Fixing MX/ SX

burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 10:17am
There are many theories on how to fix it, but here are some current probs:

Bike prices are going up.
Economy is going down.
Less riders can afford to race.
Less expensive two stroke bikes are virtually banned.

Can this be fixed? Where will it be in five years?
|
ATKpilot99
Posts
10459
Joined
4/13/2010
Location
Lake Geneva, WI, USA
9/15/2010 11:34am


Start seeing Chinese knockoffs like this on the line .
jeffro756
Posts
751
Joined
4/20/2008
Location
Sycamore, IL, USA
9/15/2010 12:10pm
to fix is to make something not functioning at all function, to improve is to make something that works better. Not know the distinction, or blind enough to believe it is not working at all?
9/15/2010 12:26pm
burn1986 wrote:
There are many theories on how to fix it, but here are some current probs: Bike prices are going up. Economy is going down. Less riders...
There are many theories on how to fix it, but here are some current probs:

Bike prices are going up.
Economy is going down.
Less riders can afford to race.
Less expensive two stroke bikes are virtually banned.

Can this be fixed? Where will it be in five years?
I saw an old episode of Top Gear recently where James May went to Finland to see why so many top drivers come from Finland. He mentioned that Finland has the most Formula 1 and World Rally Champions per capita of all nations in the world. FINLAND!

When he researched why that is, many attribute it to how everyone in there is taught how to drive. In order to get a license, you have to learn how to powerslide a car, how to save it while spinning out of control, etc. Basic courses for race car driving are part of the normal driving test. Which means that the average granny in Finland could probably out drift the average US fast and furious wannabe in his civic.

But the point is that motorsports are extremely successful there because so many people are exposed to it. Formula One champions there are held in higher esteem than soccer players because just about everyone follows the championship. So this gives them: 1) higher pool of people from which to extract talent, 2) more amateur involvement at the local racing level and 3) more fans following the action so more sponsorship money.


The fact is that the answer is simple: motocross has to be accessible to more people. This means several things have to happen.

1) Lower cost (duh) for everything but most importantly the bikes. I don't mean the little TTR or XR trail bikes no one uses to race other than the circus half time shows. There have to be cheaper alternatives for racers, and promoters have to work together to make racing more fair for those on a budget. They do this in car racing with different classes depending on budget, with some of the most popular classes limited to $500/car. If you can race a $500 car and have fun, why can't people find a class to race dirt bikes competitively without spending over $8000??

2) More accessible places to ride --> less noise. You and I have no problem driving 1 hour to go riding because we are already hooked, but many people won't commit to that when they are first starting and just finding out if they even like the sport or not.

3) Our attitudes have to change. Any time we find ourselves in front of someone who, for all intents and purposes, really wants to be a part of the sport, we get all high and mighty if he doesn't know the difference between fuel injection or carburation. So what if he has a flat billed hat and rides like a goon, we were all goons at some point too. No one want's to join a sport full of entitled old assholes who are too good to lend a helping hand or advice.


When the factories and regulatory agencies realize that racing at the pro level and racing at the amateur level are not the same thing, then they will start making progress. When was the last time your local ford dealership had a nascar car available for purchase? They need to start making bikes for the needs of the people, not of their pro racers.


OK, that is all.

The Shop

peelout719
Posts
2507
Joined
4/30/2008
Location
Ogden, UT, USA
9/15/2010 12:32pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
[img]https://www.bikez.com/pictures/xmotos/2010/31155_0_1_2_xz%20250r_Image%20credits%20-%20Xmotos.jpg[/img] Start seeing Chinese knockoffs like this on the line .


Start seeing Chinese knockoffs like this on the line .
can polish a turd, but it's still going to be a turd
AdamB
Posts
330
Joined
8/31/2009
Location
Cumberland, MD, USA
9/15/2010 12:38pm
burn1986 wrote:
There are many theories on how to fix it, but here are some current probs: Bike prices are going up. Economy is going down. Less riders...
There are many theories on how to fix it, but here are some current probs:

Bike prices are going up.
Economy is going down.
Less riders can afford to race.
Less expensive two stroke bikes are virtually banned.

