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No worries there. I understand what you're saying. I respectfully disagree in this case. While you are correct in that a conviction does indeed refer to a firmly held belief or opinion, the context of the usage is as important as the words themselves. In the common usage "Donald Trump is a convicted rapist.", most reasonable people would understand that to mean he had been convicted of the crime of rape, based on the usage. Criminal charges were never filed for several reasons...which include that the statute of limitations was long since expired, the complainant could not remember exactly when, exactly where, and she and supposed witnesses who were present could not remember the details. Therefore, the man is not a "convicted rapist" as is commonly used. Whether sexual abuse did in fact occur is another matter entirely, and the jury obviously found her story more believable than his. Criminal matters require proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil suits only require a preponderance of evidence. Vastly different standards for judgement.
You make it seem as though people were pardoned for rape and sexual abuse of minors. Is that what happened?
Luckily no. They were pardoned for their participation in the J6 attack on the Capitol. Some that were in jail, and then released due to the pardon, have since received new convictions such as child sex abuse and battery.
The pardons only pertained to the J6 Attack (not previous convictions). My point being we pardoned domestic terrorists, let them walk, only for them to go and commit such acts
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/nation-world/january-6-capitol-riot-history-florida-man-child-sex-abuse-charge/67-ecc6f558-c601-4890-9cfd-0f5943d07c4b
EDIT-
"Andrew Johnson was arrested again in July 2025 in Hernando County on multiple child sexual abuse charges. A probable cause affidavit accuses Johnson of molesting his girlfriend's 11-year-old son three times in 2024, including twice at the Tarpon Springs home where they lived.
According to the affidavit, Johnson told the boy he was pardoned for storming the Capitol on Jan. 6 and that he was being awarded $10 million for being a "Jan 6'er." Johnson is accused of telling the boy he would be putting him in his "will" to take the money he had left over.
This tactic was believed to be used to keep [the child] from exposing what Andrew had done to him," the affidavit reads."
YOU KNOW WHO DIDN'T GET SHOT...... THE ONES THAT DIDN'T RUN OVER ICE AGENTS
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Some people are calling the victim in the Minnesota case a Domestic Terrorist, vile, she fucked around and found out, etc. and she deserved what happened to her (killed by ICE officer). Posting blatantly fake shit to try and justify their response.
Meanwhile, we pardoned actual domestic terrorists, who have done worse things before (and after J6).
I wanted to see if the folks here agree with the pardons for their actions on J6, and allowing them to walk free (only for many to find themselves back in jail), but think the lady in Minn got what she deserved (death).
EDIT - @ATHEIST CAN YOU PROVIDE ANY SUBSTANTIVE EVIDENCE SHE RAN OVER AN ICE AGENT?
I mean, beyond any reasonable doubt, to justify her being killed for it?
Actual domestic terrorists my ass. Calling J6 a riot was a hoax. The majority of people charged should never have been charged in the first place. There are always bad apples. No need to paint with a broad brush. J6 Looked more peaceful than the protests going on today.
Sounds good. I can understand why you feel this way given your perspective on things.
Minnesota politicians leaning into this as hard as they can…trying to take the attention of thier MULTIBILLION DOLLAR FRUAD problem…
Bwaaahaaaahaaaaaaa
Good luck with that.
If the Federal politicians can (Epstein files withholding after telling the world they would be completely released by a certain date) then why can’t the Minnesota government?
The hypocrisy is astounding! 😂
I don't think she was a terrorist. I certainly don't think she deserved to die.
She is dead because a bunch of people think that ICE agents are dangerously violent and poorly trained and that it's a great idea to encourage naive, impressionable, and emotional people to confront and harass these dangerous ICE agents while they are doing their job.
Agreed and well said. Unfortunately I think the people you describe (naive, impressionable, and emotional) make up a large portion of the American public. We all fall victim to this at times one way or another, no matter how intelligent, enlightened, or whatever you may be. And the system (both sides) uses this to their advantage. And we're seeing it play out daily, further entrenching us in this cycle division and hate. It's great for the controllers of society.
