Used bike: Title vs bill of sale?

TX_187
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TX_187
Edited Date/Time 4/4/2016 12:41am
Found a really clean bike on craigslist, just what I'm looking for, reasonably priced, and the guy seems legit. Asked him if he had the title and all he has is a bill of sale. I know dirt bikes dont have to be registered but is there anything I should look for or be concerned about? This is the first time I've considered buying a used bike, usually buy them straight out the box so I'm new to the used bike game. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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253
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253 9/10/2010 12:36pm
9/10/2010 12:36pm
TX_187 wrote:
Found a really clean bike on craigslist, just what I'm looking for, reasonably priced, and the guy seems legit. Asked him if he had the title...
Found a really clean bike on craigslist, just what I'm looking for, reasonably priced, and the guy seems legit. Asked him if he had the title and all he has is a bill of sale. I know dirt bikes dont have to be registered but is there anything I should look for or be concerned about? This is the first time I've considered buying a used bike, usually buy them straight out the box so I'm new to the used bike game. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
I just went through the same thing this past year. I found a really clean bike, actually it was right down the Street from me.. So it was a pretty legit sounding situation; nice house, older guy, and close to me. But I have been having a hell of a time getting the title from the DMV... They keep asking for one thing after another... Anyhow, I love the bike,,, and really nobody checks for the title or registration at the tracks....so really your just getting the title so you can sell it easily (when the time comes)
4mxonly
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4mxonly 9/10/2010 12:43pm
9/10/2010 12:43pm
Each state is different, but a well written bill of sale will suffice in most cases.
mxb2
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mxb2 9/10/2010 12:44pm
9/10/2010 12:44pm
I work for a police dept if the paper work is kinda shady, have the local police ck the vin to make sure its not stolen! And make sure whatever paperwork you have it has the VIN on it, Get a receipt signed by you and the seller So it states its paid in full! Get the manual and some proof of ownership, because if it gets impounded or stolen and you need to recover it you will need proof of ownership. It will save a headache in the longrun and get insurance TRUST ME i ve seen alota hard workers get burned. And a title or Man certification of origin with the VIN and your name signed with the date
TX_187
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TX_187 9/10/2010 12:48pm
9/10/2010 12:48pm
Yea, i was pretty pumped on the bike. The guy lives a couple hours from me but we agreed to meet in the middle so everything sounded good til he dropped the title deal on me. I was a little cautious but figured some of you guys would know. Thanks for the advice. I might have a new 2 smoker in the garage this weekend if all goes as planned.

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mxb2
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mxb2 9/10/2010 12:50pm
9/10/2010 12:50pm
Guess we ll be getting pics soon?
TX_187
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TX_187 9/10/2010 1:08pm
9/10/2010 1:08pm
Without a doubt. It's an 06 cr250. Original tires, grips, everything is stock. He sent me some detailed pics and it looks super clean. I had an 03 and 04 cr250 so I'm pretty partial to the red ride. I hope it all pans out. Thanks again
Sanchez
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Sanchez 9/10/2010 1:14pm
9/10/2010 1:14pm
Most dirt bikes come with a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) which lists the VIN and some banks I've financed through have accepted as Certificate of Title for lien purposes.

