How Long Will It Take Till Two Strokes Come Back?

bullpen58
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 11:45am
I mean, it's inevitable. It's part of the marketing scheme to keep us buying more and more bikes and for the prices to keep going up and up. What would it take to make two-strokes come back to the top of the heap?

A simple rule change allowing equal displacement? Doubt that would do it.

What about EFI on a two stroke? Is that gonna make them better? Doubt it.

What about some kind of after-burner or tubo boost? Would that be the trick?

You be the judge. You make the call. I wanna know what it will take and when this is gonna happen.
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NeWskoolmxer
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11/27/2010 3:39pm Edited Date/Time 11/27/2010 3:40pm
equal displacement and the 4 stroke will quickly be phased out of pro riding. It's a power struggle and in the displacement rule in effect now the 4 stroke is much more powerful. I'm actually looking to trade my 250f for a 250 2 stroke here soon I got so much slower on the F it was pitiful.
Slow
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11/27/2010 3:40pm
Right after the Domination of the electric bike! But guys like you will keep them alive forever.
jbond722
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11/27/2010 3:41pm
The pinger is back in amatuer. Just hasn't made it to the pro ranks yet.
bullpen58
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11/27/2010 3:51pm
Slow wrote:
Right after the Domination of the electric bike! But guys like you will keep them alive forever.
I'm not a two-stroke fan at all. I'm just looking forward to when they come back so I can keep riding four strokes and feel all "retro" and shit.

The Shop

newmann
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11/27/2010 3:56pm
Slow wrote:
Right after the Domination of the electric bike! But guys like you will keep them alive forever.
bullpen58 wrote:
I'm not a two-stroke fan at all. I'm just looking forward to when they come back so I can keep riding four strokes and feel all...
I'm not a two-stroke fan at all. I'm just looking forward to when they come back so I can keep riding four strokes and feel all "retro" and shit.
You must be a huge 250F fan then?
Ashleymx
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11/27/2010 4:17pm
Last nights Super X here in Australia got me thinking. I can guarantee if the top guys switch to 250 2 strokes in the lites class they'll continue finishing up front just like before but the unfair advantage thing would then come up meaning they'll just get banned. As long as only 10th place guys choose to ride 250 2 strokes against the 250fs the rule can continue. Catch 22
Hank_Thrill
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11/27/2010 4:47pm
The economy is not turning around anytime soon, so...

I don't see the professional level of racing ever going back to two-strokes. The damage is done, and there is no turning back. However, It appears more people are buying used two strokes to have fun on.

Doesn't matter to me, I'll always mix my gas.
MX4EVR
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11/27/2010 5:11pm
The economy is not turning around anytime soon, so... I don't see the professional level of racing ever going back to two-strokes. The damage is done...
The economy is not turning around anytime soon, so...

I don't see the professional level of racing ever going back to two-strokes. The damage is done, and there is no turning back. However, It appears more people are buying used two strokes to have fun on.

Doesn't matter to me, I'll always mix my gas.
me to!
just got back home with my kids, we rode all day and smoked it up like a mofo. what a great day in Oklahoma today, 62 and sunny, no wind. My 2011 yz250 is starting to feel broke in. It is a lot faster than the last 250 I owned ( 02 yz250 ) All the bs bitchin I hear about the only thing changed is the Bold New Grafix!! Who cares, its fast as hell if you know how to ride it! I just sold my white 09 yz450f 2 months ago and never looked back
bullpen58
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11/27/2010 6:30pm
The economy is not turning around anytime soon, so... I don't see the professional level of racing ever going back to two-strokes. The damage is done...
The economy is not turning around anytime soon, so...

I don't see the professional level of racing ever going back to two-strokes. The damage is done, and there is no turning back. However, It appears more people are buying used two strokes to have fun on.