Can this be fixed? Where will it be in five years?
TriRacer27 wrote:
I saw an old episode of Top Gear recently where James May went to Finland to see why so many top drivers come from Finland. He...
I saw an old episode of Top Gear recently where James May went to Finland to see why so many top drivers come from Finland. He mentioned that Finland has the most Formula 1 and World Rally Champions per capita of all nations in the world. FINLAND!

When he researched why that is, many attribute it to how everyone in there is taught how to drive. In order to get a license, you have to learn how to powerslide a car, how to save it while spinning out of control, etc. Basic courses for race car driving are part of the normal driving test. Which means that the average granny in Finland could probably out drift the average US fast and furious wannabe in his civic.

But the point is that motorsports are extremely successful there because so many people are exposed to it. Formula One champions there are held in higher esteem than soccer players because just about everyone follows the championship. So this gives them: 1) higher pool of people from which to extract talent, 2) more amateur involvement at the local racing level and 3) more fans following the action so more sponsorship money.


The fact is that the answer is simple: motocross has to be accessible to more people. This means several things have to happen.

1) Lower cost (duh) for everything but most importantly the bikes. I don't mean the little TTR or XR trail bikes no one uses to race other than the circus half time shows. There have to be cheaper alternatives for racers, and promoters have to work together to make racing more fair for those on a budget. They do this in car racing with different classes depending on budget, with some of the most popular classes limited to $500/car. If you can race a $500 car and have fun, why can't people find a class to race dirt bikes competitively without spending over $8000??

2) More accessible places to ride --> less noise. You and I have no problem driving 1 hour to go riding because we are already hooked, but many people won't commit to that when they are first starting and just finding out if they even like the sport or not.

3) Our attitudes have to change. Any time we find ourselves in front of someone who, for all intents and purposes, really wants to be a part of the sport, we get all high and mighty if he doesn't know the difference between fuel injection or carburation. So what if he has a flat billed hat and rides like a goon, we were all goons at some point too. No one want's to join a sport full of entitled old assholes who are too good to lend a helping hand or advice.


When the factories and regulatory agencies realize that racing at the pro level and racing at the amateur level are not the same thing, then they will start making progress. When was the last time your local ford dealership had a nascar car available for purchase? They need to start making bikes for the needs of the people, not of their pro racers.


OK, that is all.
Took awhile to read, but very well said!
jmx411
Posts
1256
Joined
4/19/2009
Location
Leesville, SC, USA
9/15/2010 12:52pm
Its very simple. When the economy gets better than more people will start riding. Until then it will slowly decline, but I could be wrong but I feel like there were more people at the Nationals this year than there were a few years ago when the economy was great. That has to be a good thing.
9/15/2010 12:56pm
2000 YZ 250: $5,599
2000 adjusted for inflation:$7,083 (Via http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl)


2010 YZF 250: $6,990
2010 YZF 450: $7,990

Adjusted for inflation a 2000 250 is about $900 cheaper than a 2010 450. It would probably cost you more than $900 to make a stock 250 as competitive as a stock 450. So bringing up floor costs in your argument is entirely a red herring.

There are only two things you can argue: cheapness of a 125 (guess what, you can still buy them) and maintenance. Even with the more expensive maintenance, you can't overcome how much power you get per dollar. Especially if you compared HP/dollar.