Anyway, if the owner no longer has the MCO, you can typically get a new one by requesting it though the manufacturer...or possibly through the dealership where the bike was originally purchased if that information is available to you. Good luck
mxb2
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mxb2 9/10/2010 1:14pm
9/10/2010 1:14pm
right on man always glad to help a fellow mx bro!
TerryK
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TerryK 9/10/2010 1:19pm
9/10/2010 1:19pm
If the price is right who can pass up a stock bike with low hours original parts still in place? Good luck!
qdogg691
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qdogg691 9/10/2010 1:57pm
9/10/2010 1:57pm
I have worked in a dealership for 15 years so my advice is find out why he has no title. Also a certificate of origin is not a title, if he hands you one of the you need to make sure the tax has been paid on it. If you go to the DMV and show up with a C of O they are gonna want to collect tax for the original purchase price unless you have proof it was paid. Another problem these days is most people finance so without a lein release you dont know if the person still owes money on it. I live in Illinois so you have to have title here.
Weeks381fan
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Weeks381fan 9/10/2010 2:56pm
9/10/2010 2:56pm Edited Date/Time 9/10/2010 2:59pm
A title for an MX bike is retarded. We have never had to have them and who the heck cares. Get a bill of sale and be done with it. Why would you take anything from a dirtbike into the DMV? You can't license the damn thing! I might have bought 5 bikes in my life that had titles. I don't even ask for one anymore. The only way this could be beneficial is if you are suspicious that the guy still owes money on it through a bank.
rmgsxr
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rmgsxr 9/10/2010 3:17pm
9/10/2010 3:17pm
Weeks381fan wrote:
A title for an MX bike is retarded. We have never had to have them and who the heck cares. Get a bill of sale and...
A title for an MX bike is retarded. We have never had to have them and who the heck cares. Get a bill of sale and be done with it. Why would you take anything from a dirtbike into the DMV? You can't license the damn thing! I might have bought 5 bikes in my life that had titles. I don't even ask for one anymore. The only way this could be beneficial is if you are suspicious that the guy still owes money on it through a bank.
In our state a title proves that you paid sales tax. Does not matter that you are putting the thing on the street or not. It also proves ownership. If your bike gets stolen and ends up in a police tow lot you will not get it back without a title. And like what has already been mentioned, with the price of new and used bikes there are a lot of them financed and it is good to have proof that there is no lean against the bike.

I am trying to help a customer right now that sold a bike to someone and had lost his title so he just gave them a bill of sale. They have shipped the bike to another country and now the thing is tied up until someone comes up with a title. Guess who is getting nailed. The guy that sold it without a title even after the people told him they were not worried about it.

yak651
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yak651 9/10/2010 4:20pm
9/10/2010 4:20pm
I've never received a title for a mx bike, maybe other states are different. Same with selling, just a hand written note with my name, sellers name, date, signatures, bike description and the words AS IS. Unless it's a dual purpose bike, no reason to require a title.
mx5471
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mx5471 9/10/2010 7:49pm
9/10/2010 7:49pm
It's really simple gentlemen. It's not yours if you can't prove ownership. Even if you can prove it's yours,if the bank comes looking for it,it's gone. As they say at the start,protect yourself at all times. As a side note,some one posted a video of all these guys riding in Baltimore,down the streets and xpressways. I bet every one of those bikes were stolen. Protect your self at all times means sometimes to walk away. What appears to be a great deal,may turn into an expensive headache.
mxb2
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mxb2 9/10/2010 7:55pm
9/10/2010 7:55pm
Yep Totally agree, make it simple and get some proof of ownership! Paying for a title might be cheaper in the long run. If you cant prove ownership and the bike is impounded, or recovered from being stolen, the tow co will keep the bike until the correct paperwork is provided and the police dept will not realese paperwork to the non owner! Owning a Mx bike requires responsibility. Each state may vary, but better safe than sorry!
brianq
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brianq 10/4/2015 7:39pm
10/4/2015 7:39pm
mxb2 wrote:
Yep Totally agree, make it simple and get some proof of ownership! Paying for a title might be cheaper in the long run. If you cant...
Yep Totally agree, make it simple and get some proof of ownership! Paying for a title might be cheaper in the long run. If you cant prove ownership and the bike is impounded, or recovered from being stolen, the tow co will keep the bike until the correct paperwork is provided and the police dept will not realese paperwork to the non owner! Owning a Mx bike requires responsibility. Each state may vary, but better safe than sorry!
i just purchased a dirtbike from a family member but the issue is he had no paper work no bill of sale or any papers and i would like to know is it possible that i can get proof of owner ship for the bike if the vin is clean? thanks for the help in advance
mxb2
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mxb2 10/4/2015 7:58pm
10/4/2015 7:58pm
mxb2 wrote:
Yep Totally agree, make it simple and get some proof of ownership! Paying for a title might be cheaper in the long run. If you cant...
Yep Totally agree, make it simple and get some proof of ownership! Paying for a title might be cheaper in the long run. If you cant prove ownership and the bike is impounded, or recovered from being stolen, the tow co will keep the bike until the correct paperwork is provided and the police dept will not realese paperwork to the non owner! Owning a Mx bike requires responsibility. Each state may vary, but better safe than sorry!
brianq wrote:
i just purchased a dirtbike from a family member but the issue is he had no paper work no bill of sale or any papers and...
i just purchased a dirtbike from a family member but the issue is he had no paper work no bill of sale or any papers and i would like to know is it possible that i can get proof of owner ship for the bike if the vin is clean? thanks for the help in advance
Did you check the vin # before you bought it? make sure its not stolen.
NeedMoto
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NeedMoto 10/4/2015 8:24pm
10/4/2015 8:24pm
yak651 wrote:
I've never received a title for a mx bike, maybe other states are different. Same with selling, just a hand written note with my name, sellers...
I've never received a title for a mx bike, maybe other states are different. Same with selling, just a hand written note with my name, sellers name, date, signatures, bike description and the words AS IS. Unless it's a dual purpose bike, no reason to require a title.
I'm the odd man out in this thread. I've had titles for every bike I've bought and sold, over the last 40 years of riding.

