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strong logic painting yourself into a corner like that. tell me something. pick a number in USD that represents the LINE below for a full size motorcycle selling for ~$10K
PREP FEE >>>
"scummy pricing tactic"
-------- LINE
legit prep fee
“Sorry Jim, I know you just spent $12k on the new factory edition, but we purchased the local KTM, GasGas, Husky, Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki dealerships to corner the market here but didn’t add to our service department so you need to wait 4 weeks to ride this bad boy. Please don’t hold that against us when it comes time to buy your next bike, that wouldn’t be fair”
You do realize how little margin is in unit sales, right? It's 10%, at best. Parts and service hope to get 30% margin. Payroll, rent, floor plan, franchise fees, utilities, it all adds up quick. Dealerships aren't printing money like you think they are.
Sorry you have dealt with this, but not all dealers are this way. The loud minority of giant dealers add a cloud over the whole industry, we never push bikes out that far even peak season. Worst case is bring it by asap and we will fit it in if one of the guys finishes a job early or stops for a parts wait etc.
Try and have some understanding that we are all humans who also love the sport and want to enjoy it as well as have a passion for others enjoying it, we do a ton of normal work on everything but the whole shop lights up when someone buys a brand new bike from us that is a brand they have never owned and wants us to help them set it all up for their wants plus needs. Its fun and we love being able to give back and help out.
From what I have seen your post through the years I don't think I am going to tilt your aggressive stance towards dealers, not really worth the argument.
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I probably read that wrong but I'm not fully sure what you are even trying to prove at this point. Arguing with you and Yak who seem to always be yelling about dealers was probably a dumb idea on my part.
you are simultaneously defending prep fees and also handwaving them away as a "scummy pricing tactic" - please reconcile this contradiction
Prep fees are not a scummy practice they pay the time needed to uncrate and set a bike up / fuel it up and pdi it when it sells. Some places inflate that number to make more of a margin and that's scummy.
I sing the praises of awesome dealers. I have a local Beta dealer (Metro Motorcycle) and a Yamaha dealer (Port Yamaha) that is 1.5 hours away that are down to earth, willing to help you and don’t tack on BS fees. Funny thing is I found Port when I posted here a thread about why do dealers advertise one price and then add on a ton of fees once you contact them, a person here noticed where I was and recommended them. I’ve purchased 3 bikes, a snowmobile trailer and some gear from them since then. Had a great KTM dealer and a separate Husky dealer that KTM ran out by requiring purchase bikes and parts they would have a hard time selling so they are now at multi brand dealerships that don’t feel the same. Maybe my experiences have jaded me…
To be fair I wasn't a fan of dealers until I started working at one due to my local shop. I have a 40 minute commute and drive by a shop every morning that is about 15 mins down the road from my house lol.
I left the dealerships about 15 years ago for a private shop. What a lot of people don't realize is that they are 3 separate businesses, the sales department can SAY anything it wants, but the parts department doesn't give away inventory and service doesn't give away labor.
does anyone have some pics of the TF450 transmission parts I could take a look at? Im particularly interested in the drum and the forks. My TF450 has been trully great so far. However it has shifted harder than typical from new and now with about 12 hrs on it ( all light duty btw) it still shifts the same. I had 2 ktms that shifted similarly (although they didnt jump out or miss, just shifted hard and notchy). It turned out to be uneven fork finger coating thickness that would tilt the gears slightly on their splined shafts. This would cause a sticktion that actually felt grity even though everything looked fine. I suspect we have a similar issue with the Triumphs. A rather simple fix once ya know what to do with it. Also possible the drums may have been machined slighty out of spec? Anyway I may tear mine down this winter and take a look but any pics I could take a look at ahead of time would be appreciated. I will be very suprised at this point if Triumph steps up and takes care of this one so were gona have to figure it out. I would just buy a Blue bike BUT I really like the Triumph chassis and want to make this work!!
There are plenty of top Vital techs on here who simply don't have access to one so, it looks like you're the Guinea Pig on this.
