Suzuki transmissions..

nadeauracing229
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nadeauracing229
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 2:02am
I always hear they hit false neutrals how many of there bikes actually have that problem?
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mattmatt300
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mattmatt300 11/26/2010 8:41pm
11/26/2010 8:41pm
neutral is between 1st and 2nd gear on most bikes
kx100getter
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kx100getter 11/26/2010 9:07pm
11/26/2010 9:07pm
I hit neutral coming out of a tight corner trying to clikc 2nd. It screws everything up.
nadeauracing229
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nadeauracing229 11/26/2010 9:08pm
11/26/2010 9:08pm
I get it sometimes also on my 09 kawi 250f just wondering about the suzuki hope to get one of those..
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 11/26/2010 10:54pm
11/26/2010 10:54pm
kx100getter wrote:
I hit neutral coming out of a tight corner trying to clikc 2nd. It screws everything up.
Very informative response, thanks for your valuable and relevant contribution.

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Chili
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Chili 11/26/2010 10:59pm
11/26/2010 10:59pm
We had a bit of an issue with this on our last Suzuki (07 RMZ-250) it was fixed with a cheap detent spring upgrade, not sure how the 08-current has faired in this regard as we went green after the 07. The bigger issue we had with the 07 was breaking clutch plates but that got better with a mid season upgrade that year from Suzuki.
MXVet261
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MXVet261 11/26/2010 11:41pm
11/26/2010 11:41pm
I've never had a problem with that on Suzukis.
TripleFive 11/27/2010 12:05am
11/27/2010 12:05am
Used to have a kx85 about 9 years ago that would hit a false neutral. After about three times on the face of a jump and one serious concussion it was time to make that bike disappear. No mechanical problem affects your confidence more than a bike that hits a false neutral.
Jake-247
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Jake-247 11/27/2010 12:50am
11/27/2010 12:50am
kx100getter wrote:
I hit neutral coming out of a tight corner trying to clikc 2nd. It screws everything up.
nytsmaC wrote:
Very informative response, thanks for your valuable and relevant contribution.
Laughing
jim598
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jim598 11/27/2010 3:32am
11/27/2010 3:32am
my boy rode a 09 rmz450, it is now my harescramble bike. the bike shifts great. we have never had one problem with it great bike!!
twister
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twister 11/27/2010 4:13am
11/27/2010 4:13am
I have a 08 rmz250.No problems so far.
swizcore
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swizcore 11/27/2010 6:44am
11/27/2010 6:44am
My 08 RMZ250 is the smoothest shifting bike I've ever ridden. My tranny has been tumbled though.
bvm111
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bvm111 11/27/2010 7:31am
11/27/2010 7:31am
are you saying you go slow enough on a track to use first gear.... really?
TeamPropainTurbo38t 11/27/2010 8:05am
11/27/2010 8:05am
bvm111 wrote:
are you saying you go slow enough on a track to use first gear.... really?
RV said he uses first gear in SX
Flatliner
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Flatliner 11/27/2010 8:23am
11/27/2010 8:23am
I had no issues with my 08 rmz, also no issues with my rm 250.
MX 95
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MX 95 11/27/2010 8:39am
11/27/2010 8:39am
The Suzuki transmissions are known to hit false neutrals when on the gas. With my 08 RMZ250, the false neutral was between third and fourth. To fix this, all I did was get some Pro Circuit heavy-duty clutch springs. If you ride all the time, replace the springs every year and you won't have a problem.

Any of the fuel-injected 450s from Suzuki do not have this problem though.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 11/27/2010 8:48am
11/27/2010 8:48am
I know a guy who broke his femur on a Bazooki hitting a false neutral. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
Karma
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Karma 11/27/2010 10:22am
11/27/2010 10:22am
Cygnus wrote:
I know a guy who broke his femur on a Bazooki hitting a false neutral. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
MXA tested the 11 450 and said they had the same issue between 2 and 3rd, good times if that happens wide open on a steep jump. If all it takes however is some heavy duty springs than its no big deal, Otherwise it would keep me from buying what is an awesome bike.

Question, why do some manufacturer's keep having the same problem year after year? Does Suzuki have a bin a 5 billion cheap springs they are too cheap to replace? The savings on that is far outwieghed by having a shizzy rep for poor quality
And Kaw, its had a push forever, Change the damm offset or something already!.Fix it!

And Stinkbug Honda, unstink it!!!