Doesn't matter to me, I'll always mix my gas.
People said the same thing about four strokes for decades.
Nutty C
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11/29/2010 1:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/29/2010 1:05pm
They have not left. If you are any good you should be able to win on one at the Am. level. Most riders are Am. speed.
bullpen58
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11/29/2010 1:12pm
Nutty C wrote:
They have not left. If you are any good you should be able to win on one at the Am. level. Most riders are Am. speed.
What is below the skill level of "amateur"? Because that's where I'm at. Hence, I need a 450 to have ANY shot at doing ANYTHING in races. lol
ATKpilot99
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11/29/2010 1:19pm
You just wanted to start a multiple page 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke pissing match didn't you? Laughing
bullpen58
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11/29/2010 1:23pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
You just wanted to start a multiple page 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke pissing match didn't you? Laughing
Pretty much . . . but in the flavor of being "pro-four-stroke" . . . for once. Wink
NP301
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11/29/2010 3:29pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
You just wanted to start a multiple page 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke pissing match didn't you? Laughing
bullpen58 wrote:
Pretty much . . . but in the flavor of being "pro-four-stroke" . . . for once. Wink
Im 14 & think four strokes suck! Angry
OSJ
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11/29/2010 3:38pm
one of the problems i see is that for all these 2 stroke guys, i bet less than 1/3 of them go out and buy a brand new 2 stroke? everybody is out buying used bikes and that does not much for the big 5. there is far to many people out ther ebuying brand new 4 strokes so that is what they will keep making.
so for all the 2 stroke nuts out there, if you want to try and make a real difference, go buy a brand new bike.

i dont see a switch back to 2 strokes in pro racing in the near future anyway. cost to much for all the new R&D and tooling to build new bikes that wont sell as much as the 4 strokes do.

i have always been a 2 stroke guy, raced them my whole life. but just made the switch to a 250f and it is so much more fun.

lets try and not turn this into a 2 vs 4 thing like always.

some prefer one, some prefer the other.

i just dont understand why all the 2 stroke guys have to try and convince the world there bikes are better???

even racing 2 strokes at the top ameture level, if you want to get past that, you will need to be able to ride a 4 stroke at the same speed. so why ride the 2 stroke anyway?
KAWboy14
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11/29/2010 3:38pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
You just wanted to start a multiple page 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke pissing match didn't you? Laughing
bullpen58 wrote:
Pretty much . . . but in the flavor of being "pro-four-stroke" . . . for once. Wink
NP301 wrote:
Im 14 & think four strokes suck! Angry
well bring your 80cc 2 stroke out and run with the big boys!
NP301
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11/29/2010 3:44pm
bullpen58 wrote:
Pretty much . . . but in the flavor of being "pro-four-stroke" . . . for once. Wink
NP301 wrote:
Im 14 & think four strokes suck! Angry
KAWboy14 wrote:
well bring your 80cc 2 stroke out and run with the big boys!
I won a youthB overall on a 100 Evil
Andimers
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11/29/2010 3:45pm
NP301 wrote:
Im 14 & think four strokes suck! Angry
Please come back in 2 years, lol.
NP301
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11/29/2010 3:50pm
NP301 wrote:
Im 14 & think four strokes suck! Angry
Andimers wrote:
Please come back in 2 years, lol.
once I'm dominating on 125? oh yeah i will Cool
Karma
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11/29/2010 4:08pm
Are there any of you who love both, I do!
jmar
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11/29/2010 4:32pm
They are gaining on the weekend enthusiast, but they will never make their way back to pro level racing.
Blake
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11/29/2010 5:02pm
4 strokes are for street. I dont even watch the pro races anymore.

Its like going to a F1 race, and they sound like carbureted POS Nascars! No thanks.

Blake
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11/29/2010 5:07pm
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DBerg
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11/29/2010 5:19pm Edited Date/Time 11/29/2010 5:21pm
I think Jmar got it right. I've always raced 4strokes but now that I'm in college and taking it seriously, I don't have the time or money to race, so I bought a 125 so that I have something to play around on. Both are fun to ride. If you can argue that one is fun and the other isn't, then I question how much you really like moto, because for most of us, it's just all about being out on the track and doing laps.