I could be wrong but if the motor is actually exceptionally well built........the crank wouldn't wobble......why go to the extra effort on the motor only to blow it on a very important part of it ??? Reading this thread, whether this is true or false reporting.....I wouldn't even consider buying any triumph, just to be safe...
Not to stir the pot but MXA ranked Triumph last in the 450 shootout this year all because transmission issues...
yes and whats really interesting is none of the other reviewers have said a peep about this. There is no way they ALL got bikes with no issue unless they were given cherry picked bikes (doubtful). I have newfound respect for MXAs willingness to call this out
Also there is no way the factory Triumph teams dont know about this. Theres simply too many reports for this to be just a few bikes
I suspect there are some quality controll issues at factory. My guess is eather shift forks or drum or both not to spec
Seems unlikley its a design issue. More likley forks or drums not machined properly
I hate to say this but I would hold off buying a Triumph until they make good on the trasmission issues
Its really a shame. I went through a bunch of 2025 bikes and chose the Triumph for the chassis. Its got so much potential but........
Its looking like they may not be willing to make this right. They sent me a letter today saying how they appreciate my buting the 2025 RC and offerening me 500$ twards a 2026. No thanks.
Mechanics need to know if this is a copy of a 2017 or so KTM. Does it have floating shift fork shafts (with springs on either side)? Is the shift drum or the shift star aluminum? Do any of the parts interchange with anything? It's bad if I have more sympathy for you than the manufacturer
I hear ya
At this point I am not sure I will tear mine down and report. Im on the fence between keeping my Triumph or keeping my CRF. I love the Triumph chassis and thats largly why I bought it BUT I may continue working on the Hondas issues instead. If I do tear the Triumph down I will certainly tell all. Much of the reason I took a chance on a first year bike was because it looked like a ktm copy motor. Outside it is BUT inside it is not.
the cases are similar to the 2023 and up 350 SXF not the 2016-2022 versions
I have had the clutch side off so far and this is what I can say...
None of the KTM parts interchange on this side of the motor. Triumph changed everything just enough so the KTM parts dont fit.
the shift star is steel. The "updated" star simply has different tooth profiles that I suspect were an attempt to make a more posative shift BUT that hasnt made things better. I believe the issue is in the forks and or the drum.
the clutch is a ktm styled design BUT changed enough so you cannot exchange with ktm. Triumph gave me a new clutch that has more oil holes and a stiffer disk spring. Any issues people were having with this I suspect was mostly due to too light a disk spring.
the oil pump gears are changed enough so you cannot interchange with KTM so your stuck with the plastic gears. I believe someone is making aluminum gears but I am leary of using aluminum here.
ON the other side of the motor I changed out the plastic oil pump rotor with a steel unit from a 2024 KTM SXF350. It has about 8 hrs on that with no issues. Some are saying the heavyer steel pump rotor may cause plastic drive gear damage over time. iDK but I doubt that. I have reports from others with 20 hrs and no issues. My stock plastic oil pump rotor was sooo out of spec it was almost seiezed in the bore. I suspect anyone who has had plastic drive gear failures is likley because they had a plastic oil pump rotor seizing up and putting hard load on the drive gears. I also suspect if your plastic pump rotor is turning free its probably just fine.
Interesting the plastic pump rotor from Triumph is over 100$ and the steel unit from KTM is around 25$. Some pars on the Triumph are average price BUT some are waaayyy more than the jap bikes. The crankshaft is over a grand!
I very much want this bike to workout as I said I like the chassis and the rest of the bikes are all in science experament more with their chassis.
If Triumph would simply fess up on the trany and make good they will have a reputation that will last. It may be nothing more than some shift forks out of spec.
Pit Row
36 hrs on my 250 with zero issues but I don't use the "quick shift."
Any talk of what the fix is? Any pic's of the problem? I'll I keep hearing is "yeah so and so has a Triumph and it hits false N." Are they just selling the bikes? Are you guys jamming gears with no clutch all the time?
Such a bummer.
OK so what's the conspiracy theory here?
