LL class structure

Anything negative about LL's is not going to be an unpopular opinion. The forum has been dominated this week by people nit-picking the shit out it. 

I think the structure of LL is similar to Little League world series. I think it's great for kids not trying to go to the next level. Its something fun and allows the kids to see where they stack up. That said, to place so much emphasis on LL for the next big thing has been an oversight...it's 1 track.

For the top of the top, the next AC, Webb, Deegan, etc the combined structure is better. I've not paid too much attention to the combines lately, but a 5-7 race series on pro tracks against the best kids 15-18 yrs old that aren't pro yet is how we should be running the combines. If that's how they do it now then good on them.

Going back to the comparison to Little League World Series...it's great if your team wins when you are 12. But how many of those kids make it to college? Now how many to the pros?

Point being there are other means to get to the next level besides solely going through Williamsport at 12 years old. 

It doesn't affect my life one bit, so I just sit back and enjoy the racing. I don't care about the C classes, or that the finish line is in a wierd spot, or that one guy rode his bike into a tree, or that some imbecile with a youtube account was banned, or that the stream buffers, or that the TV crew is a little rough around the edges, or the weather conditions, or that there are a lot of ruts, or that there are former pros in the vet classes, or that the bibs are ugly, or . . .

There are a few here that are in every thread complaining and acting like LL's is somehow taking money out of their pockets or ruining their interneting experience. I guaranty those people have never been to LL's and have no intention of ever trying to go to LL's, they just like to bitch and sap the fun out of the forum.

Without nit-picking and with an eye toward fixing some of the issues you’re addressing…

ANYONE that wins (potentially including top 3) an LL’s regional in the C class…? 

Congratulations! You are now a B rider.

Anyone that goes to LL’s as C competitor:

Congratulations! You are now a B rider.

Honestly, I think the same thing needs to be applied to the B class nowadays. 

When we’ve got “B” & “C” riders throwing down lap times that are competitive with the fastest riders in the class above them? Well…we all know what I’m talking about. This “not moving up…yet” game has become a pathetic shell game…and most of the blame lies on the riders/parents and, yes, even the sponsors that not only allow it…they seem to manage it…promote it…they “run the game”, if you will. 

As I recall, there was a rule somewhere along these lines years ago…where people were actually automatically “moved up”…? 

Without the C class when are we supposed to go back to the rig to eat and refill our beverages? lol

I may be wrong but I believe if you've ever qualified for LL's in any class, even micro's, you are no longer eligible for C class. So at least for LL's, your proposals are already in place.

You are correct. 

Once you understand that the entire purpose of the area, regional, and national Loretta's races are about stuffing as much money into the MXSports coffers as possible while giving the illusion that riders are actually in the correct class, that there is an ironclad advancement mechanism, and that all the rules are always administered fairly...then you'll sleep better at night.🤣

I guess it's better than giving the same money to Disney during a weeklong vacation for social engineering, though.  So there's always that.

in general, every promoter is there for money and either dont care about sandbaggers or dont have enough people bothered by it to change it. (ie enough people keep paying)

one local series promoter throws a big prize series where they get around 15-20k worth of prizes, like tires, helmets, VP gas, pro purses etc. Some legit series end prizes. and one year I tried it and noted the guy winning the C class, had won the whole thing the year before. multiple wins and top series prizes. and thats great, but said rider was doing the same class again. made mention to the promoter and got a very corporate answer theyd look into it but no change. 

the only organization ive witnessed that actually attempts to even out the fields and move people up is the Local OTHG groups. 

They make everyone joining 'try-out' wearing a safety vest during the race in their chosen class and Officials take notes. and as the season goes on they make a point to move people as needed. 

According to most MX racers if someone is faster than you then they are a sandbagger. 🤣🤣

Loretta Lynns has always been a stepping stone for everyone all the way from 50cc PW50s to 50+ vets to Pro AMA racers.

They need to add a 60+ and 65+ class

"B" and "C" classes make sense for local racing, but make no sense for a National level. Even without sandbagging, winning a C Class National Championship just means you were the best rider to not sign up for the B or A class. It seemed only natural that riders would use it as an excuse to avoid racing classes they could still qualify for, but not win.

This is a serious problem for kids that want to go pro because they're racing easier classes that hinder their ability to delevope and overcome adversity, and those problems will be exponentially harder once they go pro.

Tell that to Jeremy McGrath

Seems the Kids that have a goal of pro are already at facilities and racibg at LL in 65/85/ superminis, and than going straight to 250B.

The C class seems to be riders starting to race in their early teens. I think very few who raced the C class actually make it back to LL.

Locally the kids that made it, never went back, probably cause they couldnt afford training at a facility. Sort of a joke that 65cc riders are thanking thier trainers, but thats another thread

As an adult I’m firmly in the camp LL is a ridiculously overpriced, overrated, money grab but as a 16 yr old kid he had fun with all his buddies that made it, made memories that we’ll have forever as a family, and spent the last week as close as he’ll ever get to feeling like a pro rider. Yeah he wished he would’ve done better but until you’ve seen how rough the track gets and how good the competition is, even C class is gnarly. 

Congrats to you’re kid, just being on the gate there is an accomplishment. Now his confidence will soar, start saving for next year.

You make those memories!  You can make more money but the memories, like you said will be there forever. Congrats on getting there. 

I agree with the concept of your statement, but the LLWS does not have the best players.  All of the good players play travel ball and they are ineligible to play Little League.  (Sometimes they don't get caught though...). A team from Boerne, TX in 2024 made it to the LLWS and they divided up a select team, all went to play little league locally, and when they picked the team for the tournament they picked all of the select team kids.  That team got 4th that year, and when they played select here locally, my son's team beat them twice.  My son's team is just pretty good - plays Majors - but when we go to the big tournaments we get smoked.

If we don’t care about the C class why do we care so much about the C class?🤣

My point is that there is a lot of hype around Little League World Series and it's cool to watch, but it's not the end-all, be-all for baseball. Also, the structure is somewhat similar between Loretta's and Little League with how you do different races to qualify vs different tournaments (regions) to qualify for Little League.

I realize there are other baseball leagues, travel ball etc. My brother played on 2 teams that represented the East coast at the Pony World Series when he was 10 and 12.  It was a cool experience, and we had a blast watching them play. They didn't lose a game until they got to the World Series, but when they got to the World Series, I believe they only won 1 of their 3 games the two times they went. None of those kids went pro. I think only 2 went on to play college ball (D II and D III) and honestly, they weren't the best players when they were 10 and 12, those 2 just stuck with it longer than the others. Most of the other kids didn't even play high school baseball, they played other sports instead, including my brother.

If you make Loretta’s you can never race C class again and if you top 5( I think) in any b class you have to move up. They have rules in place to force people up. I can’t stand the crying sandbag people. 

Sorry, i'm not a fan of timed qualifying.     Even in the pro ranks I think timed qualifying is rediculous.    The track changes so much.   Let them race for it.