The 350 (yes, again)

Billy Jack
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Billy Jack 9/26/2010 9:26am
9/26/2010 9:26am
dlowe102 wrote:
Its not illegal for it to be a 450 with 350 stickers on it...
Billy Jack wrote:
No one is saying it's illegal, they are saying it's not a 350.
Slow wrote:
So what size is it?
Probably a 125.
Slow
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Slow 9/26/2010 9:35am
9/26/2010 9:35am
Billy Jack wrote:
No one is saying it's illegal, they are saying it's not a 350.
Slow wrote:
So what size is it?
Billy Jack wrote:
Probably a 125.
Did they bore and stroke the 350 engine? Or did they shoehorn in one of the Dakkar engines in the frame? Come on Billy you know everything. Give us the details.
Billy Jack
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Billy Jack 9/26/2010 9:37am
9/26/2010 9:37am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2010 9:38am
Slow wrote:
So what size is it?
Billy Jack wrote:
Probably a 125.
Slow wrote:
Did they bore and stroke the 350 engine? Or did they shoehorn in one of the Dakkar engines in the frame? Come on Billy you know...
Did they bore and stroke the 350 engine? Or did they shoehorn in one of the Dakkar engines in the frame? Come on Billy you know everything. Give us the details.
If it walks like a duck....

Or, in more technical terms, you could simply say it's an inference to the best explanation.
adamdf
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adamdf 9/26/2010 9:43am
9/26/2010 9:43am
Even if it is a 390, or a 400, whatever...its legal..it might be shady marketing on KTM's part but he's definitely not cheating

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Billy Jack
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Billy Jack 9/26/2010 9:46am
9/26/2010 9:46am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2010 9:47am
adamdf wrote:
Even if it is a 390, or a 400, whatever...its legal..it might be shady marketing on KTM's part but he's definitely not cheating
There is no way he could cheat, but if it's not a 350, then KTM ought to be ashamed. And let's face it, all that matters to corporations is the bottom dollar...what better way to make some $ than by having a 350 win. I keep going back to holeshot king, Alessi, and then comparing AC's starts on an uphill no less.
adamdf
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adamdf 9/26/2010 9:55am
9/26/2010 9:55am
adamdf wrote:
Even if it is a 390, or a 400, whatever...its legal..it might be shady marketing on KTM's part but he's definitely not cheating
Billy Jack wrote:
There is no way he could cheat, but if it's not a 350, then KTM ought to be ashamed. And let's face it, all that matters...
There is no way he could cheat, but if it's not a 350, then KTM ought to be ashamed. And let's face it, all that matters to corporations is the bottom dollar...what better way to make some $ than by having a 350 win. I keep going back to holeshot king, Alessi, and then comparing AC's starts on an uphill no less.
i somewhat i agree with you.....but i am also of the opinion thats its definitely not a 450 either, i say the most is 400....but anything beyond that i think they would be loosing the "gyroscopic advantage" the 350 has over 450s and at that point he could as well ride a 450, that's just what i think, may not be the case at all either..

If you watch him, he definitely gets that thing turned and thrown around easier than the 450s, so something isnt right...if that really is a 450, he is a freakin monster for throwing it around and snagging the inside lines the way he does
Slow
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Slow 9/26/2010 9:59am
9/26/2010 9:59am
I agree with Adam.
ab5772
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ab5772 9/26/2010 10:05am
9/26/2010 10:05am
Alex wrote:
So with Villopotos bike being 200cc less on a start straight like a plowed field thats perfectly normal for him to holeshot? just wondering BillyJack. what...
So with Villopotos bike being 200cc less on a start straight like a plowed field thats perfectly normal for him to holeshot? just wondering BillyJack. what displacement would you guesstimate Ryans bike was that day?
Billy Jack wrote:
had it been an UPHILL start at HIGH ALTITUDE, I would have guessed it was not a 250. Budds Creek start straight: Flat. Actually, I think...
had it been an UPHILL start at HIGH ALTITUDE, I would have guessed it was not a 250. Budds Creek start straight: Flat.

Actually, I think it may even slope slightly down.

