Pirating MX Movies

kburgie
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 6:54am
Once upon a time there was a man named Wes Williams who set out to produce the greatest motocross movie anyone had ever seen. He traveled the country to do it, shot the best riders with the best equipment (including rented helicopters) and used music from major recording artists, legally ($$$).

Wes despises the use of pirated anything -- music, software and movies in particular. So it bummed me out to read on his new blog post that 80,000 people have downloaded his masterpiece illegally and that he didn't even break even on the DVD.

80,000 x $30 = $2,400,000

If you like motocross movies then people like Wes are the wrong people to steal from. There's no huge conglomerate backing his projects or paying him a salary and without funds there will be no more movies. It's the same reason video game companies shifted away from PCs and toward consoles.

Always remember that there's an overworked and underpaid professional motocross fan out there behind everything you consume online, for free, and then complain about. Whether it's a website, photo gallery, editorial or video, a real human being made it happen.

Read Wes's blog post and go buy some DVDs.

http://www.vurbmoto.com/blogs/1874/am-i-wrong-my-own-great-debate/
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alphado
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11/17/2010 1:02pm
I bought a copy, Wes is a good guy.
zookrider62!
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11/17/2010 1:37pm
that is a bummer, a shame moto people would steal from there own
WhipMeister
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11/17/2010 1:45pm
Yep. Pay the ticket. It's not much (less than your entry on Sunday in most cases) and it advances the sport.

Along those lines, Moto 2 kicks ass. motoxcinema.com
Moto East Mag
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Arlington, VA, USA
11/17/2010 1:52pm
If I were him I would flood the torrent sites with fake torrents called "Moto 2 the movie." But it's really "Winner Take All."

That's what a lot of bands do when they put out a new album. After you spend time downloading a couple fakes, it's easier to just go buy it.

The Shop

Torco1
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11/17/2010 2:02pm
If I were him I would flood the torrent sites with fake torrents called "Moto 2 the movie." But it's really "Winner Take All." That's what...
If I were him I would flood the torrent sites with fake torrents called "Moto 2 the movie." But it's really "Winner Take All."

That's what a lot of bands do when they put out a new album. After you spend time downloading a couple fakes, it's easier to just go buy it.
That's a good idea, but I wouldn't be nice enough to even give them Winners Take All. I'd find something really good to put on there to teach them a lesson.
hurtssogood
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11/17/2010 2:19pm
This is a nice marketing ploy.......everyone feels sorry for him and buys a copy.......except me. Not legally or illegally.
swizcore
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11/17/2010 2:35pm
This is a nice marketing ploy.......everyone feels sorry for him and buys a copy.......except me. Not legally or illegally.
That's a bullshit accusation.
11/17/2010 2:38pm
This is a nice marketing ploy.......everyone feels sorry for him and buys a copy.......except me. Not legally or illegally.
Yea good one. I could care less if I sell another copy. I'm not actively trying to push anything. I'm just fed up with it and wanted to say something. I've wanted to for a year now, and the threads pushed me over the top.

I'm just trying to make people aware of the "other side of the fence". Granted I'm friends with Taylor, who produced Moto 2, I'm in no other way whatsoever affiliated with motoxcinema.com
JKurz
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Keller, TX, USA
11/17/2010 2:40pm
Who buys anything these dayz.........LOL.......... Just joking.....
11/17/2010 2:42pm
This is a nice marketing ploy.......everyone feels sorry for him and buys a copy.......except me. Not legally or illegally.
Very classless remark. Wes is a good guy and does incredible work. I hope you don't let this get you down and continue banging out more awesome flicks.
JACK_Schit
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una, AZ
11/17/2010 2:48pm
This is a nice marketing ploy.......everyone feels sorry for him and buys a copy.......except me. Not legally or illegally.
Now their is a man of objectivity.....
JACK_Schit
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11/17/2010 2:50pm
Sooo, what about the Vital MX Hall of Torrents?
hurtssogood
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11/17/2010 2:50pm
This is a nice marketing ploy.......everyone feels sorry for him and buys a copy.......except me. Not legally or illegally.
Very classless remark. Wes is a good guy and does incredible work. I hope you don't let this get you down and continue banging out more...
Very classless remark. Wes is a good guy and does incredible work. I hope you don't let this get you down and continue banging out more awesome flicks.
I don't doubt that it is good work, my point is that I personally do not waste my hard earned money on videos......of any kind.

I am entitled to my opinion, which it looks like a marketing ploy.......and I could be wrong!
kburgie
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11/17/2010 2:54pm
JACK_Schit wrote:
Sooo, what about the Vital MX Hall of Torrents?
This is at the top of the torrents page:

The intent of this section is for people who might have missed a race or moto-related feature on TV. It's not for people to rip off (or put in a request for) the latest movie releases.

