Pirating MX Movies

11/18/2010 3:03am
I agree, have a download option in HD. It is also much more affordable and more accessible to people in other countries.
ReedyMX
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Gold Coast, AU
11/18/2010 3:20am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2010 3:22am
Just remember that if 80000 people downloaded it. It does not mean that you have missed out on 80000 sales.

It is a proven fact that 99% of the people that download a film would not buy it anyway so you have not missed out as much as you think.



Every other film maker is in the same boat as you. You have to calculate piracy into your strategy and sales forecast's. Learn to live with it every one else does.



The way I see it is if there was money to be made in MX films. There would be more people making them thus increasing supply and you probably would make no money anyway. Catch 22.



I think you are about 15 years too late to think about making big money selling MX films during the crusty years you could not get enough.

These days you have so much to choose from and so much other media like internet, youtube, racex films, Transworld films, Fuel TV etc etc etc you do not need to get films to get your fix.
alphado
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Erie, PA, USA
11/18/2010 4:33am
Skip the music, it ruins every DVD that I have.

Make a 2-stroke DVD and let us here the sweet sound of the engines.
11/18/2010 4:45am
ReedyMX wrote:
Just remember that if 80000 people downloaded it. It does not mean that you have missed out on 80000 sales. It is a proven fact that...
Just remember that if 80000 people downloaded it. It does not mean that you have missed out on 80000 sales.

It is a proven fact that 99% of the people that download a film would not buy it anyway so you have not missed out as much as you think.



Every other film maker is in the same boat as you. You have to calculate piracy into your strategy and sales forecast's. Learn to live with it every one else does.



The way I see it is if there was money to be made in MX films. There would be more people making them thus increasing supply and you probably would make no money anyway. Catch 22.



I think you are about 15 years too late to think about making big money selling MX films during the crusty years you could not get enough.

These days you have so much to choose from and so much other media like internet, youtube, racex films, Transworld films, Fuel TV etc etc etc you do not need to get films to get your fix.
You dudes are missing the point. I didn't start this to debate sales strategies and testing new models for DVD sales. And believe me, I know 80K is just a number...just showing how bad download sucks. No one has ever come close to selling that, ever...at least I wouldn't imagine. Skateboard stuff doesn't even touch that.

We sold a shit ton of our last DVD. I'm not trying to sit here and say we didn't. Just saying I spent a ridiculous amount of money to make a "complete package". Book/DVD combo with major label artists. I thought it was something people would actually want to buy rather than download.

All in all, it is the "the way of the world now" but that's the entire intent of my post. Motocross is family, and support those who support the sport. Don't steal from them if you decide you do want to a commercial DVD title.

The Shop

11/18/2010 6:05am
You dudes are missing the point. I didn't start this to debate sales strategies and testing new models for DVD sales. And believe me, I know...
You dudes are missing the point. I didn't start this to debate sales strategies and testing new models for DVD sales. And believe me, I know 80K is just a number...just showing how bad download sucks. No one has ever come close to selling that, ever...at least I wouldn't imagine. Skateboard stuff doesn't even touch that.

We sold a shit ton of our last DVD. I'm not trying to sit here and say we didn't. Just saying I spent a ridiculous amount of money to make a "complete package". Book/DVD combo with major label artists. I thought it was something people would actually want to buy rather than download.

All in all, it is the "the way of the world now" but that's the entire intent of my post. Motocross is family, and support those who support the sport. Don't steal from them if you decide you do want to a commercial DVD title.
I bought it and it was worth every penny. I hope you keep creating new MX media...
wreckitrandy
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Granite Falls, NC, USA
11/18/2010 6:12am
Jabjr222 wrote:
It's a difficult time now for anyone producing anything that can be traded digitally. There has to be a massive paradigm shift and one has to...
It's a difficult time now for anyone producing anything that can be traded digitally. There has to be a massive paradigm shift and one has to assume their work will be traded openly through torrents. The trick is to give them something beyond a digital file and increase the value of the physical product.

My personal belief is that music, digitally speaking, should be seen simply as a marketing cost to promote the bands merch and concerts. There is no hope of ever ending piracy. And people will always take something for free rather than paying for it. I think this has to be the business plan in the music industry.

