a little force on the shift fork that’s not perfectly square to the shafts axis results in a noticeable drag and even a stiction action. Possibly a finer finish on these shafts with some 2000 grit or maybe a polish would overcome that? I will play with that eventually and report what I find. That said if ya do the mod in #4 this problem may go away because its unlevel fork fingers that would put a strange force on this part. If everything else is good this may not be a problem but I would try a polish anyway.

4, I found the shift forks are far from perfect as far as how the fingers push the gears. The fork fingers are not putting an even and square to shaft force on the gears as they are moved( See Pic #5). You can see wear in one small spot on only one finger, AND, easy to miss, look at the shinny wear on the top of the “A3” mark molded into fork. Hard to see in pic but that molded in marking is raised and it was pushing on the gear. If ya look closely, you can see it’s a bit shiny at the tops of the letters. It was dug in quite a bit by the gear groove! The problem is, when you push on splined gears that ride on a splined shaft you have to push the gear evenly with both fork  fingers OR the gear will be tilted slightly on its shaft. A splined shaft with a splined hub is a perfect engine for a stiction if ya tilt the gear even a little bit. I found this same issue on two KTMs in the past that had stiff shifting feel. They have a similar fork design where the fingers are not machined, just a coating over the rough forging and if the forks weren’t level finger to finger it would cause hard shifting feel due to the gear being tilted slightly on its splined shaft.. This too is fixable. Just grind those molded in letters off, and with a granite stone, some V blocks, and some emery cloth, you can level the surfaces of the fingers so they push evenly on the gears.  Of course, any machine shop can do it for ya too. 

So That’s it. I know it was long BUT the devil is in the details and wording things to make sense is difficult. In the next week or so (If my equipment shows up ha), I will post pics of how to sand this stuff down. It’s not that hard to do but of course a lot of work to get at everything. Hope this helps.