How far back in time would a current Novice on a 08 450

i thought of this while watching bobbym's '83 mxdn vid... and i was thinking at that race.

[quote="Robert":2jja54b6]have to go back to beat a factory pro? 1977 would be my guess.[/quote:2jja54b6]

Totally depends on the track. On a '77 track, the novice wouldn't stand a chance. On a modern day track, it might be a race....or maybe not.

MR

On the identical equipment? The novice would not stand a chance. Against any pro from the 70s on. A "true" expert's skills would quickly compensate for the lack of familiarity with the track/equipment (he'd be going, "Whoa! This is f'in cool!", while the nervous-class front-runner would still be nervous class, front-runner or not.

Good topic. This oughta go at least 4 pages.

I don't think I beat anyone that I didn't beat then, unless the HP difference would make up for something. In fact, if we're racing 70's tracks, I might drop a spot or two, since it was a lot easier to turn something lower to the ground.

Ok, that's not quite fair. If the track is a washboard, I'd move up some spots for sure, just from being able to pin it everywhere without getting as tired.

I would guess early 90's. The stock suspension and power delivery is pretty good. Add that to all the sandbaggers this sport has today and you have a 1992 Champion.

Good Post.

I have a lot of thoughts on this.

My opinion is 1977.

...and could some English Major tell me when to use "alot" and "a lot"?

I'd say a lot of the time I don't think it's correct to use alot.

[quote="guyb":mn14qoa0]I'd say a lot of the time I don't think it's correct to use alot.[/quote:mn14qoa0]

gullible isn't even a word in the dictionary.















i spelled it wrong to prove my point.

A novice? I say a novice nowadays even with modern machines, couldn't beat a pro/expert of any era!! A "C/junior" class rider, might challenge the 60s pros and I said challenge, not beat. Novice in my books=beginner. A few years back, I was watching the Yamaha Race of Champions, those guys could still throw it down!! I'm talking Lechien, Glover, Pomeroy, Howerton, Jim Holley!!! Good topic though.

We forget that the sport has become a little pussifed, the old schoolers would probably put the novice on his ass in the first turn.

[quote="teggers":3fnnm6dx]Good Post.

I have a lot of thoughts on this.

My opinion is 1977.

...and could some English Major tell me when to use "alot" and "a lot"?[/quote:3fnnm6dx]

It's always "a lot". "Alot" isn't a word.

I don't think a novice from today would beat a pro from any era. Watch "One Chance to Win", those guys were nuts.

[quote="motoxistence":1zvrg7iy][quote="teggers":1zvrg7iy]Good Post.

I have a lot of thoughts on this.

My opinion is 1977.

...and could some English Major tell me when to use "alot" and "a lot"?[/quote:1zvrg7iy]

It's always "a lot". "Alot" isn't a word.

I don't think a novice from today would beat a pro from any era. Watch "One Chance to Win", those guys were nuts.[/quote:1zvrg7iy]
I didn't think alot was a word either, but I taught 4th grade last year and it was one of our spelling words.

I've thought about this as well, if I went back in time, coudl I be a God amongst men? " title="Laughing"> I'd say to the guy who said the early 90's, not a chance. You'd have to go back to the early 80s or the 70s in my opinion, and it'd have to be a decent C rider, who actually has some skills.

A current novice rider on a 450 would not beat any era pro rider on say their era 250cc.

The beginner class at the 4-Stroke Nationals, the top 3 guys were doing the uphill triple right before the catchers mitt at Cycleranch. And that was the beginner class, the Novice guys were hauling.

I dunno what are you guys live in, but around here in Texas we have some damn fast "Novices".

The top novice guys at LL on an 08 450 could go back around 1988 and win.
The local novice guys you'd have to go back 5 or 10 years more.


There is a BIG difference between local novice and LL novice.

na wouldn't happen.

1. OEM's would walk out and force the ref to DQ the bike because of it having to much aluminum.
or
2. No one signed his go past A class free card and in those days they would have followed the rules. (Roger wouldn't never alllow that stuff) " title="Smile">


Of course in those days no one would know about it since this kind of chat box wasn't around yet.