Films though, I really am conflicted because you don't have as much merchandising opportunities (with some exceptions for toys related to kids flicks) or appearances (not in the same sense as concerts) to make money from. Same game though, increase the value of the physical product or figure out another way to make money (advertising through product placement?) because no matter how many they prosecute, piracy is the new norm.
It's stealing plain and simple. Using your business model, you should go do your job for free and make money on the coffee and doughnuts you bring everyone.
pjs dad
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Awendaw, SC, USA
11/18/2010 7:36am
The point is simple, the kid created a worthy product to sell and profit by and people are STEALING it!
If this is just a marketing strategy GOOD, IT WORKED.
I am going to the web page below and buying my own copy and a few others dvd's for Christmas presents.

http://store.vurbmoto.com/
CR250Rider
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Moses Lake, WA, USA
11/18/2010 8:47am
If it's good, I always buy it.

i recently counted my dvds and have over 2000

+2000 x $19.95 is over 40 grand.

$15-$25 is a lot for a movie you watch once or twice.

with the proper price point, pirating would dry up.
Adam43
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WF
11/18/2010 9:06am
Creating the film itself is only half the battle. You have to face the realities of the industry.

Expecting a good return through conventional DVD sales is short-sighted. Some people will pay, most will not. Digital sales, advertising/placement in the movie, and forgetting about the music would be where I would start.

noob
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11/18/2010 10:23am
Adam43 wrote:
Creating the film itself is only half the battle. You have to face the realities of the industry. Expecting a good return through conventional DVD sales...
Creating the film itself is only half the battle. You have to face the realities of the industry.

Expecting a good return through conventional DVD sales is short-sighted. Some people will pay, most will not. Digital sales, advertising/placement in the movie, and forgetting about the music would be where I would start.

"... forgetting about the music would be where I would start."

Wes,

Don't compromise on the music or any other aspect of your work. I hope you're able to fund another project of the same scale as Epic. Join the long list of great directors who's first works were critically acclaimed, but commercial flops. Bring Anthill Films-level quality to moto media.

https://vimeo.com/7799335

ANTHILL DEMO REEL from Anthill Films on Vimeo.




You're our only hope...

JaumeTGO
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Tarragona, ES
11/18/2010 10:36am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2010 10:42am
Could someone please tell me where can I buy NOW this two DVD (moto 2 and the last TGO) in Europe??



Thank you very much.
JohnnyO_57
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Pleasant Valley, NY, USA
11/18/2010 12:35pm
It's amazing how people can justify stealing!! WOW!!

The quality of films like the ANTHILL demo reel is unheard of. As a comparison look at some of the early Gary Bailey instructional videos. There is no comparison!

I wish you the very best Wes... good luck.
mxb2
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11/18/2010 12:39pm
Sucks for Wes, but people have been making copies of movies and dvd s for a long time, the internet does nt help either!
11/18/2010 12:44pm
mxb2 wrote:
Sucks for Wes, but people have been making copies of movies and dvd s for a long time, the internet does nt help either!
This isn't about me or me trying to get sympathy. I just wanted to use my influence to spread word so people will think twice about downloading motocross DVDs. There's a ton of good titles out this year, and instead of downloading them off torrents, support these guys so you can see more next year.

Vurb is a huge destination for video. I know very well that fact in itself hurts our DVD sales. People can watch quality videos all day long for free, so why buy. I understand the way of the world.

But the point being, if you're going to get a motocross DVD. Just buy it, don't steal from your own.
zookrider62!
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11/18/2010 12:47pm
CR250Rider wrote:
[b]If it's good, I always buy it.[/b] i recently counted my dvds and have over 2000 +2000 x $19.95 is over 40 grand. $15-$25 is a...
If it's good, I always buy it.

i recently counted my dvds and have over 2000

+2000 x $19.95 is over 40 grand.

$15-$25 is a lot for a movie you watch once or twice.

with the proper price point, pirating would dry up.
no it wouldnt. the price they would have to beat is $0
Brent
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11/18/2010 1:14pm
I agree, have a download option in HD. It is also much more affordable and more accessible to people in other countries.
Goddamn right.

DVD media is old technology anymore. I havent put a DVD in a player in I can't remember how long.

Streaming media from the mac to your big screen is where it's at, or even from your PC if you're a Microsoft luddite.

www.handbrake.fr
11/18/2010 1:28pm
I prefer just popping in a DVD wherever i go. I have Epic playing at all times on my flip out DVD player in my van.
Jabjr222
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11/18/2010 1:45pm
It's stealing plain and simple. Using your business model, you should go do your job for free and make money on the coffee and doughnuts you...
It's stealing plain and simple. Using your business model, you should go do your job for free and make money on the coffee and doughnuts you bring everyone.
Golly, thanks for the intelligent and well written reply. You obviously spent a lot of time on that.

