Venezuelan boats, stopping the illegal drug trade, etc…

matt.3150
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12/4/2025 9:03pm
Not one woman has legitimately passed Ranger school. Same thing for BUD/S. What do you do when women don’t meet the standard? You lower the standards. SMDH...

Not one woman has legitimately passed Ranger school. Same thing for BUD/S. What do you do when women don’t meet the standard? You lower the standards. 

SMDH 🤷

matt.3150 wrote:
That absolutely not true The first women to graduate Ranger School (2015)Capt. Kristen GriestCapt. Shaye HaverThey graduated on August 21, 2015, after completing:The same physical...

That absolutely not true


 

The first women to graduate Ranger School (2015)

Capt. Kristen Griest

Capt. Shaye Haver

They graduated on August 21, 2015, after completing:

The same physical standards

The same graded patrols

The same recycled phases (they recycled like many men do)

No alternate or modified requirements

Rumors that standards were lowered

These came mostly from social media, but the official findings said:

No events, times, distances, or patrol requirements were lowered.

No special exceptions for women except the same recycle opportunities available to all 

no women has passed BUD/S yet


 


 


 


 

TeamGreen wrote:

There is no argument that standards WERE lowered long before that time…? As in several years earlier and the quals/disciplines weren’t enforced as sternly? 

Show me proof, because it’s an internet myth they were lowered.  
They haven’t been!

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3
12/4/2025 9:20pm
ToolMaker wrote:
It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other...

It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other things that can and should be done? For sure, but why complain so much that SOMETHING is being done? The last administration did virtually zero. Now doing something is never good enough for the people that were perfectly fine with doing nothing. SMH

LoudLove wrote:

It’s not significant. In fact it borders on insignificant. 

It's not about drugs...

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early
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12/4/2025 9:23pm Edited Date/Time 12/4/2025 9:24pm
ToolMaker wrote:
It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other...

It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other things that can and should be done? For sure, but why complain so much that SOMETHING is being done? The last administration did virtually zero. Now doing something is never good enough for the people that were perfectly fine with doing nothing. SMH

Given the current informational environment would you support US boots on the ground in Venezuela? 

How significant is the end game here? 

How sure are we they aren't targeting one cartel to give cover to another one connected to this Hernandez from Honduras that just got a pardon?

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eins4eins
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12/5/2025 12:09am
ns503 wrote:
So, who can answer this one - why are they blasting these things where they're blasting them, instead of waiting until they enter US waters to...

So, who can answer this one - why are they blasting these things where they're blasting them, instead of waiting until they enter US waters to do something about them?

Because they'll never gonna enter US waters. 

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The Shop

Ob917
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12/5/2025 5:09am
Zycki11 wrote:
Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right...

Ok intercept the boat... what do you do with the people? You still haven't addressed the issue at hand. You send them back, they come right back on the next one.  Your trying to break it all down to prove a specific point that it is un moral for us to blow up the boats right? Well, each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults. So which is more moral? Boat operators, or millions of people? I personally prefer less death but that is just me.  

LoudLove wrote:
Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. “each...

Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. 

“each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults.” Seems like a dramatic extrapolation as each boat represents a small fraction of total imports. Again, just a theory. 

Zycki11 wrote:
If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY...

If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY little to kill a human roughly 2mg which is 2-3 pebbles of table salt.  Each boat contains hundreds of pounds of this stuff. Do the math

This doesn't even include the cocaine and other substances.  But hey... I get your point.....

Those boats don’t contain any fentanyl. They don’t produce fentanyl in that country. Fentanyl is produced in Mexico mainly

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Ob917
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12/5/2025 5:13am
ns503 wrote:
So, who can answer this one - why are they blasting these things where they're blasting them, instead of waiting until they enter US waters to...

So, who can answer this one - why are they blasting these things where they're blasting them, instead of waiting until they enter US waters to do something about them?

eins4eins wrote:

Because they'll never gonna enter US waters. 

Exactly, like they were about to make it to Miami Beach

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ToolMaker
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12/5/2025 5:31am
ToolMaker wrote:
It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other...