And to be fair, I think the massive surge and speed in which ICE agents are being hired and deployed into the public, does call into question the quality of training they are receiving. The agent who killed the woman in Minn was a veteran agent, and it's clear his training didn't exactly sink in and/or he let his emotions get the best of him and didn't execute good judgement. This only fuels peoples frustration.
ICE should be trained to de escalate situations, not increase it. I'm not exactly convinced things are playing out this way, though I'd love to be swayed otherwise.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/headlines/2026/01/06/ice-hiring-surge-triggers-oversight-concerns-over-training-standards.html
EDIT - when you rush things you usually cut corners and don't do your best work. This is a universal condition.
This made me lol. So true. Although both are horrendous. I do think most people (unless brainwashed) probably would care more about the coverup of implied molestation of dozens if not hundred of children and women from our politicians and celebrities. More than the tax fraud of a city in Minnesota.
And not just universally deescalate, because getting rid of the whole criminal hugging culture is a concession that the left is going to have to make someday, but deescalate or escalate relative to the situation at hand and this didn't really look like a bank robbery.
Agreed. Not like she was trying to storm the US Capitol or anything.
She had her car precariously positioned, and didn't appear aggressive or threatening in any way to me. Received mixed commands from different agents, and the rest is history.
EDIT - Out of the 1600ish people charged in the chaotic events of J6, I think only one of the rioters was shot and succumbed to her injuries...What a contrast to this Minnesota event. Amazing ain't it?
Precariously positioned…😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Like Larry the Cable Guy says; “That’s shit’s funny fight there, I don’t care who you are!”
And, that’s why we’re friends outside this place 😂
Got it. Program-side systems integration and staff support. That helps, actually.
I think the only reason I was scratching my head is that the way you sometimes tell these stories reads more like “inside the chain” than “adjacent to the chain,” and those are pretty different seats in the room. That’s all I was trying to line up.
Pit Row
She didn’t run over anyone. She ran into the ICE agent. I have no idea what was going through her mind when she drove the van forward. I think it’s reasonable to think that more than likely she wasn’t intentionally trying to run over the agent, therefore didn’t deserve to lose her life over the incident. That said , things like this can happen when you start screwing around with armed ICE agents trying to do their job. Wanna protest …. have at it, but don’t interfere with ICE! It’s serious business not a game.
I agree that screwing around with police is not a good idea and I find myself watching body cam videos and wishing that the police weren’t so patient a lot of the time.
But just to explore the topic, it sounds like ICE agents like these don’t exactly have the authority to enforce things like this traffic issue (blocking the street,etc). If we agree with this position, how does the ICE agent trying to force her door open and remove her from the vehicle alter the events that occurred? If ICE doesn’t have that authority, could it be argued that the agents (including the one who fired the weapon and was parked in front of the woman driver) were performing an unlawful detainment of some kind?
I’m not arguing that those points are necessarily valid, I’m just wondering if they are worth considering. I still don’t know that I wouldn’t have done the same thing as the agent if I’d have been in his position.
I'm not law enforcement but I'll try. Obviously, it has something to do with the setting up a perimeter. Once agents have authorization to apprehend a suspect, other officers are set up to protect the operation.
ICE agents do have the authority to detain or arrest people for obstructing their legally defined enforcement activities. I'm pretty sure that'll be the argument. And I'd bet that blocking a road that ICE is operating on in an attempt to disrupt their operations would be considered obstructing.
Exactly! If this had been a state trooper in pursuit of a suspect, she wouldn't have tried to intervein and block the officer with her car. Or if it had been local police surrounding a house to serve a warrant, she wouldn't have driven her car between the officers and the suspect to try and block them...
The week minded have been programmed and brainwashed as a political pawn into thinking that that behavior is ok if its ICE.
