Trump Zelensky

inflammable
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3/1/2025 7:57pm
As soon as Putin sent troops into Ukraine, he breached the security assurances given to Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons...https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

As soon as Putin sent troops into Ukraine, he breached the security assurances given to Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons...

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

image 1258

Sure, but Ukraine wasn't a member of NATO!

They were entertaining the idea enough for Putin to react. 

1
AZ35
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Peoria, AZ US
Fantasy
3/1/2025 8:07pm

^^^^ Ironic that every EU poster in this thread is calling Trump a Putin lover.

That's the guilt trip of daddy (USA) needs to come save us. Otherwise we are complicit in Russia taking over the world.

Why is it not strange to the people who live in the EU why the USA has military bases in their own Country?

WW2 ended 80 years ago, yet the USA is still funding the protection of pretty much every other (1st world) nation on earth?

I could not even imagine if Germany, GB, France, etc., had a military base INSIDE the USA.

But for all you non US residents, it is like you expect us to to keep funding the USA being the police for the entire world and happy to let us pay for it?

And then come on forums like this and say how we are abandoning Ukraine? 

How about the EU Countries realize that their taxpayers funds should go towards protecting their own borders? 

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lappedrider
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3/1/2025 8:56pm
BH_84 wrote:
I’ll tell you this for free. America is no longer the greatest country in the world. Great nations don’t turn their backs on their alliesGreat nations don’t...

I’ll tell you this for free. America is no longer the greatest country in the world. 

Great nations don’t turn their backs on their allies

Great nations don’t turn on their allies

Great nations don’t allow murderous dictators to invade and kill their allies 

Great nations don’t turn their backs on the rest of the world

You’re no better than Russia or China at this point. 

 

I’ll add, we often call the President of the US the “Leader of the Free World”.  We do this because the President usually commands a coalition of multinational western forces.  President Trump seems to be headed to be the first US President in modern times that is not the “Leader of the Free World.”   

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13
inflammable
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3/1/2025 9:07pm
BH_84 wrote:
I’ll tell you this for free. America is no longer the greatest country in the world. Great nations don’t turn their backs on their alliesGreat nations don’t...

I’ll tell you this for free. America is no longer the greatest country in the world. 

Great nations don’t turn their backs on their allies

Great nations don’t turn on their allies

Great nations don’t allow murderous dictators to invade and kill their allies 

Great nations don’t turn their backs on the rest of the world

You’re no better than Russia or China at this point. 

 

I’ll add, we often call the President of the US the “Leader of the Free World”.  We do this because the President usually commands a coalition...

I’ll add, we often call the President of the US the “Leader of the Free World”.  We do this because the President usually commands a coalition of multinational western forces.  President Trump seems to be headed to be the first US President in modern times that is not the “Leader of the Free World.”   

Sounds good to me. The focus of the US President should be the USA. 

6
2

The Shop

JAFO92
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3/1/2025 9:08pm
Spoonguy wrote:
We've been paying Ukraine's way for at least three years. Ukraine asked for it and still wants more. Did they really expect no responsibility in this...

We've been paying Ukraine's way for at least three years. Ukraine asked for it and still wants more. Did they really expect no responsibility in this? My grandkids did not ask for this, yet will be paying for it. Lord knows a country like Ukraine will not/ can not ever pay to accept responsibility to defend itself. So does Ukraine expect the USA to pay Ukraine's way indefinitely, forever, no questions asked? Honest question, just keep shoveling money we don't have into that shithole? For what? Democracy, freedom? Like Ukraine has has a semblance of that anyway.

leonardo-dicaprio-clapping
11
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M1000
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3/1/2025 10:03pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2025 10:06pm

Trump and his team, unbelievable good ( even democrats Gabbard, Kennedy). These people are smart, and on a mission. Taxpayers have there backside. The American Tax payer has woken up. Uncle Sam FAFO music video…..The silent won’t be quiet now……

https://youtu.be/9GUtxZM9sI0?si=kpXN_ePhlYgUyHwo

6
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whethefakawe
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3/1/2025 11:03pm

As I said, Europe ended on 5 August 1914.

What was left after WW1 and WW2 (all self-induced) were the dregs of a drained gene pool that produced  a race with no self-respect or pride left, scared of their own shadows and needing Daddy America to hold their chubby little hands and settle their petty little squabbles.

Embarrassing! 🤣

Here are the numbers:

USA population 330 million         USA GDP $30 Trillion (or E29 Trillion)

EU population 450 million            EU GDP $18 Trillion 

Plus:

UK population 69 million              UK GDP  $3.4 Trillion

 

Add it up, the EU including UK has a population of 519 million people and a GDP of $21.4 Trillion.

Germany and France combined have a population of 152 million, and a GDP of $8.1 trillion

Russia has a population of 144 million, and a GDP of $2.1 Trillion

 

Europe has 3.6 times as many people, and a GDP 10 times larger than Russia -- and they need Daddy America to "lead" them, and pay for their sex changes and travel and meal expenses.....and provide "security guarantees". Wipe their tushies too, after they shit themsleves every time Putin sneezes.

PATHETIC! 

PITIFUL! 

