Whiskey Throttle Euro 450 shootout

OwenJakes
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10/27/2025 8:24pm

Genuinely curious for some of you that say any 450 is down on power - please explain what you mean. 

Do you not like to shift? Does down on power man “didn’t lug 3rd the entire lap”? I use 1-4 gears on my RMZ450 and this bike is genuinely a rocket. It’s uncomfortably fast. Do you guys only use the first 40% of the throttle? I’m honestly confused how vet riders complain about low power 450’s and top pros want them calmed down. Plz explain. 

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mx_563
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10/27/2025 11:19pm

Hughes and LaPaglia collaborating on a bike shootout....that made me giggle. 

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Tyler D
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10/27/2025 11:58pm
moto111 wrote:
This shootout is not balanced, because the Jap bikes had a 50% chance of getting through, but all the Euro bikes had a 33% chance...

This shootout is not balanced, because the Jap bikes had a 50% chance of getting through, but all the Euro bikes had a 33% chance ? Who is to say the the 3rd Euro bike is not better than the 2nd Jap Bike ?

lmao wow. how did he keep a straight face thru all that. 

Tyler D
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10/28/2025 12:01am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2025 12:02am

ducati seems like a very non-consumer-friendly company with a very shareholder-first mentality. as cool as it is theyre in the sport, i would personally steer clear for awhile until they realize they cant bend over  moto guys like they do street squids

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The Shop

yak651
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10/28/2025 5:42am
OwenJakes wrote:
Genuinely curious for some of you that say any 450 is down on power - please explain what you mean. Do you not like to shift? Does...

Genuinely curious for some of you that say any 450 is down on power - please explain what you mean. 

Do you not like to shift? Does down on power man “didn’t lug 3rd the entire lap”? I use 1-4 gears on my RMZ450 and this bike is genuinely a rocket. It’s uncomfortably fast. Do you guys only use the first 40% of the throttle? I’m honestly confused how vet riders complain about low power 450’s and top pros want them calmed down. Plz explain. 

Exactly…like Steve telling Phil he’s WFO up Mt St Helens and is like 20% throttle. These guys saying a 450 slow are full of 💩, maybe change the throttle cam and twist that wrist…

dang472
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10/28/2025 5:56am

Of course all available 450s are fast enough for every non professional racer. I’d also put money on Carson Brown beating most of us here on the YZ65 he just posted riding. 
When comparing a bike or mod I can also say one bike can pull third through this particular corner better than another. I can say one bike handles slap down OJs better or one revs longer and doesn’t need to be shifted on my local track. These are all reasons to spend your money on one bike over another. You can’t lose the nuance just because every 450 has enough HP.

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3strokemx
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10/28/2025 5:59am
OwenJakes wrote:
Genuinely curious for some of you that say any 450 is down on power - please explain what you mean. Do you not like to shift? Does...

Genuinely curious for some of you that say any 450 is down on power - please explain what you mean. 

Do you not like to shift? Does down on power man “didn’t lug 3rd the entire lap”? I use 1-4 gears on my RMZ450 and this bike is genuinely a rocket. It’s uncomfortably fast. Do you guys only use the first 40% of the throttle? I’m honestly confused how vet riders complain about low power 450’s and top pros want them calmed down. Plz explain. 

I'm the only one in this thread that said a 450 felt down on power.  Specifically the Beta 450.

Imagine a 125 that goes 35mph in 1st gear, it's fast but it will also feel down on power most of the time.

The Beta didn't have great torque for pulling out of corners, took a second to wind up to get into the meat of the power in each gear. 
It doesn't have good overrev, so riding down a gear wasn't working either. 
 I felt it made the bike difficult to steer with the throttle and recover if I lost momentum, and put the bike inbetween gears for hopping bumps or jumps out of corners.        I compensated with more clutch

After a few rides, I changed from the stock 13/49 to 12/52.  Seems like a huge change but it fits this bike really well. Plenty of torque in corners now and still plenty of length in the gears.
No longer concerned about the Beta's power, it had good power but was just in the wrong spot,  loving this bike now.



 

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mx691
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10/28/2025 6:36am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2025 6:41am
mx691 wrote:
A proper test should allow $500-1000 in mods absolutely needed per bike. Revalving, springs, gearing or proper tires etc.Like a slip-on was needed (to make a...

A proper test should allow $500-1000 in mods absolutely needed per bike. Revalving, springs, gearing or proper tires etc.
Like a slip-on was needed (to make a 2008 shootout fair for a us spec 2008 YZF 450… ) if anyone remembers

Edited!

Timo wrote:

Why would you want an old 4 wheeler exhaust for a modern bike?

Well… a 2008 YZ450f ”motocross bike” then… everybody understood my point… almost…

 

3strokemx
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10/28/2025 6:37am
wwdiii wrote:
I’m surprised the Beta sucked hind tit like it did.  I’ve never been on a 450 RX.  But my 300 RX is solid and it gets...

