Fuel injection on the two stroke

Jaze
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FI
9/18/2010 4:28am
This is the evolution of 2-stroke motor. Latest is now to put fuel pulse direct to pistonhead so there is no fuel leak to exhaust port (more power, easy start, less emission, less fuel consumption). You don´t mix oil to gas anymore just put oil to own tank.

9/18/2010 6:11am
Mejan wrote:
Where´s the fuel injection on the two stroke?
The boats got it, why not on a bike?
Traction control does not absolutely require fuel injection, nor was it a topic of your previous claims, nor is it legal and thus relevant.

You're missing the point of the actual benefits of DI, and why it is so much better than FI or carb for a 2-stroke.
9/18/2010 6:15am
Jaze wrote:
This is the evolution of 2-stroke motor. Latest is now to put fuel pulse direct to pistonhead so there is no fuel leak to exhaust port...
This is the evolution of 2-stroke motor. Latest is now to put fuel pulse direct to pistonhead so there is no fuel leak to exhaust port (more power, easy start, less emission, less fuel consumption). You don´t mix oil to gas anymore just put oil to own tank.

Very interesting.

Sound's kinda similar to what Lotus and others are doing:

Lotus Omnivore

The Shop

Kinetic1
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Gun Lake, MI, USA
9/18/2010 7:03am
TriRacer27 wrote:
Traction control does not absolutely require fuel injection, nor was it a topic of your previous claims, nor is it legal and thus relevant. You're missing...
Traction control does not absolutely require fuel injection, nor was it a topic of your previous claims, nor is it legal and thus relevant.

You're missing the point of the actual benefits of DI, and why it is so much better than FI or carb for a 2-stroke.
You are correct. It is not a requirement, although it makes it easier and more tunable and thus more effective. We are not talking about AMA SX or MX (unless I missed something) so legality is also not an issue.

I fully understand the true benefits of DI and welcome them. I think it is you who are missing the point. DI can offer so much more than good fuel economy and low emissions and longer engine life. DI is the key to a 100% tunable engine. You can have whatever you want with DI when taken to it's full advantage. You can have fire breathing tire spinning rocket ship power or you can have nice tractable stump pulling power all with the same engine. That was all I was getting at.

You should check out the future of two strokes web site when you get a chance. I don't have the link handy but I will find it for you.
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
9/18/2010 8:07am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2010 8:31am
Going high tech completely blows the best arguments for 2 strokes, which are simplicity and low cost.



Champagne tastes on a beer budget. Dumb.
jeffro503
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St Helens, OR, USA
9/18/2010 9:09am
jeffro503 wrote:
I know an extremely fast 85cc rider here in the NW ( probably more than a few ) that use a mechanical fuel injection system.....and it...
I know an extremely fast 85cc rider here in the NW ( probably more than a few ) that use a mechanical fuel injection system.....and it is by far the fastest 85cc bike I have ever witnessed! seriously looks like he pull up next to a modified 125......looks to be that fast!
DrSweden wrote:
Don't the 125 cc go-carts have some crazy fuel pumps? Not the same as EFI, but they create sick HP? Heard of European 125 cc engine...
Don't the 125 cc go-carts have some crazy fuel pumps? Not the same as EFI, but they create sick HP? Heard of European 125 cc engine with 50 hp on the dyno (not because fuel pump maybe).
I'm not 100% positive on that Doc , but you very well could be correct. I thought I had heard that the guy who builds the motors on these extremely fast 85cc was into karts as well.

I had never heard of a "mechanical fuel injection" system like what he had on that bike....but whatever he did.....it would be something you would have to see in person to believe it.

The rider's name is Max Harris. He has also won TWICE at the Las vegas US Open! I think it was before he hooked up with FIRE 1.

His website is small , and not very informative......but i'm telling you guys , this dude knows how to build a motor! >>>> http://www.fire1racing.com .

I also know he did some work on some bigger 250's and 450's.....so it's not just the 2 strokes he works on.
Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX, USA
9/18/2010 2:31pm
Some of you are confusing FI w/ DI.