It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other things that can and should be done? For sure, but why complain so much that SOMETHING is being done? The last administration did virtually zero. Now doing something is never good enough for the people that were perfectly fine with doing nothing. SMH

LoudLove wrote:

It’s not significant. In fact it borders on insignificant. 

Says you! The collective of those blown up boats, probably could have supplied all of San Diego for a significant time. This is not a replacement for anything, it's an addition.

Why are you wanting to limit ANY response? Next you'll tell me to leave the corner undocumented pharmacist alone because he/she was only carrying an eight ball.

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LoudLove
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12/5/2025 5:41am
ToolMaker wrote:
It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other...

It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other things that can and should be done? For sure, but why complain so much that SOMETHING is being done? The last administration did virtually zero. Now doing something is never good enough for the people that were perfectly fine with doing nothing. SMH

LoudLove wrote:

It’s not significant. In fact it borders on insignificant. 

ToolMaker wrote:
Says you! The collective of those blown up boats, probably could have supplied all of San Diego for a significant time. This is not a replacement...

Says you! The collective of those blown up boats, probably could have supplied all of San Diego for a significant time. This is not a replacement for anything, it's an addition.

Why are you wanting to limit ANY response? Next you'll tell me to leave the corner undocumented pharmacist alone because he/she was only carrying an eight ball.

The key word is “probably”. In all of this commotion none of us know the volume of drugs destroyed nor their intended destination.  Could it be a significant amount?  Possibly, but unlikely, knowing the volume required to fuel the industry. 

TM, we all agree in curtailing the illegal drug trade benefits the US and its citizens. But the focus on this tiny portion of the industry is overkill and belies the mission’s true purpose. The Trump Administration is not heralding other actions to the same degree, and that’s by design. These missions are not meant for drug cartels; theyre aimed squarely at Maduro. 

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ToolMaker
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12/5/2025 6:01am
LoudLove wrote:

It’s not significant. In fact it borders on insignificant. 

ToolMaker wrote:
Says you! The collective of those blown up boats, probably could have supplied all of San Diego for a significant time. This is not a replacement...

Says you! The collective of those blown up boats, probably could have supplied all of San Diego for a significant time. This is not a replacement for anything, it's an addition.

Why are you wanting to limit ANY response? Next you'll tell me to leave the corner undocumented pharmacist alone because he/she was only carrying an eight ball.

LoudLove wrote:
The key word is “probably”. In all of this commotion none of us know the volume of drugs destroyed nor their intended destination.  Could it be...

The key word is “probably”. In all of this commotion none of us know the volume of drugs destroyed nor their intended destination.  Could it be a significant amount?  Possibly, but unlikely, knowing the volume required to fuel the industry. 

TM, we all agree in curtailing the illegal drug trade benefits the US and its citizens. But the focus on this tiny portion of the industry is overkill and belies the mission’s true purpose. The Trump Administration is not heralding other actions to the same degree, and that’s by design. These missions are not meant for drug cartels; theyre aimed squarely at Maduro. 

Why can't it be something as simple as the Gazelle theory? You don't go after the whole herd and fail spectacularly, you pick off 1 at a time till the herd is manageable to go after.

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ToolMaker
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12/5/2025 6:20am
early wrote:
The problem with cocaine and most drugs nowadays is that theres always the chance that fentanyl is in it. Fentanyl and opiates are involved in 80%...

The problem with cocaine and most drugs nowadays is that theres always the chance that fentanyl is in it. Fentanyl and opiates are involved in 80% of overdose deaths that also involved cocaine. I really think that fentanyl was introduced to the drug supply to discourage the use of all drugs. The "war" on it is a smokescreen.

The cartels have been lacing cocaine with fentanyl for quite some time as a way to get customers dependent.  A Cocaine user may purchase a small amount once or twice a month. But get that customer addicted to the fentanyl component and the customer is back every other day.

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ToolMaker
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12/5/2025 6:23am
LoudLove wrote:
Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. “each...

Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. 

“each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults.” Seems like a dramatic extrapolation as each boat represents a small fraction of total imports. Again, just a theory. 