I’m surprised the Beta sucked hind tit like it did.  I’ve never been on a 450 RX.  But my 300 RX is solid and it gets around the track good.  In fact it does everything pretty good.  I have a 23 Honda with 23.5 degree Luxon triple clamps sprung for my weight.  Also a 24 KX450 sprung for my weight to compare.  My 300 RX is the best of the bunch as far as handling.  To me it turns in just as good as my Honda.  I thought the 300 RX frame and 450 RX frames were pretty much the same other than sub frame.  My 300 handled just fine off the show room floor even with a to light for my weight rear spring.

Most bikes with KYB typically do pretty good, or at least I thought so.  I’d take KYB over air in the front.  Kinda hard to believe Beta screwed up the valving that much to make the bike as out of balance as test seems to suggest.  

I’ve had a couple of fast guys ride my 2 stroke Beta and both guys couldn’t believe how it would turn and how stable straight line in the rough.  Maybe the 450 RX is a different animal all together.  I came close to buying one but got a deal on a green bike, which I’m glad I did.

 

Motovet45 wrote:
wwdiii,  I had a 23 Crf450 with the 23.5 offset clamps and I also have a 25 Beta 300RX that I just recently bought to replace...

wwdiii,  I had a 23 Crf450 with the 23.5 offset clamps and I also have a 25 Beta 300RX that I just recently bought to replace the CRF. The Beta is an amazing bike and a lot of fun, it handles extremely well, so much so that I went out and bought a leftover 24 450RX to race and keep the 300 for fun. I had my first ride at Honolulu Hills here in California today and felt comfortable immediately, more comfortable than I ever felt on the Honda, even my riding buddies were commenting that I rode it much better. I will say I hated the pegs, the shifter felt like it was sized for someone with a size 6 boot and some corners I felt I was using the clutch more than I expected. The 450RX is stable, handles great, felt very neutral in the air and the stock suspension felt good for just setting sag, checking to ensure all the clickers were at the “comfort “ setting on Beta’s website. I’m 57, 210-215lbs, finished 4th at the OTHG national at Glen Helen in the 52+ novice class so I might fit your old, fat, vet slow guy. The bike is not as bad as they make it out to be in that video but I’m no pro.


Clarence 

I couldn't believe how bad the pegs were, honestly horrific.
I've heard some guys are using a Honda shifter for a little more length, but after getting new pegs and raising the shifter a little I haven't noticed it, which is a good thing.

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mx691
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10/28/2025 6:48am
mx691 wrote:
A proper test should allow $500-1000 in mods absolutely needed per bike. Revalving, springs, gearing or proper tires etc.Like a slip-on was needed (to make a...

A proper test should allow $500-1000 in mods absolutely needed per bike. Revalving, springs, gearing or proper tires etc.
Like a slip-on was needed (to make a 2008 shootout fair for a us spec 2008 YZF 450… ) if anyone remembers

Edited!

Flatliner wrote:

Valving and springs for who?  You can have a 220lb and 140 lb rider testing on the same day, especially with 450's.

Just choose even weighted testriders for the actual test.

Should they make a separate test for fat or really short/tall people?

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Saz
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10/28/2025 6:52am

Also where power sits depends on the rider too. Some people like high revving 450s with the powwr at the top, others like it straight off the bottom, then we got the smooth linear power guys and the aggressive hit guys. Then throw in size, age, location. 

Sometimes, I think we do a bit of injustice to the local non pro rider sometimes. A lot of us are a lot more perceptive and sensitive to power, chassis, suspension and how it affects the bike more than we give ourselves credit for. Or maybe even the riders themselves not giving themselves credit for their own abilities. We may not be pros or at pro level but it doesnt discount our abilities just because we aren't Lawrence, Tomac, or Roczen.

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OwenJakes
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10/28/2025 7:45am
OwenJakes wrote:
Genuinely curious for some of you that say any 450 is down on power - please explain what you mean. Do you not like to shift? Does...

Genuinely curious for some of you that say any 450 is down on power - please explain what you mean. 

Do you not like to shift? Does down on power man “didn’t lug 3rd the entire lap”? I use 1-4 gears on my RMZ450 and this bike is genuinely a rocket. It’s uncomfortably fast. Do you guys only use the first 40% of the throttle? I’m honestly confused how vet riders complain about low power 450’s and top pros want them calmed down. Plz explain. 

3strokemx wrote:
I'm the only one in this thread that said a 450 felt down on power.  Specifically the Beta 450.Imagine a 125 that goes 35mph in 1st...

I'm the only one in this thread that said a 450 felt down on power.  Specifically the Beta 450.

Imagine a 125 that goes 35mph in 1st gear, it's fast but it will also feel down on power most of the time.

The Beta didn't have great torque for pulling out of corners, took a second to wind up to get into the meat of the power in each gear. 
It doesn't have good overrev, so riding down a gear wasn't working either. 
 I felt it made the bike difficult to steer with the throttle and recover if I lost momentum, and put the bike inbetween gears for hopping bumps or jumps out of corners.        I compensated with more clutch

After a few rides, I changed from the stock 13/49 to 12/52.  Seems like a huge change but it fits this bike really well. Plenty of torque in corners now and still plenty of length in the gears.
No longer concerned about the Beta's power, it had good power but was just in the wrong spot,  loving this bike now.