DI is just now hitting all of the (4 stroke) cars. BMW got it in 2011. Nissan got it in 2008. Porsche 2009. But it is the future.

DI does in fact create a dramatically wider powerband.

KTM has publicly stated that they have good running prototypes w/ DI but due to the additional cost and weight that they won't due it until Euro III requires them too.

Honestly, I'd rather KTM just build a 350cc 2 stroke w/ a non tuned expansion chamber that creates less peak hp but a very wide powerband using a carb. It would not have to weigh any more than a 2011 250SX and w/ 350cc available it would not be hard to create close to a 450F type of powerband all around.

2 strokes are peaky because they are tuned for max power. They don't have to be that way.
Blake
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9/18/2010 2:45pm
BS. DI has been around for years.

Suzuki is the only one not using DI or a version of it.

Polaris uses a normal throttle bottle injector, and one in the transfer port.

HP and Size 2 vs 4, the 2 stroke is cleaner burning with less emissions.

The boat industry has proved this over and over.

Blake
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9/18/2010 2:58pm
CamP wrote:
Going high tech completely blows the best arguments for 2 strokes, which are simplicity and low cost.



Champagne tastes on a beer budget. Dumb.
So a few hundred more is a big deal?
ns503
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NS Toolies, CA
9/18/2010 3:50pm Edited Date/Time 9/18/2010 3:51pm
Blake wrote:
BS. DI has been around for years. Suzuki is the only one not using DI or a version of it. Polaris uses a normal throttle bottle...
BS. DI has been around for years.

Suzuki is the only one not using DI or a version of it.

Polaris uses a normal throttle bottle injector, and one in the transfer port.

HP and Size 2 vs 4, the 2 stroke is cleaner burning with less emissions.

The boat industry has proved this over and over.

Sorry, you're wrong.

DI means the injector is straight into the combustion chamber. Not transfer port or any other port or any other motor part or area. You know, that space between the top of the piston and the cylinder head? Show us where Honda, Kawi, Yami, Suzuki, KTM, or anyone aside from BRP or one of its companies is using that - and not in a prototype.
RACEGUY
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Moncton, CA
9/18/2010 6:57pm
Your current diesel highway tractor (semi) is an excellent example of direct injection technology. DI means the fuel spray is not limited to times when the piston is on the intake stroke. In modern diesels, the injectors go through a series of multiple pulses that mist and even spray fuel at rediculous pressures. This allows the engineers to customize fuel delivery in order to cool specific areas in the combustion chamber and along the cylinder walls, and change the characteristics of the fuel spray to maximize the efficiency of the combustion itself.

Too cool.
TerryK
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9/18/2010 7:05pm
Braaap! I'd ride that sweet sounding 300.

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Blake
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9/18/2010 7:48pm
Blake wrote:
BS. DI has been around for years. Suzuki is the only one not using DI or a version of it. Polaris uses a normal throttle bottle...
BS. DI has been around for years.

Suzuki is the only one not using DI or a version of it.

Polaris uses a normal throttle bottle injector, and one in the transfer port.

HP and Size 2 vs 4, the 2 stroke is cleaner burning with less emissions.

The boat industry has proved this over and over.

ns503 wrote:
Sorry, you're wrong. DI means the injector is straight into the combustion chamber. Not transfer port or any other port or any other motor part or...
Sorry, you're wrong.