" title="Smile">

I was at an old school track a few weeks ago that has a few step ups and gets pretty rough. There was a guy there on a 79 or 80 YZ 400 and he was fast as any 450 there. Had no trouble with any of the jumps.
I think you would have to go back to pre 75 to see any difference, but a novice will never beat a PRO.

it for sure would have to be farther back than '77. Do you guys seriously think todays novice could be Hannah, Howerton, Marty Smith. Come on!!

Even back around 73-75 you've got Tripes, Weinert, Lackey, although that's where I think the equipment might start to play a role. Maybe

Back in 2001 I remember when this one dude showed up at a race on his XR and proceeded to school everyone. The guy was so smooth and made it look effortless on that thing - scrubbing jumps and more. It really does go back to skill and not so much the machine.

[img:2judpeju]http://photobucket.com/albums/b277/database2/st-mx-series.jpg[/img:2jud…]

Early 70's, at the minimum, if the track lent itself to the equipment advantage. And, that would only be for a lap or two, at best. Once the equipment hit the mid/late 70's, the bike's advantage wouldn't be that great.

Take todays sky-race tracks out of the equation.

On the tracks from the 70's the top Pro's from the Marty Smith era onward would smoke a novice on a 450. Corner speed is always more important than power.
A good Intermediate on a 450 might give them a run though? but the Pro's would take the guy on the 450 out first chance they got.

A novice might do well in points over a season if only for the reliability of todays bikes, that is if a hard core Pro like Rex Staten didn't run over you and brake your legs or somethin " title="Laughing">

If you take the tracks out of it...and run the bikes on the more hare scrambles style tracks, you'd probably have to reach down into the early 60's before you saw any advantage. And, I wouldn't count on the novice winning any motos...it'd be more like a hot lap and that's about it.

what average novice from today (or any day) is gonna last in 2 40 min+ 2 motos

[quote="Dean":2hwbelkx]what average novice from today (or any day) is gonna last in 2 40 min+ 2 motos[/quote:2hwbelkx]

There are only about 10 pros today that could do that.

hmmmmm interesting topic and something I have thought about. When I recently broke in a new bike at a local track (ET) back in December, I was putting around slowly as they had changed the track tremendously and made it a lot more technical (re. deadly). I could not believe how fast these local kids were since the last time I was there (yr or so). They were flying over me fully whipped. I couldn’t get off the track fast enough….. lol

Lots of variables here and I agree there is a big difference between a LL’s Novice and a local Novice depending on what state you are from. The stuff kids do these days is mind boggling and scary at the same time, it’s no wonder the injury’s and deaths have gone up.

If you were to bring a Pro from the 70’s through the early 80’s and they had never been on a modern day track loaded with doubles, triples etc they would freak out and get waxed. If that same Pro had continued to ride throughout his life then no it would not happen as he would have adapted to the changes.

Now you put a local guy on modern day equipment and bring in Mr Wizard and his time machine back to the late 70’s if he was an LL’s Novice than I believe could beat a 70’s Pro.

Like any sport the advances are amazing. As an example I remember when in drag racing breaking 200mph was unheard of, now they are going what 325 all day long in a ¼ mile! Now that is the machinery and technology side of things.

Go back to track and field records 30 yrs ago. The 100 yd dash and six minute mile. The advances that the human body and training techniques has made are just as amazing.
Just my dime......

[quote:q4o8qvwl]Go back to track and field records 30 yrs ago. The 100 yd dash and six minute mile. The advances that the human body and training techniques has made are just as amazing.
[/quote:q4o8qvwl]

not to mention the medication.

[quote="wardy":3b6ijtqu][quote:3b6ijtqu]Go back to track and field records 30 yrs ago. The 100 yd dash and six minute mile. The advances that the human body and training techniques has made are just as amazing.
[/quote:3b6ijtqu]

not to mention the medication.[/quote:3b6ijtqu]

lol yea that too! " title="Laughing">

I used to go pretty good in the 80s and about 3 years ago I went out to a local track were I live and rode my friends beat 91 DR250 with a head light and all. The track was an old school type track, no big doubles or supercross type stuff Purely old school outdoor style. I schooled the novices that were there on new bikes and had an epic battle with a local B rider on a KTM 450. I rode the crap out of that bike. The B rider made up every excuse in the book why he couldnt pull me. It was fun.