Zycki11 wrote:
If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY...

If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY little to kill a human roughly 2mg which is 2-3 pebbles of table salt.  Each boat contains hundreds of pounds of this stuff. Do the math

This doesn't even include the cocaine and other substances.  But hey... I get your point.....

Ob917 wrote:

Those boats don’t contain any fentanyl. They don’t produce fentanyl in that country. Fentanyl is produced in Mexico mainly

Sure, they're just transporting charitable children Christmas toys in those million $ boats.

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LoudLove
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12/5/2025 6:28am
ToolMaker wrote:
Says you! The collective of those blown up boats, probably could have supplied all of San Diego for a significant time. This is not a replacement...

Says you! The collective of those blown up boats, probably could have supplied all of San Diego for a significant time. This is not a replacement for anything, it's an addition.

Why are you wanting to limit ANY response? Next you'll tell me to leave the corner undocumented pharmacist alone because he/she was only carrying an eight ball.

LoudLove wrote:
The key word is “probably”. In all of this commotion none of us know the volume of drugs destroyed nor their intended destination.  Could it be...

The key word is “probably”. In all of this commotion none of us know the volume of drugs destroyed nor their intended destination.  Could it be a significant amount?  Possibly, but unlikely, knowing the volume required to fuel the industry. 

TM, we all agree in curtailing the illegal drug trade benefits the US and its citizens. But the focus on this tiny portion of the industry is overkill and belies the mission’s true purpose. The Trump Administration is not heralding other actions to the same degree, and that’s by design. These missions are not meant for drug cartels; theyre aimed squarely at Maduro. 

ToolMaker wrote:
Why can't it be something as simple as the Gazelle theory? You don't go after the whole herd and fail spectacularly, you pick off 1 at...

Why can't it be something as simple as the Gazelle theory? You don't go after the whole herd and fail spectacularly, you pick off 1 at a time till the herd is manageable to go after.

I agree. But the level of force is not commensurate with the threat level.  The DEA’s data shows Venezuelan drugs are largely bound for Europe. So kudos to Trump for helping our EMEA allies. 

Dedicating a carrier battle group to the region displays the firepower at Trump’s disposal.  The drug boats provide a nice excuse to send in the fleet, but this is own backyard; we have mainland assets that can tackle any problem, and quickly. The USS Ford demonstrates our ability to reach global targets. But that carrier is currently enjoying a port call in St Thomas (where I won a karaoke contest back in ‘93), signifying the “threat” isn’t truly significant. 

We can get the job done with special forces and a handful of drones. What is the carrier’s role?

1
ToolMaker
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12/5/2025 6:33am
ToolMaker wrote:
It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other...

It's pretty apparent we have some drug production/transpertation/distribution/sales experts here. That being said, I for one am glad they are doing something significant. Are there other things that can and should be done? For sure, but why complain so much that SOMETHING is being done? The last administration did virtually zero. Now doing something is never good enough for the people that were perfectly fine with doing nothing. SMH

early wrote:
Given the current informational environment would you support US boots on the ground in Venezuela? How significant is the end game here? How sure are we they aren't...

Given the current informational environment would you support US boots on the ground in Venezuela? 

How significant is the end game here? 

How sure are we they aren't targeting one cartel to give cover to another one connected to this Hernandez from Honduras that just got a pardon?

Not in the sense you're trying to trap me in an answer that's misleading. You don't believe Pablo Escobar was eliminated without US help do you? All this "blow up the lab shit" I say the same to you, they'll build new labs. This is not a one strategy wins the war. It's going to take an all in approach. And blowing up the million $ special built supply boats is just one small part of it.

Like it or not, it's effectively eliminating that supply route. Are there others? Of course, there's going to be a shit ton of work to get this under control if we can even do it at this point. Why? So many people do recreational drugs and they'll just vote out anyone trying to stop their supply.

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Zycki11
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12/5/2025 6:46am Edited Date/Time 12/5/2025 6:49am
LoudLove wrote:
Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. “each...

Well, military action is based on intel. And in most cases, people who are alive provide greater intel than dead folks. But that’s just a theory. 