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OldGuy
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OldGuy 11/27/2010 10:54am
11/27/2010 10:54am Edited Date/Time 11/27/2010 10:56am
MX 95 wrote:
The Suzuki transmissions are known to hit false neutrals when on the gas. With my 08 RMZ250, the false neutral was between third and fourth. To...
The Suzuki transmissions are known to hit false neutrals when on the gas. With my 08 RMZ250, the false neutral was between third and fourth. To fix this, all I did was get some Pro Circuit heavy-duty clutch springs. If you ride all the time, replace the springs every year and you won't have a problem.

Any of the fuel-injected 450s from Suzuki do not have this problem though.
What has clutch springs got to do with hitting a false neutral? Maybe a new detent spring
mxb2
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mxb2 11/27/2010 11:12am
11/27/2010 11:12am
Cygnus wrote:
I know a guy who broke his femur on a Bazooki hitting a false neutral. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
Karma wrote:
MXA tested the 11 450 and said they had the same issue between 2 and 3rd, good times if that happens wide open on a steep...
MXA tested the 11 450 and said they had the same issue between 2 and 3rd, good times if that happens wide open on a steep jump. If all it takes however is some heavy duty springs than its no big deal, Otherwise it would keep me from buying what is an awesome bike.

Question, why do some manufacturer's keep having the same problem year after year? Does Suzuki have a bin a 5 billion cheap springs they are too cheap to replace? The savings on that is far outwieghed by having a shizzy rep for poor quality
And Kaw, its had a push forever, Change the damm offset or something already!.Fix it!

And Stinkbug Honda, unstink it!!!
Whats the cure for the gear issue? Is it fixable? or just a problem that will never end?
mxrudi
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mxrudi 11/27/2010 12:45pm
11/27/2010 12:45pm
Have never had any problems......... just change your oil every 5h and use quality.
07, 08 RM 125,
2x RMZ 250 09,
3x RMZ 450 06,
RMZ 450 09
Karma
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Karma 11/27/2010 1:24pm
11/27/2010 1:24pm
Cygnus wrote:
I know a guy who broke his femur on a Bazooki hitting a false neutral. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
Karma wrote:
MXA tested the 11 450 and said they had the same issue between 2 and 3rd, good times if that happens wide open on a steep...
MXA tested the 11 450 and said they had the same issue between 2 and 3rd, good times if that happens wide open on a steep jump. If all it takes however is some heavy duty springs than its no big deal, Otherwise it would keep me from buying what is an awesome bike.

Question, why do some manufacturer's keep having the same problem year after year? Does Suzuki have a bin a 5 billion cheap springs they are too cheap to replace? The savings on that is far outwieghed by having a shizzy rep for poor quality
And Kaw, its had a push forever, Change the damm offset or something already!.Fix it!

And Stinkbug Honda, unstink it!!!
mxb2 wrote:
Whats the cure for the gear issue? Is it fixable? or just a problem that will never end?
Well someone said its a simple cure, stiffer clutch springs...that would be great. I have heard of mod companies like Pro-circuit etc will do your bottem end, basically just polishing things up, the gears etc, and than putting some kind of hardening coating baked on I think, on them so the gears don't wear, and your shifting will be buttery smooth. I think thats essentially what a factory tranny is all about, along with higher quality bearings, grease, aircraft grade?crank balancing etc. for more rpm and reliabilty.

I am sure someone else on here can explain that process on here better. If your mechanically inclined you could split the cases and polish is fairly easy with a dremel and the right polishing compounds or extremely fine sand paper- or emery cloth I think I used for my exhaust ports on my 2 strokes look almost as smooth as chrome with rubbing compound and a dremel, but gears would probally an entire different process that you could find out about.

Now that I think about it I am tempted to try it out on my next bike, regardless of brand, just for the piece of mind, missing a shift can have serious consequences. The learning experience would be cool too! I think a smooth shifting bike is a very over looked part of a great race bike.

One would have to get the coating done by someone, who knows maybe your local hotrod-race car shop would do it cheaply, I got them to balance my crank for cheap.