Cowardly for one, and parasitic for two. Trump is right, Europe has been ripping off America for 80 years.

Hey Euros -- give yer balls a tug and see if you can find any vestige of pride or self-respect deep, deep down inside yourselves. Fight your own battles, Daddy America won't always be there to take care of you, thweetie-pieth.... 

And all you US poofs waving Ulkraine flags and wearing T-shirts saying Slava Ukraina and such bullshit...... either put your money in your mouths and go over there and be a front-line soldier. ............. or shut the fuck up about it and hide under your beds like the Euros  🤣🤣

"I fart in your general direction you silly Ke-niggits".  (Monty Python, 1975).

 

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8
kongols
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3/2/2025 1:05am
4
13
3/2/2025 2:13am
BH_84 wrote:
I’ll tell you this for free. America is no longer the greatest country in the world. Great nations don’t turn their backs on their alliesGreat nations don’t...

I’ll tell you this for free. America is no longer the greatest country in the world. 

Great nations don’t turn their backs on their allies

Great nations don’t turn on their allies

Great nations don’t allow murderous dictators to invade and kill their allies 

Great nations don’t turn their backs on the rest of the world

You’re no better than Russia or China at this point. 

 

I’ll add, we often call the President of the US the “Leader of the Free World”.  We do this because the President usually commands a coalition...

I’ll add, we often call the President of the US the “Leader of the Free World”.  We do this because the President usually commands a coalition of multinational western forces.  President Trump seems to be headed to be the first US President in modern times that is not the “Leader of the Free World.”   

Leader of the free world…. who hasnt sold out to UN/WEF mandated muslim-subcontinent invasion. 
USA/Trump admin is standing up to the unelected global govt. 

 

9
3
3/2/2025 2:15am
As I said, Europe ended on 5 August 1914.What was left after WW1 and WW2 (all self-induced) were the dregs of a drained gene pool that...

As I said, Europe ended on 5 August 1914.

What was left after WW1 and WW2 (all self-induced) were the dregs of a drained gene pool that produced  a race with no self-respect or pride left, scared of their own shadows and needing Daddy America to hold their chubby little hands and settle their petty little squabbles.

Embarrassing! 🤣

Here are the numbers:

USA population 330 million         USA GDP $30 Trillion (or E29 Trillion)

EU population 450 million            EU GDP $18 Trillion 

Plus:

UK population 69 million              UK GDP  $3.4 Trillion

 

Add it up, the EU including UK has a population of 519 million people and a GDP of $21.4 Trillion.

Germany and France combined have a population of 152 million, and a GDP of $8.1 trillion

Russia has a population of 144 million, and a GDP of $2.1 Trillion

 

Europe has 3.6 times as many people, and a GDP 10 times larger than Russia -- and they need Daddy America to "lead" them, and pay for their sex changes and travel and meal expenses.....and provide "security guarantees". Wipe their tushies too, after they shit themsleves every time Putin sneezes.

PATHETIC! 

PITIFUL! 

Cowardly for one, and parasitic for two. Trump is right, Europe has been ripping off America for 80 years.

Hey Euros -- give yer balls a tug and see if you can find any vestige of pride or self-respect deep, deep down inside yourselves. Fight your own battles, Daddy America won't always be there to take care of you, thweetie-pieth.... 

And all you US poofs waving Ulkraine flags and wearing T-shirts saying Slava Ukraina and such bullshit...... either put your money in your mouths and go over there and be a front-line soldier. ............. or shut the fuck up about it and hide under your beds like the Euros  🤣🤣

"I fart in your general direction you silly Ke-niggits".  (Monty Python, 1975).

 

You are going to hurt some feelings of the SoyBoys.

6
2
Spoonguy
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3/2/2025 4:43am
kongols wrote:

So, Ukraine doesn't have to pay for their defense? Is that what they want, everything free? Wouldn't that be nice? I've never asked for anything in my life for free, and we have a whole nation wanting billions of dollars? And they don't want to be accountable for any of it either? Actually, this isn't just Ukraine, it is the whole damn world wants the USA to defend and support them for free. This whole bullshit that Ukraine is fighting this noble fight against tyranny is such a load of crap anyway, the average Ukrainian's life would probably improve with Russian rule. And the heroic leader of Ukraine, Zelensky, is a military draft dodger in his own country as well.

10
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Spoonguy
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3/2/2025 4:58am Edited Date/Time 3/2/2025 4:59am
Sunhouse wrote:
I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It’s getting pretty out of hand.First off: Ukraine was invaded. Putin invaded Ukraine - sovreign state in Europe. The...

I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It’s getting pretty out of hand.