Triumph is spending a lot of $ on the sport so nobody in the industry is talking about the transmission being junk?
Someone show a pic of the failed part. Video of it failing?
why are you assuming its a consperacy?
try the Triumph fakebook page, theres many complaining there that there bike shifts hard, misses shifts, fals nutrals etc
MY TF450 RC has only 12 hrs all easy going (I blew an achilles last season so riding it but not hard) YET it has shifted hard from new
I dont quick shift and I dont power shift
MXA has been talking about this issue for over a year now on the 250 AND recently placed the 450 last place in the 450 shoot out because of the shifting issues
IF there is any Consperacy its with ALL the other reviewers not saying anything about this
BTW I doubt you will see a "failed" part. Ive had bikes that shifted similarly in the past. The issue turned out to be shift forks slightly out of spec that would tilt the gears just slightly causing a sticktion as they slid in the main and counetr shafts.
I suspect we have a similar issue here on the Triumph but worse
Yeah that's part of what I'm saying why are ALL the other reviews not talking about it?
You can see dudes riding and racing these bikes. Am's and pro's. Moto and off road.
Is everyone of those guys tearing down the new motor and putting a new shift fork in? Is that a factory fork "Pro" fix we don't have knowledge of? Is it an aftermarket part just waiting to hit the market? Just take some emery cloth and smooth it out?
I currently own and am riding one of these bikes. I love it. Triumph is a very respected motorcycle manufacturer. I want more information.
yes I want more info as well, thats why I sarted this post. What I want to see is some close up pics of shift forks from a bike thats doing the same. Specifically what do the wear marks on the fork fingers look like? Is there evidence that the forks are not wearing evenly wich would indicate that the forks were not machined perfectly square of some other anomily that would tilt the gears a bit when shifting and possibly causing a bind between the gears and the splined shafts ( main and counter) that they ride on. Or maybe somthing obvious with the drum machining( harder to anylise btw).
The two KTMs I had that shifted hard ( not as bad as my Triumph but felt very similar) turned out to be an uneven sputter coating of bronze on the fork fingers. Most bikes have a fork with a machined finger surface that interfaces with the gear. The KTM design uses just a coating ( bronze or whatever it is) that "beds in " with use. It works great unless the coating is way to thick in one spot. Then the fork will tilt the gear just a tad. This causes a sticktion between the gears spline and the main/ counter shaft spline. It will actually feel like there is grit of some kind in there when ya shift by hand on the stand. And yes you could fix it with some square bolcks and some sand paper if you are good with that kinda thing.
My Triumph feels very similar to that but worse to point where it can actually lock up and miss shift. I suspect its a similar condition in the Triumph HOWEVER it may not be the same exactly. IF the Triumph has machined surfaces on the fork fingers rather than the sputter coat that beds in, Then it may be that the Triumph forks are simply out of spec right from the get go. There have been enough quality controll issues I have found AND have been reported that it reasonable at this point to think that some of these bikes are comming off the line with parts that are out of spec. If a fork is not perfectly machines square it will tilt the gears also. OR maybe a shift drum with groves slighty off? Anyway yes some bikes are aparently OK BUT this is a quite dangerous issue as we see a lot of situations where we need to shft just before a jump face so its scarry.
Heres the list of things I found on my TF450 RC so far......
At the 1 hr mark I changed oil and heres what I found....
1-Wads of red scotch bright pad material all over the screens. Ive seen a few other random pics from others with same. When soaked with oil it looks like sealant and many fooled by that. Squeeze the oil out and look at it under a scope and damn its scotch bright pad material that was not cleaned out of the motor at assembly
2-A half moon chunck of O ring. It was a small diameter oring. Looking through the motor parts list I found there is only one oring that sized and Damn it was the oring that seals the oil squirt jet that sprays oil under the piston. Only way to know if that thing is leaking and thus not squirting enough oil under piston is to split the cases.