Compare that to a high altitude, uphill start and then put two and two together.
These guys have a good analysis of the Thunder Valley start and Budd's start...250 vs 450. Start listening around the 5 minute mark.

It's a good pre-show analysis. I rather enjoyed it.
couchdriver412 9/26/2010 10:15am
9/26/2010 10:15am
Look people AC is riding a 649cc dirtcicle.
CamP
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CamP 9/26/2010 10:18am
9/26/2010 10:18am
Ozzy wrote:
1stly, it's FIM rules, not AMA. & to quote : "No one is saying it's illegal, they are saying it's not a 350." That's what I've...
1stly, it's FIM rules, not AMA.

& to quote :

"No one is saying it's illegal, they are saying it's not a 350."

That's what I've been thinking since our USGP, and that's what I'm hearing as well.

A 450 it isn't.

That's for certain.

But a 350 as advertised?

Personally, I think not............
I will say this, regardless of it's displacement, as certainly smaller it definitely is, TC is riding the wheels of it, & is truely 1 FAST SOB!!!

Dave O. Wink
Pffftt, what do you know?

I hear KTM is on the verge of building a perpetual motion engine that's going to render the old gas engines obsolete. It will never run out of gas!
JackLHyde
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JackLHyde 9/26/2010 10:51am
9/26/2010 10:51am
Goddammit would somebody please protest that bike so we all know what it is? I can't believe with all the whiners, nobody has had enough nuts to go to the race officials.
dlowe102
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dlowe102 9/26/2010 10:51am
9/26/2010 10:51am
Alex wrote:
So with Villopotos bike being 200cc less on a start straight like a plowed field thats perfectly normal for him to holeshot? just wondering BillyJack. what...
So with Villopotos bike being 200cc less on a start straight like a plowed field thats perfectly normal for him to holeshot? just wondering BillyJack. what displacement would you guesstimate Ryans bike was that day?
my opinion on that is at the time the pc bikes were so much better than the rest of the field.
The hp difference i think might have been less than a 250 - 450 would be now
Huntertarket 9/26/2010 10:56am
9/26/2010 10:56am
"And if any of you believe he's riding a 350 out there, then you're also the type to believe in unicorns and chocolate rivers." hahaha
Xracer
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Xracer 9/26/2010 10:59am
9/26/2010 10:59am
I ride a stock blue 250F and routinely get to the first turn ahead of a most of 450's in Vet 30+. If I rode a green or red one, I might get there ahead of a few more. Or maybe not. That drag race to the first turn is more than just brawn....it's an elaborate symphony of physics and balance and weight distribution and reflexes. The same 450's that I always beat to the first turn can positively yank me out of turns, and that's where I think the horsepower and torque comes in.
NP301
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NP301 9/26/2010 11:12am
9/26/2010 11:12am
Billy Jack wrote:
Well, let's put it this way: If this were an amateur race in the stock class and some bike that was a 100cc's less was pulling...
Well, let's put it this way: If this were an amateur race in the stock class and some bike that was a 100cc's less was pulling holeshots on an uphill start, the bike would get the tear-down. People aren't stupid (well, they are, but speaking in generalities...)
a put a 250 2 stroke sticker that said 250 on my 125 and by the end of the day people started asking me how i liked the 250 Tongue and lets mention i weigh 110lbs soo? lol
Ing
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Ing 9/26/2010 11:30am
9/26/2010 11:30am
Did anyone bother listening to it like I suggested. No way it's not a 350. I said so damn it. Now quit questioning my wisdom. A friend of a friend told me he read it on the internet so it HAS to be true.
BIGHEAD1
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BIGHEAD1 9/26/2010 11:35am
9/26/2010 11:35am
Xracer wrote:
I ride a stock blue 250F and routinely get to the first turn ahead of a most of 450's in Vet 30+. If I rode a...
I ride a stock blue 250F and routinely get to the first turn ahead of a most of 450's in Vet 30+. If I rode a green or red one, I might get there ahead of a few more. Or maybe not. That drag race to the first turn is more than just brawn....it's an elaborate symphony of physics and balance and weight distribution and reflexes. The same 450's that I always beat to the first turn can positively yank me out of turns, and that's where I think the horsepower and torque comes in.
Ok so your local vet +30 class is just as competitive as a GP or National. Comparing a world class race to guys that are having a hard time negotiating a track is not a good comparison.
Xracer
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Xracer 9/26/2010 12:22pm
9/26/2010 12:22pm
Xracer wrote:
I ride a stock blue 250F and routinely get to the first turn ahead of a most of 450's in Vet 30+. If I rode a...
I ride a stock blue 250F and routinely get to the first turn ahead of a most of 450's in Vet 30+. If I rode a green or red one, I might get there ahead of a few more. Or maybe not. That drag race to the first turn is more than just brawn....it's an elaborate symphony of physics and balance and weight distribution and reflexes. The same 450's that I always beat to the first turn can positively yank me out of turns, and that's where I think the horsepower and torque comes in.
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
Ok so your local vet +30 class is just as competitive as a GP or National. Comparing a world class race to guys that are having...
Ok so your local vet +30 class is just as competitive as a GP or National. Comparing a world class race to guys that are having a hard time negotiating a track is not a good comparison.
All of what I said applies, just on a different scale. Look how often 250 2-strokes holeshotted SX Mains in 05' when they were taking their last breaths. They shouldn't have...450's have more torque and hook up better, right? Except that RC, Reed and Stewart (and sometimes, McGrath) were on them. It's not about the bike, no matter what level you're at.

