Vital
Im torn between these 2 bikes. I already studied the positives and negatives of each bike, as well watch all the reviews. Already factoring in a revalve as im 6-1" 280lb. Im a vet a/b rider. Im in the northeast where we have a mixture of soft and hard dirt, so i had what the cali testers say, with a grain of salt when they complain about bikes. Seems the only negative of the handa is the chassis if your out west. Kawi is down on power, needs a bunch of love to make it strong and needs to probably be ridden more aggressively since the lack of power. Im not looking to dump a ton of money into a 450 like keefer has with the kx450.
I had the last gen kawi and didnt care for it as much as i hoped I would.I loved my 13 kawi and rode it for 6 years. Sold my 19kx and moved on to a 21 yz450. The yz was good, but didnt care for the bulkiness or my boots getting stuck under the sub frame/plastics. Just looking for something thats more nimble and playful than my yz. Not doing another austrian bike as i already own a 350.
Anybody out there had the current generation of either bike and sold it to go to the other bike?
I am 6 ft, 240lbs and 67years old. Everything happens quickly on the Honda. is the best way I can put it. It handles quick, is reactive and responsive. Front wheel feels closer to you. The KX fits bigger guys well, turns good and is stable. Knocking the screens out of the muffler helps power. Twin Air power flow or the Tusk quick draw filter system are much better than the stock setup in regards to sealing and cleaning. I have almost 40hrs on a 25 KX 450 that I bought this past October and have had no issues but it's not a Honda in build quality. Sounds like you keep your bike for a while so Honda would probably be better in that regard as well. Like all the reviews say the KX is "easy" to ride. The Honda is a sharper knife.
Love the 21+ Honda platform, but the modern YZ is also nimble and playful.
Over my 25 years of riding ive never owned a Honda, so its like an itch im looking to scratch lolol. Im 40 and I dont ride at the same intensity I use to 10 years ago, but still also ride 2-3 times a week. I was a long time 450 rider, but over the past few years ive had a 250 smoker, 250f and now 350 as a second bike, just to have a little variety. The 350 tires me out just the same as the 450, granted i can hold on to the 350 easier since it does have the extra grunt.
With the honda, I just question how bad could it really be? In regards to the front wheel feeling closer on the honda, i actually felt my 19kx was very long in a sense and ive heard some say that about the current gen kawi. My 13 kx had 130 problem free hours on it and I had it dialed in with between triple clamps, lowering link and a enzo revalve. Never had the need for more power and the bike was good. The kawi quality doesnt scare me as and i also take my bikes down to the frame and reassemble when new. Then keep an eye on fasteners.
I know some call the current kx450 the jap 350 and that deters me a little bit mainly because I know how I have to ride my 350. The 350 does its best work in the higher rpms, but this also means riding very aggressive, bound up suspension and high rpm vibrations that can be felt through the hands. Even with the kawi being mellow, i can see why some complain about how the bike vibrates as you need to ride higher in the rpms.
I’ve been on KTMs for 21 years, 2 and 4 stroke, many new ones, some with MXTech Suspension, and currently a 300 with Ohlins. Rode a friends 26 Honda 450 end of last season and decided it was time for a change. New Honda was delivered last night and looking forward to a new feel.
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I don't feel the KX is like a 350 at all. If you look at the dyno #s it puts out it's peak torque at a lower RPM vs the other 450's. I used a flexible wood bit that is used to install cable to take the screen out of the muffler on the engine side and a normal wood bit to pull the one near the end cap and installed a map. It's not the fastest by any means but if you want more there's plenty info out there. Will say it feels a little heavier when leaning in but it follows the front wheel well. Your still a young guy at 40 so you may like the Honda? The new KX turns much better than the 13 but the 13 had more motor. I had that bike as well. The air fork on that bike was great!
For tall guys, it really is hard to beat the cockpit of the Kawasaki. 6’3” here, and the last bike I owned that wasn’t green was a CRF450 and I was never able to get as comfortable on it.
Due to my weight here's a few times where I want more than what the 350 offer's... trying to clear small gaps that have little run up or rough run up that loose's your momentum. I also notice it later in the day when you get acceleration chop leading up to bigger jumps where your driving hard out of a corner and you can feel the lose of momentum. When I would switch to my 450, those problems went away. The suspension on my 350 is revalved from REP w/6500's and it feels great, so I cant say its suspension related as my 450 just had springs for my weight.
Yea that 13 kx was great when setup. The engine was near perfect for me and is what I missed the most when I moved to the 19kx... everything else was an upgrade from the 13 except the engine. As I get older, im no longer looking for a fire breathing 450 lol. I had a vortex from xpr on my 21 yz that had some keefer map and they made the power very useable without ripping your arms off. Im only getting older and I want to try other bikes, so between that and few things I didnt like about the yamaha, are the reasons I want to try something else.