And no, it's not the same thing at all, not if that was the plan, ie. release music as a promotional tool for the bands appearances and merch. I made clear that I didn't feel the same about films.

The way it is now, this is the new norm. Companies can either embrace it or they will be out of business. Technology has destroyed a number of industries and anyone who's products can be distributed digitally is going to have a hard time making it. Sad but true.
FastEddy
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💀, FL, USA
11/18/2010 2:47pm
ReedyMX wrote:
Just remember that if 80000 people downloaded it. It does not mean that you have missed out on 80000 sales. It is a proven fact that...
Just remember that if 80000 people downloaded it. It does not mean that you have missed out on 80000 sales.

It is a proven fact that 99% of the people that download a film would not buy it anyway so you have not missed out as much as you think.



Every other film maker is in the same boat as you. You have to calculate piracy into your strategy and sales forecast's. Learn to live with it every one else does.



The way I see it is if there was money to be made in MX films. There would be more people making them thus increasing supply and you probably would make no money anyway. Catch 22.



I think you are about 15 years too late to think about making big money selling MX films during the crusty years you could not get enough.

These days you have so much to choose from and so much other media like internet, youtube, racex films, Transworld films, Fuel TV etc etc etc you do not need to get films to get your fix.
You dudes are missing the point. I didn't start this to debate sales strategies and testing new models for DVD sales. And believe me, I know...
You dudes are missing the point. I didn't start this to debate sales strategies and testing new models for DVD sales. And believe me, I know 80K is just a number...just showing how bad download sucks. No one has ever come close to selling that, ever...at least I wouldn't imagine. Skateboard stuff doesn't even touch that.

We sold a shit ton of our last DVD. I'm not trying to sit here and say we didn't. Just saying I spent a ridiculous amount of money to make a "complete package". Book/DVD combo with major label artists. I thought it was something people would actually want to buy rather than download.

All in all, it is the "the way of the world now" but that's the entire intent of my post. Motocross is family, and support those who support the sport. Don't steal from them if you decide you do want to a commercial DVD title.
Alot of people are to lazy to order stuff,then wait for it to be shipped etc...
Seems like when they want to see/watch something they head straight for torrent sites to download it and watch it on the spot.

Just an idea...

Obviously you invested alot of money and put alot of thought and work into your movie and I assume you were hoping to see a decent return.

I wonder if you had the movie uploaded to the site and you streamed it for a small fee,something like $9.99 (maybe throw in an extra scene). I wonder if that would help off set your costs and persuade people not to head straight for the torrent sites.
Perhaps if they really liked it,they may even buy the "complete package".

Also ,not sure if you have tried DMCA takedown notices to the torrent sites.
But I guess that is always a shot in the dark and probably not effective if they are over seas.






BobbyM
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11/18/2010 2:59pm
even worse are the folks that rip off charity/donation type dvd's such as magoos dvd's...weak.
phlewy
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Roseville, CA, USA
11/18/2010 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/18/2010 5:33pm
kburgie wrote:
Once upon a time there was a man named Wes Williams who set out to produce the greatest motocross movie anyone had ever seen. He traveled...
Once upon a time there was a man named Wes Williams who set out to produce the greatest motocross movie anyone had ever seen. He traveled the country to do it, shot the best riders with the best equipment (including rented helicopters) and used music from major recording artists, legally ($$$).

Wes despises the use of pirated anything -- music, software and movies in particular. So it bummed me out to read on his new blog post that 80,000 people have downloaded his masterpiece illegally and that he didn't even break even on the DVD.

80,000 x $30 = $2,400,000

If you like motocross movies then people like Wes are the wrong people to steal from. There's no huge conglomerate backing his projects or paying him a salary and without funds there will be no more movies. It's the same reason video game companies shifted away from PCs and toward consoles.

Always remember that there's an overworked and underpaid professional motocross fan out there behind everything you consume online, for free, and then complain about. Whether it's a website, photo gallery, editorial or video, a real human being made it happen.

Read Wes's blog post and go buy some DVDs.

http://www.vurbmoto.com/blogs/1874/am-i-wrong-my-own-great-debate/
?
kburgie
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USA
11/18/2010 5:43pm
phlewy wrote:
?
Actually, I have what you wrote. It went like this:

----------

"Wes is a moron and a moron's moron.

His understanding about how money works is beyond pathetic.

If you truely had a greater, or better idea, someone would pay for it. Plenty of clothing, bike, track, boot, bars, pegs, tires, drinks, helmets, spokes, wheels, carbs, forks, stands, haulers, promoters (geez I exhaust myself), would pay dearly for a semi"infomercial", which.... promoted the exciting aspects of the sport, and subtly, promoted the list above.

