Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
That hit was brutal. Mitch Payton's reaction said it all.
Both kitchen and smith have impact related back-rib injuries. At what point to we make the Astars system, or something like an RXR mandatory?
Track safety and supercross can only go so far before we're oval racing.
You know, NASCAR and other forms of racing can go faster, and build faster machines. There are rules to keep the speeds down. Most riders that actually rode 125 and 250 2 strokes will flat out say. They were slower compared to todays bikes. So the question you'd have to ask, is the speed worth it? Just because these new 4 stroke 250 and 450 bikes can be this fast, is it right? Hell, the ev bike will be even faster.
So, do we need them as fast as possible? Or, do we need to limit how fast the bikes are? I'd personally say, make the sound 80db and it will fall into place. You wouldn't necessarily need to slow them down, sound would do that. But no ecm tricks for the 80db.
Plus, the start devices allow for faster take off from the line, thus higher end of run top speed. Additionally, the start devices allow for more racers to get good starts, so more chance of pileup.
There are just a few things that help add to the injured list. Jmho
125's had plenty of first turn crashes.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Free shipping: VITALMX
So if we moved displacement to 125 and 250 wouldn't the injuries be the same since more 250 riders are injured than 450? Tomac and Jett's crash had nothing to do with speed. Neither did Levi's for that matter....those type of crashes have always happened when a kicker is not hit right. It was rider error. Moto has been dangerous forever. Kids get hurt on 65's and 80's so unless we go to CRF 110's and everything dressed like the Michelin man it is what it is......outside of safety equipment. That's where the advancements can happen and we have seen it with helmets improving ten fold in the last decade or so.
The reduced whoops and dragon backs has been the dumbest change yet.
Dude I totally agree with you. I really think the Astars system ( and I'm sure others that are being developed that we don't know about) are the future for potentially having a new piece of mandatory equipment.
Tracks can only be made so "safe". Also, what's safe for one rider isn't for another. Pastrana can probably blitz whoops at an elite level right this second, but wouldn't want to do a triple into a step on step off.
If you took Kitchen for instance on a 125, would he have been going that fast or trying to do the same thing? Hard to say. Just in many cases, a 125 will not do what a 450 does. A 250f will. We also know for a fact, a 125 is slower than a 250f by quite a bit. As far as Jett, hard to say as well. Let's say no holeshot device. Would they have been going slower at the exact same spot? Would a 250 2 stroke be slower at that exact moment? Were all the suspensions unlocked from the device at said time? Again, don't know. Just spit balling things. But it's a fact that 125/250 are slower, and holeshot devices speed up take off and end of straight speed at start.
its not possible but limiting spring rate would be interesting
Limiting spring rate? What would that accomplish? Sounds like a huge safety issue.
Mitch and Roger probably have gone from just industry buddies to serious drinking buddies…🙃
Hey Hayden. Not likely. Thanks for reaching out.
could be yeah. limits speed and/or would force some track design changes. not seriously sugessting it, just intersting to think about. at the end of the day, they need to slow down the tracks. the sand stuff is pretty good imo, which actually itonically probably DOES lead to softer setups in some cases.
Do you know who you're talking to? 🤣
It's way worse now than in the past.... big injuries are far more common.
Tracks with no margin for error, overpowered bikes, higher speeds...height/distance of jumps.
I don’t know, I’ve done what Levi did on a stock 250F in 2007. You hit something thinking the rear spring will hold and it just goes too deep and hucks you. I don’t think it has anything to do with bikes or track design. As he said, he just was feeling good and got greedy. I hope he makes a full recovery quickly.
When I watch SX from the 80s and even some 90s it sure seems like they were going slower. I get the bikes where lower tech but maybe we need look at speed a little more.
Come on, a little light hearted relief never hurt. I thought it was funny as.
I've never fully been onboard with this but the increase of injuries really does at least beg the question.
With the proliferation of dyno's and the amazing work done with ecu's these days. Maybe they should introduce class power and torque limits for SX.