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Rewindcaz
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Rewindcaz 9/26/2010 3:33pm
9/26/2010 3:33pm
Twittered earlier

pulpmx:
If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my own sawed off leg.
72kiteboarder
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72kiteboarder 9/26/2010 4:25pm
9/26/2010 4:25pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Twittered earlier [b]pulpmx:[/b] If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my...
Twittered earlier

pulpmx:
If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my own sawed off leg.
Actually CRtwotwo said that.

CRtwotwo :

“@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my (cont) http://tl.gd/67g0nn
MDMCG
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MDMCG 9/26/2010 4:31pm
9/26/2010 4:31pm
Cairoli looked like Alessi today. If he gets a good start, he runs up front and lands on the podium. If he doesn't, well he doesnt....
Lightning78
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Lightning78 9/26/2010 4:37pm
9/26/2010 4:37pm
Alex wrote:
You can see how close the MX2 times are to the MX1 times and yet people still cant seem to accept that a 350 might just...
You can see how close the MX2 times are to the MX1 times and yet people still cant seem to accept that a 350 might just be the perfect balance of power and weight.
Billy Jack wrote:
You -- along with all the other 350 fanboyz -- are missing the point. No one doubts that the right rider can fly around a track...
You -- along with all the other 350 fanboyz -- are missing the point. No one doubts that the right rider can fly around a track on a 350 (or a 250 for that matter), but when a "350" is pulling 450's on an UPHILL start at high altitude, it's OBVIOUS that it's not a 350. No matter there, no one is saying AC is cheating; even if it is a 420, he isn't cheating. But only the obtuse would still hold on to the idea that he is riding an actual 350.
OK Billy..............So what the fuck is the displacement on that bike?....Obviously the 4550's dont really outpull each other on the start so by you're logic that bike is bigger than a 450 because it pulls 450's on uphill starts.....seriously give it a rest it is a 350 and EVEN if its a 400 ....at a 400 its still out pulling 450's as a 400 which ain't much different

I dont care if Matthes thinks its not a 350 and if its not KTM must be doing something right because at the rumored 400cc's it is still yarding 450's. Either way the bike is smaller and faster and that fact needs to be accepted.
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jamma10 9/26/2010 4:38pm
9/26/2010 4:38pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Twittered earlier [b]pulpmx:[/b] If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my...
Twittered earlier

pulpmx:
If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my own sawed off leg.
72kiteboarder wrote:
Actually CRtwotwo said that. CRtwotwo : “@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my...
Actually CRtwotwo said that.