A professional moto mechanic on here would have better info on the subject.
mxb2
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mxb2 11/27/2010 1:29pm
11/27/2010 1:29pm
I believe the process is called IFS and CV4 can do the process, some magazines also mention it, think the cost was $425. A slow rider like me probab ly woud nt notice the difference, but if it eliminates missed shifts, i m all for it and it might save me a trip over the bars!
Cygnus
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Cygnus 11/27/2010 1:32pm
11/27/2010 1:32pm
I have been a professional mechanic for 30 years. Buy a Honda and don't worry about it.
aztecmx
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aztecmx 11/27/2010 2:50pm
11/27/2010 2:50pm Edited Date/Time 11/27/2010 2:57pm
False neutrals happen with the sequential shift drum transmissions that have been common to motorcycles for a very long time. Has nothing to do with the clutch (a stronger detent spring that cures the problem indicates a flawed original design). Has everything to do with the 'dogs' of the gears 'biting' and holding onto the adjacent gear. The solution is simple if you have the mechanical expertise you should have if you own a motocross bike. Solution: All (as in 100%) of the gear dogs need to be machined to be just less than 90 degrees from the longitudinal aspect of the mainshaft or driveshaft. I cut all mine to 85 degrees net. In a five speed transmission you will be machining approximately 15 dogs and 15 adjacent surfaces. The net effect is the gears 'drive' themselves into each other, they never hit a false neutral under power. The downside is harder shifting under full throttle (the cure of which is to strengthen your foot). Another partial downside that exists but I don't mind is that if you are sloppy shifting, the transmission will complete the gear change at the expense of bending the shift fork if the gear drum is not fully rotated (I suspect this is why manufacturers don't undercut dogs). Done this starting on XR75's thru Elsinore 125/250's thru Suzuki RM125/370 thru CX650T thru YZ250's (one with WR450F transmission) thru YZ450F (WR450F transmission). To my knowledge no manufacturer undercuts the dogs, but I stand to be corrected. My experience with KTM's and Kawi's is zed so grant me a pardon there. If this all sounds like mumbo jumbo, then please don't try this at home kids.
TerryK
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TerryK 11/27/2010 4:02pm
11/27/2010 4:02pm
aztecmx wrote:
False neutrals happen with the sequential shift drum transmissions that have been common to motorcycles for a very long time. Has nothing to do with the...
False neutrals happen with the sequential shift drum transmissions that have been common to motorcycles for a very long time. Has nothing to do with the clutch (a stronger detent spring that cures the problem indicates a flawed original design). Has everything to do with the 'dogs' of the gears 'biting' and holding onto the adjacent gear. The solution is simple if you have the mechanical expertise you should have if you own a motocross bike. Solution: All (as in 100%) of the gear dogs need to be machined to be just less than 90 degrees from the longitudinal aspect of the mainshaft or driveshaft. I cut all mine to 85 degrees net. In a five speed transmission you will be machining approximately 15 dogs and 15 adjacent surfaces. The net effect is the gears 'drive' themselves into each other, they never hit a false neutral under power. The downside is harder shifting under full throttle (the cure of which is to strengthen your foot). Another partial downside that exists but I don't mind is that if you are sloppy shifting, the transmission will complete the gear change at the expense of bending the shift fork if the gear drum is not fully rotated (I suspect this is why manufacturers don't undercut dogs). Done this starting on XR75's thru Elsinore 125/250's thru Suzuki RM125/370 thru CX650T thru YZ250's (one with WR450F transmission) thru YZ450F (WR450F transmission). To my knowledge no manufacturer undercuts the dogs, but I stand to be corrected. My experience with KTM's and Kawi's is zed so grant me a pardon there. If this all sounds like mumbo jumbo, then please don't try this at home kids.
That pretty much sums it up! Us drag racers have been undercutting transmissions for decades.
gotwings
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gotwings 11/27/2010 4:47pm
11/27/2010 4:47pm Edited Date/Time 11/27/2010 4:48pm
My buddy had to replace 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears, shift drum and shift forks on his '10 Rmz 450 because it wouldn't stay in gear under power. Almost killed him off of a big table. All this at 10 hours on the bike. He sold it and got the '11 and it's doing the same thing! Get a Honda and forget about it!
Karma
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Karma 11/27/2010 5:20pm
11/27/2010 5:20pm
gotwings wrote:
My buddy had to replace 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears, shift drum and shift forks on his '10 Rmz 450 because it wouldn't stay in gear...
My buddy had to replace 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears, shift drum and shift forks on his '10 Rmz 450 because it wouldn't stay in gear under power. Almost killed him off of a big table. All this at 10 hours on the bike. He sold it and got the '11 and it's doing the same thing! Get a Honda and forget about it!
lol, yup the few times Ive veered from Red it was a disaster!
jim598
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jim598 11/27/2010 5:57pm
11/27/2010 5:57pm
this can go on and on.. but really if you go to thumpertalk and pick any model and you will find horror stories on any of them.

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