The only thing 4 strokes have hurt is the 125 class, which I agree sucks bad. On the other hand, it has never been easier for privateers to compete engine-wise at the 450 level, which has made for better racing.
peelout719
Posts
2507
Joined
4/30/2008
Location
Ogden, UT, USA
9/15/2010 12:59pm
jmx411 wrote:
Its very simple. When the economy gets better than more people will start riding. Until then it will slowly decline, but I could be wrong but...
Its very simple. When the economy gets better than more people will start riding. Until then it will slowly decline, but I could be wrong but I feel like there were more people at the Nationals this year than there were a few years ago when the economy was great. That has to be a good thing.
an interesting point is that people are still willing to spend top dollar for vacations and get-aways.

but 8 grand on a new bike? fuuhget about it
9/15/2010 1:13pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 1:23pm
Your forgetting the safety factor.



I grew up ridding XR's in the woods and then got into motocross in my mid 20's.

I mostly practice now but have done several races over the last 10 years, I ride MX exclusively since the first day on the track. Trail ridding is just boring now.



I totally love MX and I'm addicted to it but now that my oldest son is starting to ride I am very hesitant to take him to a MX track. I know if he gets addicted to it like me then he'll want to race and if you race long enough, odds are you will get hurt.



For me safety is the biggest factor.











ando
Posts
4490
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth, AU
9/15/2010 2:14pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
[img]https://www.bikez.com/pictures/xmotos/2010/31155_0_1_2_xz%20250r_Image%20credits%20-%20Xmotos.jpg[/img] Start seeing Chinese knockoffs like this on the line .


Start seeing Chinese knockoffs like this on the line .
peelout719 wrote:
can polish a turd, but it's still going to be a turd
No doubt people were saying the same thing about Japanese bikes 40 years ago.
mccread
Posts
5934
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
9/15/2010 2:53pm
Put Jason Weigandt and Grant Langston on the speed coverage for supercross for a start !
newmann
Posts
24438
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
9/15/2010 3:19pm
Local tracks that are designed to suit about 10% of the riders would be the first thing I would consider. It's amazing that 90% of the local riders can't, won't or shouldn't attempt some of the obstacles at the local track but at the same time they are not given an out or an alternate line to keep them from becoming an obstacle for the faster rider coming up from behind. Gapped doubles and triples have no place on a track open to the general public. Steep jump faces with kicker lips on the face shouldn't be there either. It's so damn easy to bridge the gaps yet still leave a little definition to the double or triple. The fast guys will still clear it yet the slower guys can still get over it quick enough to not endanger themselves or the fast guy behind them. I know a lot of people that won't take their kids to the track just for those reasons alone. And the track owners and managers are too stupid to do anything about it yet they wonder why nobody shows up.
FreshTopEnd
Posts
13286
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
9/15/2010 3:24pm
Make tracks that facilitate side-by-side racing. Those battles are what make the sport compelling. Every battle is fresh, unlike the shock value of an FMX trick that wears off when you get used to it.

People understand racing and are drawn into it, whether the 100m at the Olympics, the Kentucky Derby, or the pig races at the county fair.
MX7MX
Posts
845
Joined
8/28/2007
Location
USA
9/15/2010 3:30pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 3:31pm
newmann wrote:
Local tracks that are designed to suit about 10% of the riders would be the first thing I would consider. It's amazing that 90% of the...
Local tracks that are designed to suit about 10% of the riders would be the first thing I would consider. It's amazing that 90% of the local riders can't, won't or shouldn't attempt some of the obstacles at the local track but at the same time they are not given an out or an alternate line to keep them from becoming an obstacle for the faster rider coming up from behind. Gapped doubles and triples have no place on a track open to the general public. Steep jump faces with kicker lips on the face shouldn't be there either. It's so damn easy to bridge the gaps yet still leave a little definition to the double or triple. The fast guys will still clear it yet the slower guys can still get over it quick enough to not endanger themselves or the fast guy behind them. I know a lot of people that won't take their kids to the track just for those reasons alone. And the track owners and managers are too stupid to do anything about it yet they wonder why nobody shows up.
HO MF F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A post without 2 stroke in it?????? You ok Newmann?

Post a reply to: Fixing MX/ SX

The Latest