CRtwotwo :

“@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my (cont) http://tl.gd/67g0nn
If we're questioning Cairoli's ability to run with the 450's, what must they think Roczen was riding?
Lightning78
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Lightning78 9/26/2010 4:38pm
9/26/2010 4:38pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Twittered earlier [b]pulpmx:[/b] If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my...
Twittered earlier

pulpmx:
If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my own sawed off leg.
72kiteboarder wrote:
Actually CRtwotwo said that. CRtwotwo : “@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my...
Actually CRtwotwo said that.

CRtwotwo :

“@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my (cont) http://tl.gd/67g0nn
jamma10 wrote:
If we're questioning Cairoli's ability to run with the 450's, what must they think Roczen was riding?
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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dunn2500 9/26/2010 5:31pm
9/26/2010 5:31pm
Alex wrote:
You can see how close the MX2 times are to the MX1 times and yet people still cant seem to accept that a 350 might just...
You can see how close the MX2 times are to the MX1 times and yet people still cant seem to accept that a 350 might just be the perfect balance of power and weight.
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
The bike is HEAVIER than CRF450's. It's not that you can't turn good lap times on it. It's the fact that the bike turned Mike Alessi...
The bike is HEAVIER than CRF450's. It's not that you can't turn good lap times on it. It's the fact that the bike turned Mike Alessi who is arguably the greatest starter of all time and turned him into Mike Larocco.
wrong........alessi did it all on his own........cairoli has been getting holeshots all year, the bike didnt do anything........you can hear the difference between the 350 and 450 so idk why everyone suggest its a big bore............it revs higher and faster w/o as deep as a bark as a 450
Tim507
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Tim507 9/26/2010 5:46pm
9/26/2010 5:46pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Twittered earlier [b]pulpmx:[/b] If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my...
Twittered earlier

pulpmx:
If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my own sawed off leg.
72kiteboarder wrote:
Actually CRtwotwo said that. CRtwotwo : “@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my...
Actually CRtwotwo said that.

CRtwotwo :

“@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my (cont) http://tl.gd/67g0nn
If this twit is really from cr22 then perhaps he is not going to be riding orange..............
rockcrawlerdude 9/26/2010 6:19pm
9/26/2010 6:19pm
mxmasta wrote:
Did you doubters ever hear of wheelspin and throttle control?? What if AC can control that 350 better out of the gate, when all the overpowered...
Did you doubters ever hear of wheelspin and throttle control??
What if AC can control that 350 better out of the gate, when all the overpowered 450 have to deal with wheelspin?!?! That 350 has nearly as much hp than the 450s, so I see no problem in pulling a holeshot with that thing.
bingo! someone understands how easily it can be done....
Old School Racer 9/26/2010 6:54pm
9/26/2010 6:54pm
Last year on a Yamaha AC rode a 390-395 from what I know. He could very well be on a 350-375-390-400. Who really cares. He is fast, rides the bike well, and since he isnt racing it against the 250F's why does everyone have their panties in a bunch.

When RV did work on a 250F at Budds nobody questioned anything. What about KR today taing to the 450's at altitude and hills. Again, like I said earlier, the best guys can ride anything fast.

Give AC credit for being a gnarly dude PERIOD........!
swizcore
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swizcore 9/26/2010 7:19pm
9/26/2010 7:19pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Twittered earlier [b]pulpmx:[/b] If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my...
Twittered earlier

pulpmx:
If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my own sawed off leg.
72kiteboarder wrote:
Actually CRtwotwo said that. CRtwotwo : “@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my...
Actually CRtwotwo said that.

CRtwotwo :

“@pulpmx: If raviolis bike is a 350 I will cut my own leg off with a butterknife and kick my own ass with my (cont) http://tl.gd/67g0nn
Tim507 wrote:
If this twit is really from cr22 then perhaps he is not going to be riding orange..............
CR was quoting Matthes and responding.
Ashleymx
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Ashleymx 9/27/2010 12:02am
9/27/2010 12:02am
I was at the track and there were some other 350s that clearly sounded different to the 450s. Cairoli's bike DID sound closer to 450 sound. But then he seemed to struggle to clear the quad every lap which leads me to think 400!

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