Really it should be an issue of new vs. old, rather than 4t vs 2t. Some mention that more are buying used 2-strokes, but it seems to me like more people are just buying used in general. Motocross was an expensive sport when you could buy a brand new 250F for $5500 OTD, now you're looking at $7K+ for a brand new 250F at a time when people are more worried about their budgets. For those people like me that can't afford something like that, used is the only realistic option, and when you're thinking of your broke ass budget and a used bike that someone did who knows what to, all those extra moving parts are a scary thought. So what do we do? We start leaning towards the 2stroke. The ease of maintanance, smaller number of moving parts, and cheaper cost of those parts makes it seem like less of a risky investment. On the flip side, I probably won't ever sell my 125 because the resale will probably be terrible, but for $1000, who cares?
akmx17
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11/29/2010 5:19pm
Karma wrote:
Are there any of you who love both, I do!
Im not a 250T fan but im also not a 450F fan.

But I love 125s and 250fs <3
E-man811
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11/29/2010 5:35pm
The problem is that for 2 strokes to be competitive they would have to faster than the 250f and 450f, and those bikes are already too fast.

The sport needs to slow down if it is going to survive. It just keeps getting faster and bigger and faster and bigger and Etc, etc, etc. ....without any advancements in safety or efforts or forethought to support the grass roots base of racers and tracks.

The next revolution will be a new promoter / sanctioning body with E-bikes or smaller CC lighter bikes. Some day, maybe one more generation when moto is untouchable to little johnny due to cost or legislation.
DBerg
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11/29/2010 5:40pm
That's a good point. Unfortunately it seems like the moto industry will have to fall on its ass before it gets more affordable. I'm no Ms. Cleo, so I don't know that it'll happen, but the way things are going, it seems like before long, you'll be able to buy a R6 for the same price as a YZ450F. It's hard to spend that much money on something that you're going to take out in the dirt and beat up on.
Flatliner
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11/29/2010 5:44pm
E-man811 wrote:
The problem is that for 2 strokes to be competitive they would have to faster than the 250f and 450f, and those bikes are already too...
The problem is that for 2 strokes to be competitive they would have to faster than the 250f and 450f, and those bikes are already too fast.

The sport needs to slow down if it is going to survive. It just keeps getting faster and bigger and faster and bigger and Etc, etc, etc. ....without any advancements in safety or efforts or forethought to support the grass roots base of racers and tracks.

The next revolution will be a new promoter / sanctioning body with E-bikes or smaller CC lighter bikes. Some day, maybe one more generation when moto is untouchable to little johnny due to cost or legislation.
I'm competitive with my 150-170LB buddies on their 250f's, vs 220lbs on a RM 250. More than happy with that.
jmar
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11/29/2010 6:02pm
DBerg wrote:
That's a good point. Unfortunately it seems like the moto industry will have to fall on its ass before it gets more affordable. I'm no Ms...
That's a good point. Unfortunately it seems like the moto industry will have to fall on its ass before it gets more affordable. I'm no Ms. Cleo, so I don't know that it'll happen, but the way things are going, it seems like before long, you'll be able to buy a R6 for the same price as a YZ450F. It's hard to spend that much money on something that you're going to take out in the dirt and beat up on.
If we were talking about another type of industry, I would agree, but competition dirtbikes are a very small part of the big fours business model.
11/29/2010 6:23pm
exactly Jim.....

how many bikes, lets say crf450's were made in 2005 world wide? 30/50 thousand? probably same for crf250's.

how many honda civics were made.... 300, 400, thousand
accords, probably 100k more

its enough to be worth it for honda, but not enough to carry 2 lines, cr and crf. plus, that size, you can move your target and meet consumer demands VERY quickly in industry terms, 2 or 3 years. thats light speed compared to the car market.

fact is, once 2004 hit, they couldnt give away a $5700 250 2 stroke, and couldnt make enough, fast enough, of a $6500 450 4 stroke. in 2005, it got worse for both cases... they made less 2 strokes and couldnt get rid of them, and made more 450 4 strokes and still didnt make enough.....

now i am a manufacturer..... hmmmm i make 50k of one model and they are sold as fast as i can get them to the dealer, or i make 15k of another model, and 8 months later, 10k of them are still sitting there.....

yeah, you forum guys are right.

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