They would pay, and free downloads would not be an issue.

No no no.... instead they see a boob come along with a purist, innovative, great-great, wonderful idea. And guess what? They think to themselves, hey!, he still promotes our products and it doesn't cost us a thing. What a boob this dude is. Why not let him con a bunch of investors, (probably his mom and dad), we get promoted, he loses his shirt (really his mom and dad). And we get promoted for free.

I see the hand wringing and chest-thumping about how downloaders are thieves... blah blah blah. Bull Shiet! Don't believe me? Check out red bulls mastery of the marketing game. They control market, they control message, they control distribution, they control profits. Look at RB's prowess in the internet, I want this for free world.

Unfortunately for Wes, a fool is born every minute.

BTW, where can I get the MOTO2 Torrent? I've got moto1, I would like moto2. SOunds like a killer vid and I like things for free.

Thanks"
11/18/2010 5:51pm
I'll go ahead and chuckle at that one
mxxer126
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11/18/2010 6:09pm
FFS it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement. Big difference. Don't compare it to "stealing a motorcycle" because it's not. A digital copy is made while the original is left. This argument is as old as the internet. You can't just look at the 80,000 person figure and call it lost sales. Like somebody said, it's been proven that almost everybody who downloads, wasn't going to buy it in the first place. So 80,000 x $30 != $2,400,000. It's also been proven that piracy has HELPED artist by giving them a free distribution platform. Digital distribution FTW.

But maybe those 80,000 people are non-mx people who never knew about the film until they saw it on TBP? Or maybe they downloaded it, watched 2 seconds, and deleted it. That number has no foundation.

This argument is so long and goes so deep into things like net neutrality, big media, saying FUCK YOU to media conglomerates, new markets, redefined distribution models, etc. It's just not as simple as the idiots in this thread think it is. Too bad really because the internet is set to take a bad turn at the hands of the media giants and this is just a tiny tip of the iceberg. Just do some research on this "issue." It's not so clean cut.
zookrider62!
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11/18/2010 8:01pm
mxxer126 wrote:
FFS it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement. Big difference. Don't compare it to "stealing a motorcycle" because it's not. A digital copy is made while the...
FFS it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement. Big difference. Don't compare it to "stealing a motorcycle" because it's not. A digital copy is made while the original is left. This argument is as old as the internet. You can't just look at the 80,000 person figure and call it lost sales. Like somebody said, it's been proven that almost everybody who downloads, wasn't going to buy it in the first place. So 80,000 x $30 != $2,400,000. It's also been proven that piracy has HELPED artist by giving them a free distribution platform. Digital distribution FTW.

But maybe those 80,000 people are non-mx people who never knew about the film until they saw it on TBP? Or maybe they downloaded it, watched 2 seconds, and deleted it. That number has no foundation.

This argument is so long and goes so deep into things like net neutrality, big media, saying FUCK YOU to media conglomerates, new markets, redefined distribution models, etc. It's just not as simple as the idiots in this thread think it is. Too bad really because the internet is set to take a bad turn at the hands of the media giants and this is just a tiny tip of the iceberg. Just do some research on this "issue." It's not so clean cut.
you saying none of those 80,000 would have bought the video if it werent for the torrent being available?

I cant believe some of you guys defending theft or copyright infringement, unfucking real
CamP
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11/18/2010 8:11pm
I would venture to guess that a lot of that 80,000 are international people that would have a difficult time procuring a DVD. Sell downloads in addition to DVD's and that number should drop.
CRF STUFF
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11/18/2010 11:19pm
noob wrote:
Epic comes in a rad hardcover booklet/case that looks pretty on my bookshelf. I play the DVD regularly on my computer at work for the soundtrack...
Epic comes in a rad hardcover booklet/case that looks pretty on my bookshelf. I play the DVD regularly on my computer at work for the soundtrack and to catch peripheral moto action.

It's really fucking good, folks. Buy a copy! The Eli Tomac segment alone is worth $30
CamP wrote:
I've never seen the movie, but no movie is worth $30 to me. I don't care about fancy cases. If mx movies cost $10 per download...
I've never seen the movie, but no movie is worth $30 to me. I don't care about fancy cases. If mx movies cost $10 per download, I would go for it and I'm sure 1000's of others would too.
BINGO!

I'm all over it.
11/19/2010 3:29am
In Europe they charge almost 35 euros for a Motocross DVD that's a whooping 48 bucks for a DVD, plus shipping.
Just look for yourself: http://www.x-tremevideo.com/dvd/motocross.