3-The plastic oil pump rotor was soooo out of spec it was close to seazing up in its bore. I could not turn it by hand and needed pliers to pull it out. There are reports that the plastic oil pump drive gears are comming apart on some bikes. I suspect the gears are not the problem but more likley the oil pump rotor sticking and putting a hard load on the gears. I replaced mine with a steel oil pump rotor from a 2024 SXF350. I also changed out the plastic drive gears because they looked a bit rough. I assume because the sticking oil pump rotor was loading them hard.
4- the hydrolic cam chain adjuster started rattling hard at sartup at around the 3 hr mark. This is the exact same tensioner that KTM uses and they too do the same often. Many will tell you its not a problem. Ha well Im nat takin a chance on that so I put a manual adjuster in.
5- hard shifting and false nutrals. Mine has been this way from new and has not gotten better. It scares me evey time i approach a jump face out of a turn. Its concerning enough at this point that I am parking the bike for now. It has only 12 light duty hours on it. Im glad I kept the CRF as a backup ha
Anyway from the things I have found so far its reasonable to assume there are gear shift parts that are simply out of spec. I do not believe its a design issue. I suspect from what ive seen so far , there are QC issues at assembly and or part manufacture
I chose this bike after owning the following, 2022SXF450, 2025 SXF350, 2025 CRF450, 2025 YZF450. I chose the Triumph for it CHASSIS. It is a solid effort to build a great bike, not just another chassis that easy to mass produce, and imo its the bike with the most potential once dialed, BUT aparently a number of us got a bad deal. I intend to try and work through this, however imo Triumph should take care of this. Its a big deal. So far they have been preety good with the clutch issues but this one is a tall order. I hope they come clean. It is not reasonable to assume Triumphs pro team isnt aware of this
Anyone ask Keefer what’s up with the shifting?
If a Japanese manufacturer released a model with this litany of obvious quality/design issues, the heads of design and manufacturing would probably commit hari kari in shame for overseeing such a shoddy operation. No company/product is perfect, but this is over the top in my opinion.
The new RacerX has a Keefer Triumph 450 build.
Back on page one, @Kris Keefer popped in and said he'd look into it if somone having the issue would email him the details. Don't think he's posted in this thread since then.
Im on a 26 TF-450X, Im at 13 hours on the bike. 20mm + hammerhead shifter. Dont think it matters but Ill mention it anyway also running OEM clutch plates and Blud Lub 10W-40, down from 10W-50 due to cold weather.
I did some riding around today trying to recreate any sort of false neutrals. Under max throttle on 2nd-3rd and 3rd-4th, and even 4th to 5th. Even topped it out on a long straigh. I had nothing pop up, I even swapped maps around to see if some crazy way it could be related to some thing with engine braking. I played with the quick shifter. I tried clutchless downshifts to with little to no issues. So it might still be a QA issue, with some getting lemons others getting diamonds.
I did notice that the TF450 has a very immediate clutch engagement and disengagement point, you barely have to pull it in. I wonder if it could have something to do with incomplete clutch engagement and disengagement just at all times due to lever drag, or if the fluid heats up.
I purposefully avoided the 25 450RC despite the lower price specifically cause of that possibility. I'll keep an eye on it and let ya'll know.
For those that asked about keefer he knows of the issues they're having or they had.
Everyone of them have had to have the forks, shift drum and shift detent replaced a couple had the trans replaced as well and some with and some without trans issues have had an issue of fiber plates breaking apart. Tabs breaking off or plates grinding apart. I did not see the grinded apart plate personally thats just from another guy at the track. He took both his bikes in for the update amd repairs for the shifting but found issues in the clutch. The way he described it was it looked like someone ground the fiber off the plate and mixed with oil and made a paste around the plates. Ive never in 28 years of moto seen that.
With that said. I have not heard of a single issue with the 26's and as of almost 3 months now triumph has been taking responsibility for everything and getting the bottom ends and clutches taken care of on the 25s.
All I can say is if your shifting feels notchy from 2nd to 3rd your likley gonna have an issue eventually. Also check your stock clutch plates every 10-15hrs or if your clutch seems off a little bit, pop the cover off and look at the plates.
Great bikes otherwise.
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