If you want a new DVD? Go buy it. Support the people who put in hard work to create the content you enjoy.
Jabjr222
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11/17/2010 3:01pm
It's a difficult time now for anyone producing anything that can be traded digitally. There has to be a massive paradigm shift and one has to assume their work will be traded openly through torrents. The trick is to give them something beyond a digital file and increase the value of the physical product.

My personal belief is that music, digitally speaking, should be seen simply as a marketing cost to promote the bands merch and concerts. There is no hope of ever ending piracy. And people will always take something for free rather than paying for it. I think this has to be the business plan in the music industry.

Films though, I really am conflicted because you don't have as much merchandising opportunities (with some exceptions for toys related to kids flicks) or appearances (not in the same sense as concerts) to make money from. Same game though, increase the value of the physical product or figure out another way to make money (advertising through product placement?) because no matter how many they prosecute, piracy is the new norm.
CamP
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11/17/2010 3:10pm
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your movie for $10?
RuFfRyDaH
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Halle, DE
11/17/2010 3:13pm
Well I'm still waiting to get moto 2 ....shit ain't available. I don't get why it isn't available on iTunes...

I could buy pings DVD real easy, have to say

Anyway, I would really like to see more stuff on iTunes internationally....because DVDs are outdated and hard to freaking get in europe
noob
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11/17/2010 3:40pm
CamP wrote:
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your...
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your movie for $10?
Epic comes in a rad hardcover booklet/case that looks pretty on my bookshelf. I play the DVD regularly on my computer at work for the soundtrack and to catch peripheral moto action.

It's really fucking good, folks. Buy a copy! The Eli Tomac segment alone is worth $30
11/17/2010 3:50pm
CamP wrote:
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your...
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your movie for $10?
Moto movies are expensive. Regular movies are never more then $20 when they are released. Sometimes even $15 on sale after a couple weeks. Why can't they sell Moto movies in stores? I'm sure that would up sales. If not why not do like a shirt and a movie for $35 or some kind of deal?
burnside
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11/17/2010 3:57pm
Surprises me you can openly find the torrents on this site, those threads should be deleted before the guys worry about the latest 'jlaw on crack' threads.

Wes is fighting a losing battle though. No one gives a shit and will continue to bootleg. God knows how the TGO videos can continue unless they keep working with Fuel TV.. Does anyone know if they are making a season 2 this year?

CamP
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11/17/2010 3:59pm
noob wrote:
Epic comes in a rad hardcover booklet/case that looks pretty on my bookshelf. I play the DVD regularly on my computer at work for the soundtrack...
Epic comes in a rad hardcover booklet/case that looks pretty on my bookshelf. I play the DVD regularly on my computer at work for the soundtrack and to catch peripheral moto action.

It's really fucking good, folks. Buy a copy! The Eli Tomac segment alone is worth $30
I've never seen the movie, but no movie is worth $30 to me. I don't care about fancy cases. If mx movies cost $10 per download, I would go for it and I'm sure 1000's of others would too.
burnside
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11/17/2010 4:02pm
CamP wrote:
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your...
This makes me wonder about the conventional $30 DVD business model. Would you make more money with less overhead if you sold internet downloads of your movie for $10?
mxrider225 wrote:
Moto movies are expensive. Regular movies are never more then $20 when they are released. Sometimes even $15 on sale after a couple weeks. Why can't...
Moto movies are expensive. Regular movies are never more then $20 when they are released. Sometimes even $15 on sale after a couple weeks. Why can't they sell Moto movies in stores? I'm sure that would up sales. If not why not do like a shirt and a movie for $35 or some kind of deal?
CamP is right. Producers have to look into other forms of distribution.

Warp Films (a UK film distro) have some pretty cool options, cheap downloads for lower quality, more expensive for higher quality, then obviously the full DVD.

http://www.warpfilmstore.com/pages/Trash-Humpers_1.aspx?pageid=102

Bootlegging sucks but its not going anywhere. Think cheap downloads is possibly the only way to claw back a piece of that lost revenue.
kburgie
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11/17/2010 4:08pm
burnside wrote:
Surprises me you can openly find the torrents on this site, those threads should be deleted before the guys worry about the latest 'jlaw on crack'...
Surprises me you can openly find the torrents on this site, those threads should be deleted before the guys worry about the latest 'jlaw on crack' threads.

Wes is fighting a losing battle though. No one gives a shit and will continue to bootleg. God knows how the TGO videos can continue unless they keep working with Fuel TV.. Does anyone know if they are making a season 2 this year?