“each one of those boats contains drugs that will kill millions of young kids, adolescents, and adults.” Seems like a dramatic extrapolation as each boat represents a small fraction of total imports. Again, just a theory. 

Zycki11 wrote:
If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY...

If you understand how Fentanyl works, then you will understand.  Trying to downplay the significance and danger of a drug is no joke. It takes VERY little to kill a human roughly 2mg which is 2-3 pebbles of table salt.  Each boat contains hundreds of pounds of this stuff. Do the math

This doesn't even include the cocaine and other substances.  But hey... I get your point.....

Ob917 wrote:

Those boats don’t contain any fentanyl. They don’t produce fentanyl in that country. Fentanyl is produced in Mexico mainly

They do contain fentanyl. Cartels have gotten into the game, chemicals mainly come from China. But you know businesses is business. So they produce as well. It isn’t just Mexico. 

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R66
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12/5/2025 7:30am

I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery.  

AZ35
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12/5/2025 7:39am
R66 wrote:
I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery...

I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery.  

Fentanyl has been very commonly used since the early 1960's.

Wasn't until it started to get mixed into illegal drugs that it became a problem.

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disbanded
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12/5/2025 7:47am
R66 wrote:
I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery...

I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery.  

I refuse to take fentanyl before surgery because it takes me days to recover from the affects.  Propofol for the win!  Give me my milk...

ToolMaker
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LoudLove wrote:
The key word is “probably”. In all of this commotion none of us know the volume of drugs destroyed nor their intended destination.  Could it be...

The key word is “probably”. In all of this commotion none of us know the volume of drugs destroyed nor their intended destination.  Could it be a significant amount?  Possibly, but unlikely, knowing the volume required to fuel the industry. 

TM, we all agree in curtailing the illegal drug trade benefits the US and its citizens. But the focus on this tiny portion of the industry is overkill and belies the mission’s true purpose. The Trump Administration is not heralding other actions to the same degree, and that’s by design. These missions are not meant for drug cartels; theyre aimed squarely at Maduro. 

ToolMaker wrote:
Why can't it be something as simple as the Gazelle theory? You don't go after the whole herd and fail spectacularly, you pick off 1 at...

Why can't it be something as simple as the Gazelle theory? You don't go after the whole herd and fail spectacularly, you pick off 1 at a time till the herd is manageable to go after.

LoudLove wrote:
I agree. But the level of force is not commensurate with the threat level.  The DEA’s data shows Venezuelan drugs are largely bound for Europe. So...

I agree. But the level of force is not commensurate with the threat level.  The DEA’s data shows Venezuelan drugs are largely bound for Europe. So kudos to Trump for helping our EMEA allies. 

Dedicating a carrier battle group to the region displays the firepower at Trump’s disposal.  The drug boats provide a nice excuse to send in the fleet, but this is own backyard; we have mainland assets that can tackle any problem, and quickly. The USS Ford demonstrates our ability to reach global targets. But that carrier is currently enjoying a port call in St Thomas (where I won a karaoke contest back in ‘93), signifying the “threat” isn’t truly significant. 

We can get the job done with special forces and a handful of drones. What is the carrier’s role?

You know how to tell this is a nonissue? In 2 weeks the libs will be on a different "catastrophic constitutional crisis"

While we can disagree what's appropriate, if you have kids, at one time or another, your kid(s) did something wrong. After which you made a big issue of it (to make an impression for future reference) sent them to their room, and then laughed your ass off about it because it was actually funny. It's the message. You don't believe we do joint naval exercises off the coast of N Korea because we need practice do you?

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R66
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12/5/2025 7:49am
R66 wrote:
I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery...

I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery.  

disbanded wrote:

I refuse to take fentanyl before surgery because it takes me days to recover from the affects.  Propofol for the win!  Give me my milk...

I had thought it was another illegal drug like crack or meth. I did not realize there is a legitimate use for it. 

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ToolMaker
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12/5/2025 7:51am
R66 wrote:
I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery...