First off: Ukraine was invaded. Putin invaded Ukraine - sovreign state in Europe. The US has guaranteed Europe’s safety against Soviet/ Russian aggression. That is why there are US troops in other NATO countries in the first place. I agree that European politicians have been lazy and have lived off of the US forces - no doubt. Should European NATO countries get their s**t together and spend more to contribute? Absolutely! More than they have! It’s a disgrace how much they have been leveriging off of the US. No doubt. BUT: when the threat becomes real and Russia is acting on the threat, there is no reason for anyone not to act. We have to remember: the Ukrainians have been fighting against a much larger force, and they have been putting up a hell of a fight. I’m so impressed by their fight against Russia. Give them weapons and they will fight the war that will bring the threat to its knees. Russia is now at a 20% inflation rate, and can not keep up the war without hurting its own economy. Putin’s wish to restore the Russian and Slavik empire is going down the drain. And it is Ukraine doing the fighting and the losses for us. And they want to! Imagine that: they are not cowards! They WANT to kick the Russians out of their country, and all they ask for is supplies to do so - they will bear the losses on their generation.

Russia has now not only depleted their own military reserves, but have had to ask the shittiest nation on earth to help them: North Korea. They had to get sub-par ammunition to the front lines and get North Korean forces to fight along side them. How far can you sink?

All the while Zelensky is not wearing a suit and tie to show solidarity with the fighting forces. When he was offered a sweet escape he said: «I don’t need a ride, I need weapons to fight them». He’s in an exetential war for all of the free world and dresses the part, then Trumps Admin has the audacity to tell him he isn’t dressed for meeting at the White House? What kind of degenerate thing is that to say?

Sure, the US doesn’t have to support them anymore. But that also means Europe can no longer rely on US to guarantee safety. We can not trust the US to honor their guarantees for the countries next in line: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. NATO is no longer trusting its partners and may be dissolved. Europe will no longer believe the US is the leader of the free world anymore. What will happen next is a rush to please the 3rd world where the resourses are. 

The litmus test is: who is on Russia’s side? North Korea, partly China and other shitholes. And that is who the Republican Party are now supporting. Never in my life did I think they would be such cowards. The same people who were happy to go to war over principels and freedom. They are now siding with dictatorships and Communism. Just to get temporary good deals. It’s a disgrace and I think more highly of the average American. 

Also; you do not give billions to a corrupt system. Your gave billions of material aid in military equipment. Of which half of it went to yourself - to replenish military equipment given away. Then partly for humanitarian aid. This constant reiteration of «no one knows where it went» does not align with your own designated support nor with what is seen on the ground. It’s getting pathetic! I was positive towards the new administration: getting rid of many soft issues and stupid liberal talking points. But this is next level playing with fire and undemocratic values. It’s sad to see, and will only bring Europe closer and the US farther away. Trade will diminish and Europe will not entertain American tolls or lack of acountability. This is a tough blow to Western values and cooperation.

We are litterally talking of pandering to a leader who is killing his opposition, killing them with poison and nuclear waste in NATO countries, supporting the West’s biggest enemy, and invading a sovereign country in the historically bloodiest continent on earth. And Trump thinks he can make a deal… without guarantees. It’s Dunning Küger in practice

OldTech wrote:
Ok fine. But you need to be honest, Russia did not invade just" because ". They were provoked by a corrupt Ukraine that was going to...

Ok fine. But you need to be honest, Russia did not invade just" because ". They were provoked by a corrupt Ukraine that was going to allow NATO to build bases and put missiles on its border, and they warned against it for a long time. Zelensky walked away from the negotiations, and we've had it with him.

Sunhouse wrote:
How is that? They were invaded in 2014? Nothing happened but some minor sanctions. Russia wanted their on-lease harbour to the Red Sea and prepared for...

How is that? They were invaded in 2014? Nothing happened but some minor sanctions. Russia wanted their on-lease harbour to the Red Sea and prepared for an all out assault on Ukraine to get all the territory. And you’re happy to let them have it in alliance with North Korea?

Are you happy with US influence in Europe diminishing? All that produce and US business going to Russian dictatorship and North Korea? The worlds primary source of grain going to a dictatorship? How is that going to affect your prices? You won’t even have to buy it from them, it will still be in Russians hands to decide. A dictatorship that kills opposition by poison, nuclear waste and throwing people off tall buildings. But hey - if you’ve got a thick wallet you can afford it. Even if taxes are low👍🏻

It wasn't that terribly long ago the USSR controlled Europe up to Berlin, it didn't affect this country's prosperity much at all. As a matter of fact, now that there is freedom in Eastern Europe the USA has more little helpless piglets wanting to suck on the titties of our productivity. How many billions has just shithole Ukraine's "freedom" cost my grandkids? And please spare us the whole evil empire bullshit of Russia and North Korea, their governments and finances are more fucked up then the USA's, they are unable to prosecute war in the Ukraine properly what kind of threat are they to international "freedom", if there is such a thing. As far as a nation killing people "by poison, nuclear waste, and throwing people off tall buildings", don't be so vague, which country are you talking about - it could be so many. It is unbelievable to me after all the film footage, novels, documents and such about the atrocities of war there are still people out there that think we should sponsor such endeavors. Fucking ghouls.

4
3
early
Posts
9872
Joined
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Location
University Heights, OH US
3/2/2025 5:19am
R66 wrote:

How much money was Musk asking for?

(At least he was wearing a jacket)

Zelensky looked like he was there to fix the plumbing, or clean the floors. 

early wrote:
This talking point is just a means to an end. Same thing with Vance claiming Zhelensky never said thank you. Vance was waiting for the right...