See the thing is, unfortunately I find this level of humor hilarious. No matter who it is, I kinda joke about everything and everyone… but my problem is I know a lot of people who joke about this here will be the first ones to be offended if I posted a Kirk meme.
Once she weaponized her vehicle, she was a threat with a weapon. The ICE agent had every right to eliminate the threat. She could have jammed it into reverse and ran over all of them.
I think a couple of different things are getting conflated here, and that’s where this gets messy fast.
First, I agree with Kenny on the basic premise that interfering with armed law enforcement is a terrible idea. Full stop. That’s how situations escalate. I also don’t buy that she 'deserved” to die', and I don’t see conclusive evidence that she intentionally tried to run over anyone. Both of those things can be true at the same time.
Where I’m genuinely curious (and why I posted the Devil's-Advocate type of post about it) is the authority chain here.
ICE has very broad authority within the scope of immigration enforcement. I think that everyone can agree on that, it's well documented.
But they aren't general traffic enforcement officers and they’re not local police. So when someone is blocking a roadway, the normal mechanism is to call local police and have it handled as a traffic/obstruction issue.
So the question isn’t 'should she have been screwing around with ICE?' (No, it was not the way to handle the objection to their presence, tactics, etc.). The question I'm putting forth is, did ICE have legal authority to forcibly remove her from the vehicle for a traffic obstruction, or were they stepping outside their lane and shouldn't have been trying to force her out of her car in the first place?
That matters, because it affects how we should evaluate everything that followed.
If ICE is executing a warrant or operation, and a third party interferes in a way that clearly obstructs that operation, then yes, 'obstruction' becomes the issue. That seems to be the argument harescrambled is referring to, and it may very well be what the DOJ eventually settles on to argue.
But there’s a difference between actively interfering with an arrest, and being an idiot blocking a street because you’re protesting.
One is cleanly within ICE’s wheelhouse/authority. The other is or at least starts drifting into local jurisdiction.
That’s why I asked whether this could be construed as an unlawful detention if ICE lacked the underlying authority to make a traffic stop. I’m not asserting that it was. I’m saying it’s a non-frivolous legal question, and one that any competent defense attorney would/should absolutely raise.
And to rbm33’s point, I agree that if this were a state trooper or local PD, the dynamic would likely have been different. But that’s exactly why this isn’t a clean analogy. Those officers do have general police powers. ICE doesn’t. Different missions/authorities/areas of operations, different legal hooks.
None of this means the agent was malicious. None of it means I know better than he did in the moment. I’ve already said I’m not sure I’d have reacted differently if I felt a vehicle was about to move toward me or impact me.
What I am pushing back on is the lazy narrative of, “She fucked around, therefore anything that happened is automatically justified".
That’s not how use-of-force law works. That’s not how authority works. And it’s definitely not how we evaluate incidents if we’re being even remotely consistent.
You can believe:
-She made a bad decision, and
-The situation was poorly handled, and
-The legal authority question is worth examining, and
-The shooting may still end up being ruled justified
all at the same time.
Those positions are not mutually exclusive. And reducing it to 'brainwashed pawn' vs 'hero agent' just avoids the hard part of the discussion. It's an emotional response rather than a reasoned look at the situation.
Are you absolutely positive about this?
A vehicle is the #1 or #2 weapon that is used against police. I’d bet they are trained to respond exactly like the officer responded.
ICE, DHS, BP all abuse their power on the basis they are Feds. They wear police vests and badging to get people to believe they have authority outside of their narrow scope.
It’s embarrassing that Americans are putting up with it. Their mission is lawful, their methods are not.
Just another weaponized agency that evolved from DHS after 9/11 in a attempt to gain more control and takeaway citizens rights.
An ICE agent going to Dunkin to get a donut would somehow turn that into an active operation so he could tackle and detain someone calling him a fat fuck.
There are so many vids of these guys weaponizing their scope to harass and intimidate US citizens.