I was surprised to learn recently that fentanyl is part of the cocktail they give you when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep before a surgery.  

disbanded wrote:

I refuse to take fentanyl before surgery because it takes me days to recover from the affects.  Propofol for the win!  Give me my milk...

R66 wrote:

I had thought it was another illegal drug like crack or meth. I did not realize there is a legitimate use for it. 

Like Marijuana, the product produced today is not the product of years gone by

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soggy
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12/5/2025 7:58am
Zycki11 wrote:
So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on...

So now we need to allow them to enter the us under custody and spend money to send them back? Remember, they are hauling DRUGS on a boat which is ILLEGAL. Despite the circumstance, the United States is saying "We will not allow this to flood in our country" Much like having stiff laws the citizens understand the juice may not be worth the squeeze.  The feelings of empathy have zero business in this situation whatsoever. Peace through STRENGTH.  That means, don't fuck with us.

El_Rayo wrote:
Wait….so let me get this straight.You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat...

Wait….so let me get this straight.


You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat to the U.S. , 


You still would want them to be blown up and killed? 

Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line

Fentanyl isn't coming from Venezuela.

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soggy
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12/5/2025 7:59am
Zycki11 wrote:
You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back...

You still haven't answered the obvious question here... What do you do with the people on the boats? If you send them back, they come back on another boat. You still don't address the issue. If you blow the fucker up, they think a little harder about it, because again. They only have so much manpower.  Not all of them are friendly farmers. 

soggy wrote:
Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. We could get rid of the production...

Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. 

We could get rid of the production facilities tomorrow if we actually wanted to do something with tangible benefits. 

Zycki11 wrote:
Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake...

Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake. I agree with the dog and pony show.   If deemed a terrorist organization, then treat it as such and take them out.  

if you know its all just a smoke and mirrors and not actually doing anything, could be making it worse cause we are killing potentially innocent people, why do you cheer for it?

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LoudLove
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12/5/2025 8:18am
ToolMaker wrote:
Why can't it be something as simple as the Gazelle theory? You don't go after the whole herd and fail spectacularly, you pick off 1 at...

Why can't it be something as simple as the Gazelle theory? You don't go after the whole herd and fail spectacularly, you pick off 1 at a time till the herd is manageable to go after.

LoudLove wrote:
I agree. But the level of force is not commensurate with the threat level.  The DEA’s data shows Venezuelan drugs are largely bound for Europe. So...

I agree. But the level of force is not commensurate with the threat level.  The DEA’s data shows Venezuelan drugs are largely bound for Europe. So kudos to Trump for helping our EMEA allies. 

Dedicating a carrier battle group to the region displays the firepower at Trump’s disposal.  The drug boats provide a nice excuse to send in the fleet, but this is own backyard; we have mainland assets that can tackle any problem, and quickly. The USS Ford demonstrates our ability to reach global targets. But that carrier is currently enjoying a port call in St Thomas (where I won a karaoke contest back in ‘93), signifying the “threat” isn’t truly significant. 

We can get the job done with special forces and a handful of drones. What is the carrier’s role?

ToolMaker wrote:
You know how to tell this is a nonissue? In 2 weeks the libs will be on a different "catastrophic constitutional crisis"While we can disagree what's...

You know how to tell this is a nonissue? In 2 weeks the libs will be on a different "catastrophic constitutional crisis"

While we can disagree what's appropriate, if you have kids, at one time or another, your kid(s) did something wrong. After which you made a big issue of it (to make an impression for future reference) sent them to their room, and then laughed your ass off about it because it was actually funny. It's the message. You don't believe we do joint naval exercises off the coast of N Korea because we need practice do you?

You didn’t even ask what song I sang at the karaoke contest!  My word…

He’s the challenge:  no one’s laughing in this scenario. I could be wrong, but I don’t believe US forces blasted any North Koreans during those joint exercises.  And we shouldn’t need an excuse to spin circles off the Venezuelan coast. But killing anonymous people on small boats can be tied to stemming the flow of drugs, so why not!  

I’m no democrat, nor do I label every Trump act as evil. I’m also not christening every action the president takes as legitimate.  Just don’t lie to us and say this is about drug interdiction. 