I hear ya. Everyone claims the Honda is so comfy with the ergo's but that is very rider dependent. When you start adding a taller seat and lowering pegs, it gives the bike a different feel. Thats what I did with my yz450 and it made it a little better, but not great. With the lowered pegs, my boots would always get stuck under the number plate plastics under the sub frame. It was probably a combination of the pegs and my taller size 14 boots. Its very scary when you hit a jump and the top of ur boot us stuck under the number plate until you land🤦🏻♂️. I made a mod for the left side to make the problem stop and I used the cycra number plate on the ride side. I just cant believe more people didnt have that problem. I know the new yz's are much better in the ergo department, but I just want to try something different.
Just looking at the honda seat, i know I would switch to a bigger guts seat. I like the looks of the kawi seat though. The adjustability on the kawi is nice.
Whichever one has a great price and good dealer support. Honestly, I’d plug that in to almost ANY modern 450 MXer.
Locally there are a few leftovers for a good price that are within a few hours from me, so it makes the decision a little harder lol. Dealer support isnt great around me unless you go Austrian.
The next thing I was looking at is which bike needs the least amount of love. I dumped a decent amount of money into my 350 and im not looking to do that again if I dont have to with my next purchase.
Honestly, your 350 seems to have left a bad taste for you…when…the truth is…
You’re a big dude &… it’s a 350. It doesn’t really have much to do with our 450 conversation. I know, I know…it is kinda frustrating when you invest time and money in a project and it doesn’t turn out the way you’d hoped. C’est l’vie! 😎
As for Austrian 450s…The FE/RE 450s sure seem like a lot of bike for the money: the suspension seems like a Mega Bonus and a guy like you could start out a spring swap and likely be in a really good place. Note: on a std Austrian 450 you get an even cheaper starting point with just -1- spring needed. 🤣 I’m hearing about people getting ‘25 Huskies for great deals…?
On the other-hand, the prices people are reporting on new KXs sound like they’re THOUSANDS cheaper…but, as you’ve already commented…they’re reportedly light on power…all the while, that seems to fly in the face of what I see at the races 🤔
I rode my KX and the new gen KTM back to back and while I do have the KX pegs in the lower position the seat to peg was much better on the KX. My right knee isn't to good and that helps a bunch.
If you ride in sand or heavy conditions, the KX will be a dog at 280 and need a lot of work. I’ve been on KX450s since ‘13 and I think my ‘21 is probably the best bike I’ve ever had. Haven’t ridden the Honda. I’m 200lbs 40yo A rider.
I appreciate the feedback!!!
I do like the 350 a lot, but its not the only bike to have for someone like me. Back when I got it, I wanted to see what all the hype was about. Over the last 3 years, I put more time on my 350 than my 450. Between the TD ecu, exhaust, intake and gearing change, she rips and it feels like im on a 125 due to how nimble and playful it is. There's just some times that I want a little more down low and not having to ring its neck in the upper rpm's. Again, I have to ride it differently than lighter riders. This bike is great to stud up in the winter and hit the trails.
I did think about the ktm 450 route, but the air fork turns me away. Even if I swapped the forks from the 350 to 450, I dont have any plans of getting rid of the 350, so id still want spring forks for both bikes. The 2026 factory editions did peak my interest with the conevalves, but the price tag is way over budget. I was even looking at some super low hr 22 450sxf's, just to keep the same feel, but they sold quickly.
Around here, there aren't many leftovers unless you go out of state.. There's about $1000 difference between both bikes im interested in.
The kawalski's have plenty of power at the pro level. Us cheap older guys still wanna stick are neck out a little bit and have some fun, without having to do much to the bike🤣🤘🏻.
I was pushing 250 on my kx in east coast conditions and the bike was great.
Drill out the air box cover and air box itself helps gain a ton of roll on.
Also the Yamaha that’s famously “fast” is just geared shorter, so feel free to gear any other bike down by 2-5 teeth… the Yamahas shred off bottom and shred out of turns, and light up through the gear basically because of really short gearing.
I’ve done that plus full exhaust, power flow kit, and more. The bike is definitely lacking bottom. I understand people have a hard time hearing negative opinions about their favorite toy, but I’m being realistic as a Kawasaki fan and someone who’s been riding their 450s for 13 years consecutively. I much preferred the last generation, but opinions will differ.
Not the case lol. I go through bikes year after year could care less about which bike I have, zero loyalty.
I was talking about me?
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After the exhaust, intake and mods were you much happier or do you feel the bike still needs more love? Keefer dropped a hi comp piston in his kx450 along with the vortex, exhaust and intake.... im not looking to get that crazy, not to mention its a dam 450 lolol.
From what i can find with the honda, some put a yosh system to move the power if you dont like the stock feel down low and other than that everyone seems to be happy with the engine. Im sure the same could be achieved with a ecu.... between the ecu and exhaust they cost about the same. Seems like the honda has its power placed in a better range. As far as the chassis goes, some dont mind the stock setup while others go for race cups or triple clamps to calm things down.
I feel it could have used more for my scenario. I’d find myself stabbing the clutch repeatedly out of deep, wet corners and feel it affected my starts also. Lots of sand in my area. A buddy of mine that did some nationals up until a couple years ago got one this summer and said the Vortex made a huge difference, as expected. I wanted to get one before LL last year but never pulled the trigger due to budgetary constraints.