Never thought of doing business without titles.

Cool... now I have more options for finding bikes Whistling

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jason486
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jason486 10/4/2015 8:35pm
10/4/2015 8:35pm
I bought my 02 cr250 with no title in ca, I had printed the paper for lost title or bill of sale off the DMV web site had him fill it out with name address and dl number went to DMV next day with paper work and paid transfer free and registered it for $162
jhansen510
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jhansen510 10/4/2015 8:40pm
10/4/2015 8:40pm
It is much more important in some states than in others. I have lived in states that it is a necessity. I have also lived in states where it is a non issue. I do not buy used bikes anymore so have not worried about it in a long time.
bigwavedave
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bigwavedave 10/4/2015 8:57pm
10/4/2015 8:57pm
In AZ, you need an offroad sticker and plate to ride some areas, which requires a title. Might want to check your state out.
Cancerman
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Cancerman 10/4/2015 10:04pm
10/4/2015 10:04pm
In Florida, you need a title or the bike needs to be titled to ride in State ORV parks, or Forrest. Most used dirt bike that are older, don't have titles. A lot of bikes here come from Georgia, which don't title dirt bikes. That said, I went to Croom offroad park, which is in the Withalahoochee (?) Forrest, and on their website, they make a big deal about Sparkys and titles, yet nobody looked at my bike or asked for a title. There is a website in Florida that you can check VIN numbers, if there are any records, liens, theft reports, etc., that's when it will show. You can check it from your smart phone, before you buy. Check your state, you might have the same thing.
TbonesPop 10/4/2015 10:11pm
10/4/2015 10:11pm
TX_187 wrote:
Found a really clean bike on craigslist, just what I'm looking for, reasonably priced, and the guy seems legit. Asked him if he had the title...
Found a really clean bike on craigslist, just what I'm looking for, reasonably priced, and the guy seems legit. Asked him if he had the title and all he has is a bill of sale. I know dirt bikes dont have to be registered but is there anything I should look for or be concerned about? This is the first time I've considered buying a used bike, usually buy them straight out the box so I'm new to the used bike game. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
1) Do a VIN check to make sure it's not stolen. Check the VIN on the frame and the engine. Make sure nothing was scratched/ground off
2) Get a "NOTARIZED bill of sale", not just a random hand written bill of sale - you should be able to download a free form from your local state gov website. Use that as proof you took ownership from the previous owner. If it's not notarized, it's worthless.
3) Don't fool with the headache of the local DMV (proof of govt workers are useless) - take this request to a title agency who will do all the work for you on the title. Usually costs you about $150-$200 max and about 2 weeks they will call you to "come get your title". Yes this is more than doing it yourself, but I would rather change a 1000 dirtbike tires than go to the DMV on this type of stuff. Well worth the money.