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APLMAN99
Posts
13020
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
12/5/2025 8:20am
soggy wrote:
Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. We could get rid of the production...

Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. 

We could get rid of the production facilities tomorrow if we actually wanted to do something with tangible benefits. 

Zycki11 wrote:
Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake...

Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake. I agree with the dog and pony show.   If deemed a terrorist organization, then treat it as such and take them out.  

soggy wrote:
if you know its all just a smoke and mirrors and not actually doing anything, could be making it worse cause we are killing potentially innocent...

if you know its all just a smoke and mirrors and not actually doing anything, could be making it worse cause we are killing potentially innocent people, why do you cheer for it?

People cheer for this for the entertainment value.  It's sort of like the immigration issue.  Obama was the biggest deporter of illegal aliens that we've had, but he wasn't at the podium painting all immigrants from certain countries or whole ethnicities as evil, so it didn't have the entertainment value that some people crave.  The appearance of cruelty is of huge entertainment value to many, unfortunately.  Rationalizing the killing of these alleged attempted smugglers is just another confirmation of that, really.  

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3
ToolMaker
Posts
10421
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Location
Escondido, CA, USA
Fantasy
12/5/2025 8:47am
LoudLove wrote:
I agree. But the level of force is not commensurate with the threat level.  The DEA’s data shows Venezuelan drugs are largely bound for Europe. So...

I agree. But the level of force is not commensurate with the threat level.  The DEA’s data shows Venezuelan drugs are largely bound for Europe. So kudos to Trump for helping our EMEA allies. 

Dedicating a carrier battle group to the region displays the firepower at Trump’s disposal.  The drug boats provide a nice excuse to send in the fleet, but this is own backyard; we have mainland assets that can tackle any problem, and quickly. The USS Ford demonstrates our ability to reach global targets. But that carrier is currently enjoying a port call in St Thomas (where I won a karaoke contest back in ‘93), signifying the “threat” isn’t truly significant. 

We can get the job done with special forces and a handful of drones. What is the carrier’s role?

ToolMaker wrote:
You know how to tell this is a nonissue? In 2 weeks the libs will be on a different "catastrophic constitutional crisis"While we can disagree what's...

You know how to tell this is a nonissue? In 2 weeks the libs will be on a different "catastrophic constitutional crisis"

While we can disagree what's appropriate, if you have kids, at one time or another, your kid(s) did something wrong. After which you made a big issue of it (to make an impression for future reference) sent them to their room, and then laughed your ass off about it because it was actually funny. It's the message. You don't believe we do joint naval exercises off the coast of N Korea because we need practice do you?

LoudLove wrote:
You didn’t even ask what song I sang at the karaoke contest!  My word…He’s the challenge:  no one’s laughing in this scenario. I could be wrong...

You didn’t even ask what song I sang at the karaoke contest!  My word…

He’s the challenge:  no one’s laughing in this scenario. I could be wrong, but I don’t believe US forces blasted any North Koreans during those joint exercises.  And we shouldn’t need an excuse to spin circles off the Venezuelan coast. But killing anonymous people on small boats can be tied to stemming the flow of drugs, so why not!  

I’m no democrat, nor do I label every Trump act as evil. I’m also not christening every action the president takes as legitimate.  Just don’t lie to us and say this is about drug interdiction. 

I already know the song "I'm too sexy for my shirt"

Really, did the surfacing sub not kill 9 anonymous people? Well, before they were identified anyway.

And these are NOT innocent boaters on the water. How many people did Obama's drone strikes kill? Did it stop the war? Why did he keep doing it?

A while back a photo was posted of leafs in the yard. Should he just leave them as raking them up will not stop new leafs from falling, should he cut the tree down? What if he buys a tractor with a vacuum because he can? Let's just agree that you don't approve and I do approve.

TM

5
Zycki11
Posts
7945
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/5/2025 9:10am
soggy wrote:
Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. We could get rid of the production...

Chances are if they are working for the cartel saying no would be far worse for them and there family. 

We could get rid of the production facilities tomorrow if we actually wanted to do something with tangible benefits. 