Sure if I had the opportunity to download it for nothing I would do it, but if you could buy it in ITunes for 12/15 $ I would go for it.
I have hundreds of DVD that costed me thousand of USD. Nowadays with ITunes and thing like that you don't have to pay big bucks for movies or music
Matt Wozney
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11/19/2010 4:53am
When I produced my Moto Xposure 3 DVD back in 2007, it was a heavy and intense project for myself. Thousands spent into music rights. Countless hours of clicking, dragging, filming, editing, marketing, and post production time. Its not an easy gig to get involved in. In the end, I got a little bit out of it with an Xtremey Award as my cherry on top and all that but I started noticing the torrent sites with my movie title available for download. I knew right then and there that I lost the battle and DVDs weren't the way to go. All that time and money thrown out the window in a click. For this reason and cost concerns is why I don't produce full-length DVDs anymore.

Generally, this is how MXPTV started. Full quality web videos/shows available on the fly every day/few days. I went full bore with internet videos. Free to watch and yes, they get downloaded and I've seen my work posted on other people's YouTube channels and sometimes other places. I've even had people tell me they download a video they like of mine off of YouTube to their computer, which I'm 50/50 on unless they sell it. (This is usually the kid's parents and such where they see their kid in the video for a few seconds.) But to help cope with the download rip-offs, I see it as promotion as I have my MXPTV logo watermarked on every video I do or if I see it on YouTube, I'd ask the person to add a credit in the description or if that doesn't happen, I contact YouTube to take it down. Im not making a huge profit at all (advertising helps), but it still keeps me doing what I do, week in and week out. DVDs aren't my goal anymore. I've tried cheap, cheap digital downloads and YouTube video rentals. A few will do it but for most that see those dreaded dollar signs, that's an automatic turn off because its on the web.

I understand Wes' frustration for sure. He does great work. Having a large amount of loss sales isn't great. But there are alternatives and with technology evolving constantly and consistently, there are other ways. To me, physical DVDs had its time and its not for the web. Today, people want to see videos on demand more than ever. Netflix and Hulu are good examples here. For independent filmmakers, its tough to get in but over time, the door will be opened more and more as technology evolves. Piracy is always a few steps ahead and its hard to stop. If its free in any way, people will do whatever they can to get it. They are the bottom of the barrell and we have to be on top of it and control our work in the end.
CamP
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11/22/2010 6:18pm
CamP wrote:
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your...
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your movie for $10?
Netflix raises prices for some subscription plans (AP)
Source: AP Mon Nov 22, 2010, 10:08 am EST

LOS GATOS, Calif. - Netflix Inc. is raising the prices of some of its subscription plans and is shifting its focus to streaming video as more members move to the Internet to watch movies and television shows. Its shares surged more than 7 percent in trading Monday.

With high-speed online access now becoming a household staple and various gadgets making it easier to connect high-definition TVs to the Web, Netflix is realizing it needs to evolve as Internet streaming goes mainstream.

The company based in Los Gatos, Calif. previously announced that more of its members are watching more content streamed over the Internet than on DVDs. To deal with this shift, Netflix says it will spend more this quarter to license streaming content than to buy DVDs.

Netflix said Monday that its subscription plan for unlimited movies and TV shows streamed over the Internet and unlimited DVD deliveries — with one DVD out at a time — will increase by $1 a month to $9.99. Prices for other plans allowing for more DVDs out at a time are also going up.

Existing members will incur the price increases in January, while people who are new sign-ups will face the higher prices immediately. Netflix has more than 16 million members in the U.S. and Canada and predicted in October that it would gain another 2.1 million to 2.9 million customers by year's end. That means Netflix could enter 2011 with more than 19 million subscribers, doubling the service's size in two years.

Netflix is also launching a $7.99 a month streaming-only plan in the U.S. to accommodate the online shift. It already has a streaming service in Canada for a monthly fee of 7.99 Canadian dollars ($7.86).

"We are now primarily a streaming video company," co-founder and CEO Reed Hastings said in a statement.


Netflix is spending heavily to obtain the streaming rights to more movies and TV shows to help lure more customers and shift more of its existing subscribers away from DVDs.

In the third quarter, Netflix spent $115 million on video streaming rights, up from just $10 million at the same time last year. Spending on DVDs dropped 35 percent from a year ago to just under $30 million in the third quarter.

Netflix shares jumped $12.74, or 7.4 percent, to $185.78 in morning trading. Over the last year, the stock has traded in a range of $48.52 to $184.74.

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