Lots of different types of racing now do this.
250 could be 40 whp and some lower torque limit.
450 could be 52 Whp and whatever torque.
This way, the manufacturers can keep promoting and shipping 250/450 bikes to the public and for AMA outdoors because that's what the majority of us want. It would also potentially make a 350 more competitive (if that is desired or not, I'm still unsure).
Pit Row
Yes, but they're at slower speeds.
If we set HP and torque limits, the manufacturers will have little room or reason to innovate.
What F1 does is lower the maximum displacement every so often to bring the speeds down to a reasonable level.
That allows the manufacturers and after market companies to innovate to get the most out of the engines.
I've written up how the sport can transition smoothly across several years a few times. If this becomes serious, I'll write it up again (I don't believe I still have the text).
The fact is that it would be good for the manufacturers, because eventually everyone will need a new bike, and for the industry because those bikes will need graphics, pipes, bars, etc...
My plan allows ample time for amateur racers to transition too.
Many series do this. V8 Supercars is another.
Why would they need to transition to anything when the outdoor series internationally and locally with the US outdoors are fine?
The general buying public are happy with current classes. (2 stroke holdouts aside).
This is only for 1 National domestic sub series......its not the only place 250/450's race.
Changing marketing and adjusting the whole international system across different manufacturers to different cc's for one series is just not needed.
Dungey and Mosiman broke their necks in outdoors. Outdoors needs an adjustment as well.
This should happen worldwide.
It would take some negotiation between all of the manufacturers, and the series' owners to agree on rules and timelines, then it would be game on.
It wouldn't make sense for manufacturers to make different bikes for pros than they do for the rest of us. Besides, I'm assuming amateurs would want the same bikes as the pros.
why in the world do they run locked differentials?!
Just my two cents but it’s more than just a horsepower issue. Riders got hurt less in 90’s supercross for a number of reasons. For one, riders now are used to insanely good suspension and have a confidence in it that they never could have dreamed of in the 90’s. Two, everyone is training at a way higher level than ever before. From the RC days and on, the bar got raised. Yeah MC is the king, but those guys weren’t pushing the absolute limit of physical training, diet, practice, etc trying to shave 10ths off every single lap. On top of all that, the tracks now are insane. There is zero room for error. The rhythms on some of these tracks are absolutely insane. It doesn’t matter if you’re on a 125 or a 450, if you lose your timing on some of them, you’re getting hurt. Plus, the whoops now are way bigger than they used to be. Sure they used to be an entire lane in length but now they’re twice as tall and spaced way further apart. Even the whoops feom the mid 2000’s were smaller. Every aspect of the sport has been pushed to the absolute limit. But to say it’s the power of the bikes as the sole issue would be false. Look at Tomac. His bike probably has more horsepower than any other bike on the track and rarely does he have any kind of wild crash. His injuries have mostly been freak incidents that could have happened on any bike and to anyone. I just don’t see how they can actually tame it down without killing a large portion of their viewership. If I remember correctly, the tracks getting more and more dangerous was Canard’s biggest talking point after his injuries and nobody really cared to listen.
He went full Roomba. His living room carpet has ruts in it by now.
Unless I have some bad number, back in the 80s NASCAR on superspeedways went way faster than they do now. Bill Elliott went over 210 mph in 1987 and this year’s pole sitter was 187 mph. The cars are safer, but I don’t see that as progression.
I was with you until you said whoops are way bigger now.
Levi was so fun to watch at Daytona. We were robbed. Sucks.
My opinion on the injury argument- the riders have got faster, the bikes have got faster, the tracks have got faster. Easiest thing to change is the tracks. Slow em down.
In 1970 they went faster than they do now. The superbird went over 200. There's even a simulation video on YouTube somewhere of the superbird running faster lap times than they do now. Im not a Nascar diehard but I do follow it on occasion. Makes me go wow that big heavy car went faster than these new cars with all the tec.
Post a reply to: Levi