There's a new season of The Moto: Inside The Outdoors starting in early March 2011.
lafawnduh
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USA
11/17/2010 4:43pm
JACK_Schit wrote:
Sooo, what about the Vital MX Hall of Torrents?
kburgie wrote:
This is at the top of the torrents page: [b]The intent of this section is for people who might have missed a race or moto-related feature...
This is at the top of the torrents page:

The intent of this section is for people who might have missed a race or moto-related feature on TV. It's not for people to rip off (or put in a request for) the latest movie releases.

If you want a new DVD? Go buy it. Support the people who put in hard work to create the content you enjoy.
Saying it, doesn't make it true... Face it, it's there so people can see shit without paying for it.. Spin it how you like but in reality, very few are going to pay for something they can get for free... Section shouldn't exist..
mxb2
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11/17/2010 4:47pm
So your saying the Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson DVD I got on the corner was illegal LOL!
Torco1
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11/17/2010 4:52pm
mxb2 wrote:
So your saying the Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson DVD I got on the corner was illegal LOL!
Can I borrow that for a few days?
11/17/2010 4:56pm
burnside wrote:
Surprises me you can openly find the torrents on this site, those threads should be deleted before the guys worry about the latest 'jlaw on crack'...
Surprises me you can openly find the torrents on this site, those threads should be deleted before the guys worry about the latest 'jlaw on crack' threads.

Wes is fighting a losing battle though. No one gives a shit and will continue to bootleg. God knows how the TGO videos can continue unless they keep working with Fuel TV.. Does anyone know if they are making a season 2 this year?

Oh believe me, I know it's a losing battle. But by stating my opinion to the huge audience we have, it may sway 5-10% of people to do the right thing and support the people who create this content.

As for pricing, motocross is a niche market. A good DVD may sell 10-15K units to a distributor at a fraction of the price, so at best you're MAYBE going to make 150K if you happen to be lucky enough to unload that many, which isn't likely. Then take into account how much you spent. Your net profit would isn't even worth mentioning.

So some moto videographer has to risk spending 100K on a movie, sell it for 10$ online and hope atleast 10K people buy it online. I know the numbers for some really big actions sports stuff, and no one is pushing that. Is it part of a potential model? Sure, but again it's quite risky. On top of that, you still have every 15 year old kid in the world downloading it, and probably plenty of others too, just like the guy on the forum earlier who "earns enough money to go have a fancy house and go on holiday whenever".

Plus, there's an entire other issue of music rights. Digital licenses are totally different than ones you get for DVD's, and different than the one for TV. If you want to be able to put a song across all platforms, you're looking at 20-30K per song for a major label, and likely 5-10K$ for an independent. So you resort to local band music, and then every single person that buys it complains.

This whole debate probably is pointless. I was just starting the view from my side of the fence. There aren't too, too many people in my shoes, but it needed to be said.

mxb2
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11/17/2010 4:58pm
mxb2 wrote:
So your saying the Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson DVD I got on the corner was illegal LOL!
Torco1 wrote:
Can I borrow that for a few days?
Yea you can if you promise not to resell any copies !
GuyB
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11/17/2010 4:58pm
burnside wrote:
Surprises me you can openly find the torrents on this site, those threads should be deleted before the guys worry about the latest 'jlaw on crack'...
Surprises me you can openly find the torrents on this site, those threads should be deleted before the guys worry about the latest 'jlaw on crack' threads.

Wes is fighting a losing battle though. No one gives a shit and will continue to bootleg. God knows how the TGO videos can continue unless they keep working with Fuel TV.. Does anyone know if they are making a season 2 this year?

As previously mentioned in this thread, the intent of the Hall of Torrents is for TV shows that people may have missed, or for servicemen (and women) overseas who can't see the races any other way...things like that. It's not as a place to put in requests for the latest commercial titles because you're too cheap to buy one.

Like the non-moto section, I rarely venture into the Hall of Torrents, and missed those links and requests.

I emailed back and forth with both Wes and Taylor Congdon today. I can appreciate the time, effort and expense that it takes to make a full-length feature film, and I'm sorry our site was misused in that way.

If you have trouble figuring out that other than the scale of the crime that it's really no different than going out and stealing someone's bike (and I think we'd all agree that bike thieves are scum), then you're completely missing the point.
johansen
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MG
11/18/2010 2:47am
People are lazy. Why would you want to make an order, wait for the shipping and then watch it when you can download and watch it in 5 minutes? Take freecaster as an example, I pay for the high quality stream because thats the easiest way even though I probably could've downloaded it instead. So if Wes want's to make any money he need to offer a hd stream to an affordable price.

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