Zycki11 wrote:
Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake...

Right, they continue to do it anyways.  Sending them back does nothing, I agree take out the facilities and cut off the head of the snake. I agree with the dog and pony show.   If deemed a terrorist organization, then treat it as such and take them out.  

soggy wrote:
if you know its all just a smoke and mirrors and not actually doing anything, could be making it worse cause we are killing potentially innocent...

if you know its all just a smoke and mirrors and not actually doing anything, could be making it worse cause we are killing potentially innocent people, why do you cheer for it?

You think we are just killing innocent people? We are also in the middle of creating a deterrent, setting the precedent. It is easy to sit there and say we should do this or that. Truth is, sending the “fisherman” lmao back is just a cycle. 

To think we stop every single shipment is asinine. If one goes through the cracks it’s a ton of American lives at risk. Weigh your options. Them or us. Pretty simple. 

9
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
14243
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX, USA
12/5/2025 9:10am
El_Rayo wrote:
Wait….so let me get this straight.You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat...

Wait….so let me get this straight.


You’re saying even hypothetically,  if they were regular citizens held against their families will, by the cartel, to drive a boat to the U.S. , 


You still would want them to be blown up and killed? 

Zycki11 wrote:
I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is...

I do not want anyone blown up or killed, but I do believe in peace through strength. One of two things will happen and that is, Cartels don't give a shit and continue and try the same methods utilizing "threatened family men"(for the record I am of belief this is happening) which will end in the same exact fashion, the Cartel losing a ton of money and product. Or they get the picture and more than likely flood Canada with more drugs and try and get it across the northern border. 

First option sucks for human life no doubt about it.  But say it saves one extra shipment of fentanyl coming in the country because they know it is an automatic loss of product. That alone saves millions of lives. If you were to catch and release said criminals... what is to stop them from coming right back on the very next boat? Same exact scenario as Saving Private Ryan letting the german soldier go back to the front lines, just to kill more Americans.  Were all German soldiers bad men? No they were not. But it is not our responsibility to police that emotional barrier.  They are bringing the deadliest chemical in the world to our shores period.  Cartels are terrorist organizations.... Organization....key word.  Of course they are going to do illegal evil things like sending innocent men on boats. Perhaps that is a political stunt they are pulling so people like yourself get upset? But it doesn't help protect our country and the people inside of it.  That is the bottom line

soggy wrote:

Fentanyl isn't coming from Venezuela.

You realize that Venezuela and China are pretty tight, right?

Well, the chemicals used to make Fentanyl in Mexico come from China. Mexico is just assembling the product. Since Maduro already has a good relationship with China, why would it be a stretch to think that they would be doing the same thing that Mexico is doing?

I don't have proof either way, but all the pieces are certainly in place for that to happen.

2
early
Posts
10109
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
12/5/2025 9:17am

I couldn't find 1 press release or statistic confirming seizure of fentanyl by the Coast Guard on the east coast. If someone has better luck with the Internet machine I'd be interested to see it. Like I said earlier, throwing out !Fentanyl! feels a lot like !WMD! did 22 years ago. I just don't want the US military driven into another quagmire by boneheads.

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3
12/5/2025 9:19am
disbanded wrote:

I refuse to take fentanyl before surgery because it takes me days to recover from the affects.  Propofol for the win!  Give me my milk...

R66 wrote:

I had thought it was another illegal drug like crack or meth. I did not realize there is a legitimate use for it. 

ToolMaker wrote:

Like Marijuana, the product produced today is not the product of years gone by

Pain patches contain Fentanyl and I'm sure like other pain meds there are many other forms of it used legitimately.  It has always been super strong, even the legally prescribed stuff is super strong. A big reason it kills people is that they do not know it is in whatever they are taking . Its not really a matter of street stuff being stronger, its the unknown that illegal Fentanyl brings.

 

Its great that there are meds that can help people in extreme  pain. I just wish they would put more effort into developing some that are safer, less addiction and less potential for overdose. The Pharmaceutical industry is as much to blame for developing drugs that become recreational drugs.

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