This talking point is just a means to an end. Same thing with Vance claiming Zhelensky never said thank you. Vance was waiting for the right moment to interject that line. The whole deal is a setup to give the US cover for ending their support.

The Cold War is coming to an end, Russia are the victors.

TeamGreen wrote:
Wow. Damn. I mean, dude…really? I was gonna say that your closing statement…“The Cold War is coming to an end, Russia are the victors.“Well...

Wow. Damn. I mean, dude…really? I was gonna say that your closing statement…

“The Cold War is coming to an end, Russia are the victors.“

Well, I was gonna say you sound like an Ignorant Teen-aged Drama Queen; but, I didn’t want to offend…

The Ignorant

Teen-agers

Drama 

Queens (of any flavor)

No worries. I get it. It’s the internet and it’s the place where people come to show us exactly where they fit in intellectually. 

I’ll offer you this, my angry and uninformed friend, go look at a map of the former Soviet Union and look at Russia, today…along with all those free and independent democratic nations that were once part of said Soviet Union (oh, wait, are they NATO members, too?! No Way!!!) …and, then…after you’ve discovered just a little bit of reality…

You can come back & tell us when The Cold War actually ended based on what you’ve learned…or not. 

You Tried To Make Up Some Really Stupid Shit Up.©️

Which earns you this…

You Can Not Make This Shit Up.©️ (I think we’ll just copyright the entire conjoining statement for future use) 

Next-up: we’ll deal with the leftist-geniuses telling us what Trump is doing and why. 

America is adopting Russian style politics by the choice of it citizens.

Our government is becoming less and less dictated by the rules of the Republic and more and more dictated by mafia style power brokering, loyalty and bribery. We the People are choosing this.

We are siding with authoritarian dictatorships and straying from our post WWII allies of the liberal democracies of Europe and the Pacific rim. We the People are choosing this.

We are reducing our sphere of influence around the world. The United States of America will less and less be looked at as the gold standard in partnerships and governance. The volatility of democracy will be seen as a liability in comparison to the steady guidance of a strong leader given a lifetime to execute a vision for their nation. We the People are choosing this.

Weaker nations will be seen as subservient to the will of stronger nations to the point they cannot be trusted with their own governance to ensure cooperation. Whether you stay free or become the 51st state will not be an easy choice, the coercion may involve tariffs, drones, or Bitcoin. The Empire must be respected, the Empire must grow, We the People are choosing this.

Women must fulfill their role as mother, nothing is more important. They must be squeezed and shamed into devoting their life to the children. Their welfare in the home and in society is secondary, the Empire must grow and the men have needs, We the People are choosing this.

Power is to be weilded, history is written by the victors, and a war can be won by firing one shot when faced with vandals at the gate. We the People are choosing this. 

6
17
Spoonguy
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Mc Kean, PA US
3/2/2025 6:50am

All this nonsense of comparing any sort of past conflict with Ukraine's situation is so much grasping at straws to make weak points and to convince yourselves it's ok to tax Americans to subsidize foreigners. Any conflict or war of historical significance is a unique situation of its own, and not relatable to the next battle. Communism is done, children know this. WW2 was 80 years ago or so, a child knows this a well. The USA still has politicians stoking the fears of these conflicts to churn up business for the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everyone about. Every piss ant dictator that comes along is labeled as the next Hitler, and if we don't "stand up to them", it's appeasement. Give me a fucking break. Ukraine is nothing more than this, other than Ukraine is paying nothing for it, we are. And we are broke. The USA's political policy is to scare the shit out it's feeble minded citizens so they do not mind writing multi-billion-dollar checks to fight these dumb ass wars against any alleged "tyrannical" power that comes up that in reality are most times in desperate financial, political, and societal shape. Avoiding financing foreign wars is not isolationism, it is wisdom. Right now, this moment in some American city, on our shores, American teenage gang members are killing one another. Yet we fret about Ukraine?

11
4
OldTech
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Decatur , AL US
3/2/2025 8:00am
Sunhouse wrote:
I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It’s getting pretty out of hand.First off: Ukraine was invaded. Putin invaded Ukraine - sovreign state in Europe. The...

I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It’s getting pretty out of hand.

First off: Ukraine was invaded. Putin invaded Ukraine - sovreign state in Europe. The US has guaranteed Europe’s safety against Soviet/ Russian aggression. That is why there are US troops in other NATO countries in the first place. I agree that European politicians have been lazy and have lived off of the US forces - no doubt. Should European NATO countries get their s**t together and spend more to contribute? Absolutely! More than they have! It’s a disgrace how much they have been leveriging off of the US. No doubt. BUT: when the threat becomes real and Russia is acting on the threat, there is no reason for anyone not to act. We have to remember: the Ukrainians have been fighting against a much larger force, and they have been putting up a hell of a fight. I’m so impressed by their fight against Russia. Give them weapons and they will fight the war that will bring the threat to its knees. Russia is now at a 20% inflation rate, and can not keep up the war without hurting its own economy. Putin’s wish to restore the Russian and Slavik empire is going down the drain. And it is Ukraine doing the fighting and the losses for us. And they want to! Imagine that: they are not cowards! They WANT to kick the Russians out of their country, and all they ask for is supplies to do so - they will bear the losses on their generation.