DI means the injector is straight into the combustion chamber. Not transfer port or any other port or any other motor part or area. You know, that space between the top of the piston and the cylinder head? Show us where Honda, Kawi, Yami, Suzuki, KTM, or anyone aside from BRP or one of its companies is using that - and not in a prototype.
It doesn't matter.
Any current EFI sled passes CARB standards.
9/19/2010 7:52am
Honda had a prototype cr250 back in the mid nineties with fuel injection. It was some zero emissions bike. They said it burned so perfectly that it emitted no emissions. Turbo
dlowe102
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Jacksonville, FL, USA
9/19/2010 8:21am
bmbmoto wrote:
I was told by a good mate who happens to be a ktm dealer too 2 years ago that ktm where developing fuel injected 2 strokes
I know someone who rode a proto ktm 4 years ago he said it was a 125 with some special injection..he swore it had a stronger powr spread than any bike hes ever ridden
dlowe102
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Jacksonville, FL, USA
9/19/2010 8:24am
Suns_PSD wrote:
Some of you are confusing FI w/ DI. DI is just now hitting all of the (4 stroke) cars. BMW got it in 2011. Nissan got...
Some of you are confusing FI w/ DI.

DI is just now hitting all of the (4 stroke) cars. BMW got it in 2011. Nissan got it in 2008. Porsche 2009. But it is the future.

DI does in fact create a dramatically wider powerband.

KTM has publicly stated that they have good running prototypes w/ DI but due to the additional cost and weight that they won't due it until Euro III requires them too.

Honestly, I'd rather KTM just build a 350cc 2 stroke w/ a non tuned expansion chamber that creates less peak hp but a very wide powerband using a carb. It would not have to weigh any more than a 2011 250SX and w/ 350cc available it would not be hard to create close to a 450F type of powerband all around.

2 strokes are peaky because they are tuned for max power. They don't have to be that way.
Correctomundo
broman64
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USA
9/19/2010 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2010 12:12pm
gotwings wrote:
MotoGp has been 4 stroke only since 2003...
Does that stop them from developing F.I. on 2 strokes?... Honda has had 2 stroke F.I. prototypes since the mid 90s, and never put it into production... There
is a company, right now, that offers fuel injection for 2 strokes...I don't know if their F.I. is programmable or not, but it could be, easy, if they wanted, and there was a market that demanded it...



BMan-
mx'er 197
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Creve Coeur, IL, USA
9/19/2010 12:35pm
CR250Rider wrote:
[img]http://static.blogo.it/twowheelsblog/ossa-tr280i-01/big_ossa_002perfild.jpg[/img]
TriRacer27 wrote:
I wonder if trails bikes, re-geared and with different suspension, would make better FMX bikes than current motocross bikes?
Hey Triracer, these guys seem to do ok with some fmx. http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Video/Dupont%C2%B4s-Trial-bi…
ando
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Perth, AU
9/19/2010 12:51pm
Despite the consistently occuring rumours, a DI 2 stroke dirtbike is yet to see the light of day. Personally, I doubt one will unless CARB emission standards or something similar are applied to dirtbikes.

Also with electric bikes coming along, it could be a case of too little, too late.
9/22/2010 6:55pm
This husqvarna x-torq chainsaw 2 stroke would work sweet for bikes!

Would be a good simple alternative to DI, you can still run a carb or starndard FI



TMV
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FR
10/16/2014 6:47am Edited Date/Time 10/16/2014 7:29am
300 Sherco SE-R fuel injected is being tested. Review in the last Motoverte magazin which I don't have...

BobPA
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10/16/2014 6:54am
4 year old thread man
JerseyFresh
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10/16/2014 7:22am
BobPA wrote:
4 year old thread man
And yet he posted current, relevant information. Unlike yourself.
endurox
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Garden City, ID, USA
10/16/2014 7:58am
CARB has been talking about emmision standards for competion bikes. EU emission standards for off road bikes start in 2017.
So even 4 strokes will be more restricted.
resetjet
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Tampa, FL, USA
10/16/2014 8:13am
First of all fuel inject and direct inject are entirely different.

No reason to complicate what works good with a carb.....waste of money.

Only real reason to do DI is EPA compliance.

Boats did it for that.

Snowmobiles mainly due to cold weather and high altitude and big changes in both on the same ride.

Somewhere there is a KTM inteview where the guys says they have a DI bike on the shelf, but see no reason to put it out as it will cost more, be more complicated and break easier and a carb does quite well on a 2T motorbike.

So until the EPA bans carbed 2 strokes, don't get your hopes up.

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