I've done this 3 times. As long as you do the VIN check and know the bike isn't stolen, it's a great way to pick up a bike and save about $1K (at least that is what usually happens out here in AZ where you have to have a title/OHV registration/sticker to ride public offroad trails). If you are only riding private tracks, no need for a title except for proof of ownership.
rocketsocks26 10/5/2015 2:09am
10/5/2015 2:09am
title. in nj its a must . I just got out of a situation without a title, without one it devalues the purchase. like someone said above some states may be strictor than others. in nj, no title, no bike
brianq
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brianq 10/5/2015 4:46am
10/5/2015 4:46am
alright when i go to my dads ill check the vin again but it should be clean the bike was bought brand new and never used more then twice but if i was to file for a lost title is this what i should follow?

Roscoe33
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Roscoe33 10/5/2015 5:27am
10/5/2015 5:27am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2015 7:21am
a bill of sale just shows you bought a bike it doesn't prove the bike isn't stolen.
call the DMV they will tell you whether the bike has ever been registered or the ownership is lost.
I hope it isn't not lost, just never registered, if it's lost you need a freind at the DMV.
resetjet
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resetjet 10/5/2015 6:49am
10/5/2015 6:49am
You will probably find it has never been titled. The vin may come up empty. Its a dirt bike, bill of sale is fine, take pic of guys license and go riding. If you plan on plating it, you can still plate a bike with no title. You just have to go to a state that does not require it, then transfer it to your home state later. If you don't plan on plating it, who cares about a title, why pay the tax to put it in your name?????
mx 219
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mx 219 10/5/2015 6:51am
10/5/2015 6:51am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2015 6:57am
every motorcycle that is bought will have a certificate or origin (also called MSO - Manufacturer's Statement of Origin). The owner will receive the MSO once the bike is paid off. I have paid cash for bikes out of state and gotten the MSO right on the spot. If you get a loan you will get the MSO (and title, if titled) once the bike is paid off.

Even if the bike was never titled, like several of mine I have bought out of state, there is still an MSO to that bike, if they don't have it there is a chance they don't legally own that bike. Possession of a bike does not mean ownership.

If someone does not have at least a certificate of origin I will not buy their bike. A "Bill of sale" is no more than a worthless piece of paper and doesn't mean anything. The bike could be stolen or still owned by the bank.
downard254
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downard254 10/5/2015 7:07am
10/5/2015 7:07am
bigwavedave wrote:
In AZ, you need an offroad sticker and plate to ride some areas, which requires a title. Might want to check your state out.
^This, same in Ohio. You can't get an offroad sticker to ride on state land without a title first. I always try to get a title. I hate to pay the sales tax, but it is what it is. I'd bet that a lot of bikes for sale that don't have a title are that way because the second owner of the bike never wanted to pay the sales tax so they didn't bother to transfer the title. Then they lost it or something, then it passes on, and on, and on. While it may not be stolen, in Ohio it can be a bitch to get a new title for the bike. I sold an RM 250, 1990 vintage, and back then they didn't issue titles. I had the MSO and sold the bike. The new owner couldn't get a state offroad sticker because he didn't have the title. I had to go back with the MSO and secure a title, then get it transferred to the new owner. It was like dealing with the CIA even though my name was on the MSO and I had the original bill of sale.
I just recently bought an RM125 for my son, no title, but I paid less because of that and I never intend to hit anything but private land and closed course tracks.
Micahdogg
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Micahdogg 10/5/2015 7:58am
10/5/2015 7:58am
Around here, most cops don't just run VIN's without wanting a little information...like where the bike is. Because if its stolen, they want to recover it. So you can jam someone up pretty quickly by talking to the police. My advice would be that if you have a good feeling about it and the seller is willing to vouch for it via bill of sale, thats good enough. If for some reason it would turn up stolen, at least the financial burden can be shifted back to the person you bought it from. Otherwise you are the one who is up a creek.

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