Russia has now not only depleted their own military reserves, but have had to ask the shittiest nation on earth to help them: North Korea. They had to get sub-par ammunition to the front lines and get North Korean forces to fight along side them. How far can you sink?

All the while Zelensky is not wearing a suit and tie to show solidarity with the fighting forces. When he was offered a sweet escape he said: «I don’t need a ride, I need weapons to fight them». He’s in an exetential war for all of the free world and dresses the part, then Trumps Admin has the audacity to tell him he isn’t dressed for meeting at the White House? What kind of degenerate thing is that to say?

Sure, the US doesn’t have to support them anymore. But that also means Europe can no longer rely on US to guarantee safety. We can not trust the US to honor their guarantees for the countries next in line: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. NATO is no longer trusting its partners and may be dissolved. Europe will no longer believe the US is the leader of the free world anymore. What will happen next is a rush to please the 3rd world where the resourses are. 

The litmus test is: who is on Russia’s side? North Korea, partly China and other shitholes. And that is who the Republican Party are now supporting. Never in my life did I think they would be such cowards. The same people who were happy to go to war over principels and freedom. They are now siding with dictatorships and Communism. Just to get temporary good deals. It’s a disgrace and I think more highly of the average American. 

Also; you do not give billions to a corrupt system. Your gave billions of material aid in military equipment. Of which half of it went to yourself - to replenish military equipment given away. Then partly for humanitarian aid. This constant reiteration of «no one knows where it went» does not align with your own designated support nor with what is seen on the ground. It’s getting pathetic! I was positive towards the new administration: getting rid of many soft issues and stupid liberal talking points. But this is next level playing with fire and undemocratic values. It’s sad to see, and will only bring Europe closer and the US farther away. Trade will diminish and Europe will not entertain American tolls or lack of acountability. This is a tough blow to Western values and cooperation.

We are litterally talking of pandering to a leader who is killing his opposition, killing them with poison and nuclear waste in NATO countries, supporting the West’s biggest enemy, and invading a sovereign country in the historically bloodiest continent on earth. And Trump thinks he can make a deal… without guarantees. It’s Dunning Küger in practice

borg wrote:
Most of that I can agree with. The US does not have clean hands in this situation but we have given a lot to help Ukraine...

Most of that I can agree with. The US does not have clean hands in this situation but we have given a lot to help Ukraine. Now that I have seen the Russian demands, there is no way that Ukraine can accept it. That is also clear. I can also see that Trumps administration does not want to keep this going and wants to end it. So walk away then. Let Europe deal with it. If Trump wants to wash his hands of this then do it and quit talking about weaseling in on mineral rights. Next it will be condos or some shit. 

I would actually be for keeping up with some amount of military aid as long as Europe doubles down and vows to put an end to this by whatever means necessary. Ukraine cannot do it alone.  Although they have put up one hell of a fight. As far as NATO goes, the US doesn't need to be involved anymore.  The Soviet Union is gone. Europe needs to defend itself now and should have no real problem with a crippled country like Russia.

Sunhouse wrote:
I agree with most of what your said. This is mostly a European issuse for now. But if Russia takes Ukraine, the world is worse off...

I agree with most of what your said. This is mostly a European issuse for now. But if Russia takes Ukraine, the world is worse off. it allows a dicator and North Korea to boast about their prowess and where to next? This is what Europe is concerened about. Also, that the strong European and US collaboration will be halting. He made it public and all dictators in the world are looking to get their deal as well.

Now: I don’t disagree that Europe hasn’t been the ally it should be. But you also have to recognise that US business thrives partly because it sells to the continent. That is partly why The US has become the worlds leading nation in the first place. Sure; you get access to very lucrative markets, but it also comes with a guarantee. And if the US no longer wants to uphold those guarantees, Europe will go elsewhere, such as internal markets. It will have to ramp up its industrial capabilities, but at the same time that will take away from US business. European arms are more than capable of dealing with Russia technologically, it’s just a matter of increasing it.


So when America is playing not as an ally, but an ally to dictatorships, it leaves Europe with no choice. They can no longer rely on America to be a partner in the Free World. The fight against tyrany is left to Europe, and America seems OK to approach tyrnaies for the sake of a short term deal. And that seems - pardon my French - very counter intuitive to what J.D Vance was trying to tell Europe on his visit last week.

«You don’t respect freedom of speech», so we will alligne with two nations that don’t. That is seriously insane. Either you support Western values or you approach those that don’t, only to get a temporary deal. 

Okay, I watched a great race drank lots of beer and had a break. What direction does Europe expect to go with this? It's been three years of lots of money and people dead, and Zelensky is losing ground. Besides making emotional decisions I see three options, a deal, defeat or escalation. Personally, I believe this current leader of Ukraine doesn't care who he drags into his conflict and is about as stable as a bag of cats on meth.

11
2
JAFO92
Posts
5658
Joined
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Location
BFE, TX US
3/2/2025 8:18am
Spoonguy wrote:
All this nonsense of comparing any sort of past conflict with Ukraine's situation is so much grasping at straws to make weak points and to convince...