 

That makes alot of sense. I see what you mean now. I do hear that alot in shootout videos too - "down on power". 

I just always get confused because since getting onto a 450 power is literally a non-issue. If i want more, I twist more, and the bike just goes its pretty crazy honestly lol.

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Flatliner
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10/28/2025 11:13am
mx691 wrote:
A proper test should allow $500-1000 in mods absolutely needed per bike. Revalving, springs, gearing or proper tires etc.Like a slip-on was needed (to make a...

A proper test should allow $500-1000 in mods absolutely needed per bike. Revalving, springs, gearing or proper tires etc.
Like a slip-on was needed (to make a 2008 shootout fair for a us spec 2008 YZF 450… ) if anyone remembers

Edited!

Flatliner wrote:

Valving and springs for who?  You can have a 220lb and 140 lb rider testing on the same day, especially with 450's.

mx691 wrote:

Just choose even weighted testriders for the actual test.

Should they make a separate test for fat or really short/tall people?

So now you want to alienate a huge portion of the buying public?   I'm sure the 180lb only shootout with valving and springs will be a big hit.

Its a general test, always has been that way. Meant to be a baseline for the vast majority of riders.

OwenJakes
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10/28/2025 11:37am
Flatliner wrote:

Valving and springs for who?  You can have a 220lb and 140 lb rider testing on the same day, especially with 450's.

mx691 wrote:

Just choose even weighted testriders for the actual test.

Should they make a separate test for fat or really short/tall people?

Flatliner wrote:
So now you want to alienate a huge portion of the buying public?   I'm sure the 180lb only shootout with valving and springs will be...

So now you want to alienate a huge portion of the buying public?   I'm sure the 180lb only shootout with valving and springs will be a big hit.

Its a general test, always has been that way. Meant to be a baseline for the vast majority of riders.

I think the best approach would be for one or two riders to have $1,000 to spend on all the bikes as they see fit.

So, first, ride and rank the bikes in the major test. Phase two includes allowing one or two riders to modify the bikes to accommodate for their weaknesses up to $1,000. That one (maybe two) rider(s) now conduct the shootout again and rank the bikes based on their new performance upgrades. Ideally you would just want to do this with one rider but two would be neat to see.

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Flatliner
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10/28/2025 12:33pm
OwenJakes wrote:
I think the best approach would be for one or two riders to have $1,000 to spend on all the bikes as they see fit.So, first...

I think the best approach would be for one or two riders to have $1,000 to spend on all the bikes as they see fit.

So, first, ride and rank the bikes in the major test. Phase two includes allowing one or two riders to modify the bikes to accommodate for their weaknesses up to $1,000. That one (maybe two) rider(s) now conduct the shootout again and rank the bikes based on their new performance upgrades. Ideally you would just want to do this with one rider but two would be neat to see.

That's reasonable.  I wonder if the manufacturers would be on board to provide bikes with that kind of thing.

mx691
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10/28/2025 12:42pm
Flatliner wrote:

Valving and springs for who?  You can have a 220lb and 140 lb rider testing on the same day, especially with 450's.

mx691 wrote:

Just choose even weighted testriders for the actual test.

Should they make a separate test for fat or really short/tall people?

Flatliner wrote:
So now you want to alienate a huge portion of the buying public?   I'm sure the 180lb only shootout with valving and springs will be...

So now you want to alienate a huge portion of the buying public?   I'm sure the 180lb only shootout with valving and springs will be a big hit.

Its a general test, always has been that way. Meant to be a baseline for the vast majority of riders.

Absolutely not! Why does some people really want to misunderstand!

Test could be conducted with even weighted riders for ease of work, bigger/fatter riders still have to change springs/revalve. If a tested bike has a obvious flaw, use $500-1000 to fix it and the test will be fair. 

mx691
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10/28/2025 12:47pm
OwenJakes wrote:
I think the best approach would be for one or two riders to have $1,000 to spend on all the bikes as they see fit.So, first...

I think the best approach would be for one or two riders to have $1,000 to spend on all the bikes as they see fit.

So, first, ride and rank the bikes in the major test. Phase two includes allowing one or two riders to modify the bikes to accommodate for their weaknesses up to $1,000. That one (maybe two) rider(s) now conduct the shootout again and rank the bikes based on their new performance upgrades. Ideally you would just want to do this with one rider but two would be neat to see.

Exactly what i meant!

1
OwenJakes
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10/28/2025 8:45pm

Yo @ML512 have you ever done like a light mod bike shootout?

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ML512
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10/28/2025 8:52pm
OwenJakes wrote:

Yo @ML512 have you ever done like a light mod bike shootout?

No. Two main reasons. Usually can’t have all the bikes long enough. Secondly, not a clear route of what the mods would be and what would be fair. Everyone says suspension revalves but who in the shootout is the bike setup for, the heavy guys or the light guys? The fast guys of the slow guys?

1
Johnny Oz
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10/29/2025 2:04am

Should have had the KOVE in the Asian group test, then have a laptime shootout between the last placed, and 1st placed.

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