As a bigger guy at 6’1” 200 lbs, I didn’t care for the changes to the chassis over the last generation either. It was a bit nervous feeling. I messed with the forks a lot so the bike would not knife in corners or get upset on decel. A revalve should help. I only changed springs / preload and oil height. Lots of people rave about the handling so maybe it’s just me. It’s a good bike. Just lacks bottom and took a while to get it comfortable for me. Try to ride them both if you have an opportunity.
If you liked your 21 YZ450 but just wanted it less bulky and a little more nimble and playful, you need a 2025 YZ450.. lol Especially since you said you want the bike that needs the least right out of the box. The engine shreds and the mapping app is great.
With your background and stature, I'd go CRF450RWE if that's in the cards. 18mm shock shaft is definitely worth it in your case, and would be the only option that is "more nimble and playful than your yz". At 6' and 185 lb., I LOVE the Kawi's ergos (pegs in lowered position, 15mm taller seat foam), but think you'd be wanting more excitement out of the powerplant. It's not slow, just smooth (especially bottom to mid). If you didn't like the previous generation (2019 - 2023), you probably won't be too stoked on the 24+ either. SR would get you closer to happiness, but they don't seem to hold their value like the RWE's.
In your case, a suspension revalve/re-spring is certainly in the cards on either bike. On the Honda, -5 down and -5 back pegs would be a huge improvement; the shifter is a bit tighter to the front edge of the peg and gets cramped even for my size 10 Gaerne's. Coupled with a taller seat foam and your preferred bars/grips, you'd be set (ergos wise).
One thing to note: On either bike, major revisions may be coming as soon as 2027. If you have to have that "latest and greatest factor", it's something to consider. Honda will likely have to follow Kawasaki and Yamaha in the lowering dB game, which may impact the next generation more than most realize. It will be especially hard-hitting in the 250F ranks, but is noteworthy even on the 450's...
Whichever direction you go, congrats on the new bike and be sure to keep us updated 👍
This is the kind of info you want to hear, instead the usual "yea the're great, go buy one". Thats the details im looking for.
My conditions range from soft to hard pack or soft with a hard base. The tracks get tilled in the morning and remain soft/loose until good lines are worn in or the sun dries everything. Usually the first few session of a open practice are the softest and your covering the clutch a lot. The extra grunt is much appreciated when running up to a jump. These are the times where i have to be over aggressive on the 350.
No matter which bike I go with, the suspension is going for a revalve. I normally just put springs in for my weight and run it for a while, but this time im just going for the revalve right away. The crappy part is not being able to ride moto until april or may when everything thaws and dry's up.
It doesnt seem like there are many people on this forum who have the current honda 450. Ive joined a few fb groups for honda, but its filled with a lot of fanboys who dont speak about any of the bikes flaws. Locally I dont see a lot of honda or kawi. Its mainly yamaha and austrian.
For what it’s worth, I went from a 23 350sxf with vortex, spring forks, clamps, linkage etc (vet mods) to a 25 crf450 with mapped ecu, exhaust, and revalve. The crf engine is damn near perfect imo and the bike is very comfortable and does everything well. I do miss the nimble feel of the 350, but that’s about it
Honestly, all the brands are good. The Honda has done really well in shootouts in the past 2 years (even did well in MXA!).
From experience the Honda is awesome but can be finicky to setup track to track but once you have base settings for each type of track then that's less of an issue.
Unless you’re racing professionally, for the price of a slip-on muffler, any 450 is going to be more than you need. I’m 6’3” and weigh about 220, and I never feel underpowered. I can pull holeshots no problem when I execute the start properly. Don’t get caught up in hop up nonsense. Set your suspension up properly and have a fun race season.
If it really matters to you, here are the dyno chart results from the 2026 Dirt Bike shootout. Both the Honda and the Kawasaki are near the bottom when it comes to peak horsepower, but the Kawasaki actually tops the charts when it comes to low end hp numbers.
https://dirtbikemagazine.com/450-mx-dyno-report/
In my opinion, these two bikes are so close that i would let the price of the bike be the deciding factor. I have a 24 KX450, my kid ride 25 crf250's and in regards to the "build quality" comment up top, our honda 250s have become more worn out looking by 35 hours than my Kawi BY ALOT..... I have 0 complaints with the KX, i am 6 feet 285 pounds and ride south jersey sand 99% of the time. I removed the airbox plug, and installed PC slip on. The bike has more than enough power and is comfortable. I am considering selling mine to go to a 250 for woods racing
Lots of great info everyone is sharing of various experiences. The shootouts/reviews are helpful, but have to be taken with a grain of salt, especially for us who live on the opposite coast with deeper/wetter conditions. I normally watch all the shootout and just make my own opinion. Usually its an easier decision for me, but this one has me torn as both bike have my interest.
Your 100% right and its all about having fun!!! I only do open practices and have raced in almost 10 years, but I still like to twist when i can hang on🤣. Which ever I get, im only gonna do a revalve and just ride it for a bit. Then go from there in terms of what other, if any, mods I will do. My goal is to just get the bike that has the best base for me and go from there.
That dyno chart is kinda old, it’s from 2016..
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