All this nonsense of comparing any sort of past conflict with Ukraine's situation is so much grasping at straws to make weak points and to convince yourselves it's ok to tax Americans to subsidize foreigners. Any conflict or war of historical significance is a unique situation of its own, and not relatable to the next battle. Communism is done, children know this. WW2 was 80 years ago or so, a child knows this a well. The USA still has politicians stoking the fears of these conflicts to churn up business for the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everyone about. Every piss ant dictator that comes along is labeled as the next Hitler, and if we don't "stand up to them", it's appeasement. Give me a fucking break. Ukraine is nothing more than this, other than Ukraine is paying nothing for it, we are. And we are broke. The USA's political policy is to scare the shit out it's feeble minded citizens so they do not mind writing multi-billion-dollar checks to fight these dumb ass wars against any alleged "tyrannical" power that comes up that in reality are most times in desperate financial, political, and societal shape. Avoiding financing foreign wars is not isolationism, it is wisdom. Right now, this moment in some American city, on our shores, American teenage gang members are killing one another. Yet we fret about Ukraine?

multiversx-x
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kongols
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3/2/2025 8:22am
Spoonguy wrote:
So, Ukraine doesn't have to pay for their defense? Is that what they want, everything free? Wouldn't that be nice? I've never asked for anything in...

So, Ukraine doesn't have to pay for their defense? Is that what they want, everything free? Wouldn't that be nice? I've never asked for anything in my life for free, and we have a whole nation wanting billions of dollars? And they don't want to be accountable for any of it either? Actually, this isn't just Ukraine, it is the whole damn world wants the USA to defend and support them for free. This whole bullshit that Ukraine is fighting this noble fight against tyranny is such a load of crap anyway, the average Ukrainian's life would probably improve with Russian rule. And the heroic leader of Ukraine, Zelensky, is a military draft dodger in his own country as well.

It`s the opposite. That`s why Zelensky proposed minerals deal. To pay for all this to USA.

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OldTech
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3/2/2025 8:36am
kongols wrote:

It`s the opposite. That`s why Zelensky proposed minerals deal. To pay for all this to USA.

Please define "all this". Does this include possible armed troops shooting at Russians? Does this mean soldiers from France and the UK in Ukraine? Or even better an entire coalition army pushing the Russians back home?

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kongols
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3/2/2025 8:43am
kongols wrote:

It`s the opposite. That`s why Zelensky proposed minerals deal. To pay for all this to USA.

OldTech wrote:
Please define "all this". Does this include possible armed troops shooting at Russians? Does this mean soldiers from France and the UK in Ukraine? Or even...

Please define "all this". Does this include possible armed troops shooting at Russians? Does this mean soldiers from France and the UK in Ukraine? Or even better an entire coalition army pushing the Russians back home?

No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a trillion.

 

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TXDirt
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3/2/2025 8:51am

I agree that Russian aggression in Ukraine is a significant global concern. However, the idea that America must always bear the heaviest burden for Europe's security while being second-guessed on how it conducts its foreign affairs is exactly why many Americans are growing frustrated with the transatlantic relationship.  

Yes, the U.S. benefits from trade with Europe—but let's not pretend this is a one-sided arrangement. The U.S. military presence and security guarantees have allowed Europe to enjoy decades of economic prosperity without shouldering the full cost of its own defense. While European countries certainly have the technological capability to counter Russia, the fact remains that many have chosen not to invest sufficiently in their own militaries, instead relying on the U.S. to act as the primary deterrent. If Europe is now realizing it must take its own defense more seriously, that’s not a sign of America abandoning its principles—it’s a long-overdue correction to an imbalance.  

As for diplomacy, America has always engaged with a wide range of nations, including those with differing values, because global leadership requires pragmatism. The alternative is moral absolutism that limits influence and pushes adversaries further into hostile alliances. Working with nations like India or Saudi Arabia on strategic interests does not mean endorsing every aspect of their governance, just as European nations continue to do business with China despite its human rights record.  

The real test of America’s leadership isn’t whether it always acts in lockstep with Europe but whether it prioritizes the long-term security and prosperity of its own people while maintaining a strong, values-driven presence on the world stage. Europe should meet America as a true partner—one willing to share the responsibility, not just the benefits, of a secure and free world.

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ns503
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3/2/2025 8:53am
Spoonguy wrote:
All this nonsense of comparing any sort of past conflict with Ukraine's situation is so much grasping at straws to make weak points and to convince...

All this nonsense of comparing any sort of past conflict with Ukraine's situation is so much grasping at straws to make weak points and to convince yourselves it's ok to tax Americans to subsidize foreigners. Any conflict or war of historical significance is a unique situation of its own, and not relatable to the next battle. Communism is done, children know this. WW2 was 80 years ago or so, a child knows this a well. The USA still has politicians stoking the fears of these conflicts to churn up business for the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everyone about. Every piss ant dictator that comes along is labeled as the next Hitler, and if we don't "stand up to them", it's appeasement. Give me a fucking break. Ukraine is nothing more than this, other than Ukraine is paying nothing for it, we are. And we are broke. The USA's political policy is to scare the shit out it's feeble minded citizens so they do not mind writing multi-billion-dollar checks to fight these dumb ass wars against any alleged "tyrannical" power that comes up that in reality are most times in desperate financial, political, and societal shape. Avoiding financing foreign wars is not isolationism, it is wisdom. Right now, this moment in some American city, on our shores, American teenage gang members are killing one another. Yet we fret about Ukraine?

Ukraine is paying nothing?

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3/2/2025 8:56am
As I said, Europe ended on 5 August 1914.What was left after WW1 and WW2 (all self-induced) were the dregs of a drained gene pool that...

As I said, Europe ended on 5 August 1914.

What was left after WW1 and WW2 (all self-induced) were the dregs of a drained gene pool that produced  a race with no self-respect or pride left, scared of their own shadows and needing Daddy America to hold their chubby little hands and settle their petty little squabbles.

Embarrassing! 🤣

Here are the numbers:

USA population 330 million         USA GDP $30 Trillion (or E29 Trillion)

EU population 450 million            EU GDP $18 Trillion 

Plus:

UK population 69 million              UK GDP  $3.4 Trillion

 

Add it up, the EU including UK has a population of 519 million people and a GDP of $21.4 Trillion.

Germany and France combined have a population of 152 million, and a GDP of $8.1 trillion

Russia has a population of 144 million, and a GDP of $2.1 Trillion

 

Europe has 3.6 times as many people, and a GDP 10 times larger than Russia -- and they need Daddy America to "lead" them, and pay for their sex changes and travel and meal expenses.....and provide "security guarantees". Wipe their tushies too, after they shit themsleves every time Putin sneezes.

PATHETIC! 

PITIFUL! 

Cowardly for one, and parasitic for two. Trump is right, Europe has been ripping off America for 80 years.

Hey Euros -- give yer balls a tug and see if you can find any vestige of pride or self-respect deep, deep down inside yourselves. Fight your own battles, Daddy America won't always be there to take care of you, thweetie-pieth.... 

And all you US poofs waving Ulkraine flags and wearing T-shirts saying Slava Ukraina and such bullshit...... either put your money in your mouths and go over there and be a front-line soldier. ............. or shut the fuck up about it and hide under your beds like the Euros  🤣🤣

"I fart in your general direction you silly Ke-niggits".  (Monty Python, 1975).

 

Don't hold back....tell us how you really feel! :o)

OldTech
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3/2/2025 9:00am
kongols wrote:
No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a...

No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a trillion.

 

Okay fine "peacekeepers". But you do realize that ANY nations uniforms that enter Ukraine to say unload trucks with gear become legitimate targets in Russia's view. British uniforms helping set up a missile system become targets. You see where I'm going with this? 

FastEddy
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3/2/2025 9:07am Edited Date/Time 3/2/2025 9:23am
kongols wrote:
No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a...

No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a trillion.

 

"USA is isolationist state now"

We are certainly taking a more Nationalistic approach so that our foreign policies can help us and not hurt us with any deal.   However ,we still have over 800 active military bases in more than 70 countries all around the world.  And have about 168 embassies representing us allover the world,

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TeamGreen
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3/2/2025 9:14am Edited Date/Time 3/2/2025 9:34am
kongols wrote:
Spoonguy wrote:
So, Ukraine doesn't have to pay for their defense? Is that what they want, everything free? Wouldn't that be nice? I've never asked for anything in...

So, Ukraine doesn't have to pay for their defense? Is that what they want, everything free? Wouldn't that be nice? I've never asked for anything in my life for free, and we have a whole nation wanting billions of dollars? And they don't want to be accountable for any of it either? Actually, this isn't just Ukraine, it is the whole damn world wants the USA to defend and support them for free. This whole bullshit that Ukraine is fighting this noble fight against tyranny is such a load of crap anyway, the average Ukrainian's life would probably improve with Russian rule. And the heroic leader of Ukraine, Zelensky, is a military draft dodger in his own country as well.

Spooner and fellow followers of history, I can truly appreciate your efforts against the scared and hysterical hordes of the made for tv minions…

But, let’s just go with their spin…their NARRATIVE…as fed to them by those that can’t… that won’t …read and acknowledge the agreements that are written for all to see…

“America is abandoning NATO”

“America is no better than China or Russia”

Fine. You’ve got it.

Now, you, the hysterical leftists and Canadians and foreign nations with allllllllllll the answers,…

YOU go fix this shitty little war.

Where the fuck were you “narrative following hysterical whiners” when the likes of Obama and Biden just watched…hell they did NOTHING…as Vlad rolled on Crimea (before any supposed referendum where by the Crimean people supposedly wanted to be Russians…do we know this is true…these “votes for Vlad”?)…where were you crying game bitchers when the likes of Spooner, Inflamed-dude and I were saying…”Hey, what are we doing about all those armaments that Vlad has been building up on the Ukrainian border now that YOU ELECTED THIS DEMENTIA PATIENT?!” Why do you intentionally FORGET Joe’s virtual invitation to Vlad…? 

Or are you gonna say,”We don’t remember!”…? (Here, let me remind you…)

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-suggests-russia-no-punishment-minor-ukraine-invasion-wh-clarify-2022-1?op=1

IMG 0586

No worries…

We all remember where you were…

You were hiding behind your CNN narrative. Yes, THAT IS WHERE YOU WERE…and where you ARE.

Where were you these last 4 years when YOUR DEMENTIA PATIENT SIMPLY THREW BILLIONS AT THIS WAR…IN FUCKING HALF MEASURES…?

It’s like he was following the instructions of…

RAYTHEON

LOCKHEED-MARTIN

Just like “Ike” said. And you fools want more of the same. Wow. 

Now that someone like Trump has actually made ENDING THIS WAR A PRIORITY?!…you show up and return to the very same stupid hysterical bullshit that we’ve been seeing since he came down the escalator.

We get it, you don’t like him and you LOVE…

The Status Quo.

Worst of all, you offer NOTHING OF VALUE. Which, btw, is EXACTLY what Trump is trying to pursue to JUSTIFY further support for the gentleman in the green outfit…he’s looking for some sort of “value”. He’s looking for something to collateralize CONTINUOUS “HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS” that we, the U.S.A….ARE SPENDING ON THIS WAR.  

One Nation…HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS.

We’d appreciate it if some of you would just say,”Thank you!” and move the fuck on; but, no…you say stupid hysterical shit & cry and moan. 

Where’s YOUR COUNTRY’S HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS? 

But I digress.

I apologize for actually knowing history.

Now, go back to your crying and hysterical rants.

You Can Not Make This Shit Up©️(Even-though the usual suspects keep trying)

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kongols
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3/2/2025 9:58am
OldTech wrote:
Okay fine "peacekeepers". But you do realize that ANY nations uniforms that enter Ukraine to say unload trucks with gear become legitimate targets in Russia's view...

Okay fine "peacekeepers". But you do realize that ANY nations uniforms that enter Ukraine to say unload trucks with gear become legitimate targets in Russia's view. British uniforms helping set up a missile system become targets. You see where I'm going with this? 

It would be part of the deal, agreed by Russia. Or that`s how I understood.

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kongols
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3/2/2025 10:03am
kongols wrote:
No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a...

No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a trillion.

 

OldTech wrote:
Okay fine "peacekeepers". But you do realize that ANY nations uniforms that enter Ukraine to say unload trucks with gear become legitimate targets in Russia's view...

Okay fine "peacekeepers". But you do realize that ANY nations uniforms that enter Ukraine to say unload trucks with gear become legitimate targets in Russia's view. British uniforms helping set up a missile system become targets. You see where I'm going with this? 

Anyway, from what I understand USA is out and it might be France and UK part of the peace deal. Only thing I hope is that USA , and Trump in particular does not put veto on a arms sale. Europe does not yet have capabilities to produce enough weapons. But it`s changing. Even Latvia is building factory. 

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OldTech
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3/2/2025 10:19am Edited Date/Time 3/2/2025 10:22am
kongols wrote:
Anyway, from what I understand USA is out and it might be France and UK part of the peace deal. Only thing I hope is that...

Anyway, from what I understand USA is out and it might be France and UK part of the peace deal. Only thing I hope is that USA , and Trump in particular does not put veto on a arms sale. Europe does not yet have capabilities to produce enough weapons. But it`s changing. Even Latvia is building factory. 

Okay so answer me this. The U.S. is a member of the UN and NATO, and this membership requires us to defend other members and provide assistance. And now EU members have decided on their own to get involved with this cat that could cause your own countries to become targets? And if one of your ports or bases were to be hit, would automatically involve us?

1
Spoonguy
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3/2/2025 10:19am
kongols wrote:

It`s the opposite. That`s why Zelensky proposed minerals deal. To pay for all this to USA.

OldTech wrote:
Please define "all this". Does this include possible armed troops shooting at Russians? Does this mean soldiers from France and the UK in Ukraine? Or even...

Please define "all this". Does this include possible armed troops shooting at Russians? Does this mean soldiers from France and the UK in Ukraine? Or even better an entire coalition army pushing the Russians back home?

kongols wrote:
No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a...

No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a trillion.

 

America is isolationist? Name three nations that perform more international humanitarian or relief efforts that the USA. Next name Ukraine's three biggest international relief or humanitarian efforts in the nation's history. 

8
4
M1000
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3/2/2025 10:24am
kongols wrote:
No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a...

No. Peacekeeping force in Ukraine, but not USA. USA is isolationist state now. All this, I meant past and future support. Deal is worth half a trillion.

 

FastEddy wrote:
"USA is isolationist state now"We are certainly taking a more Nationalistic approach so that our foreign policies can help us and not hurt us with...

"USA is isolationist state now"

We are certainly taking a more Nationalistic approach so that our foreign policies can help us and not hurt us with any deal.   However ,we still have over 800 active military bases in more than 70 countries all around the world.  And have about 168 embassies representing us allover the world,

I believe America will need close allies, a North American alliance ( tariffs don’t make friendships). EU is just that, but it’s no superpower. However China is a recognized competitor ( superpower). America superpower assumed role after ww2 (1945-2035)= 90 years. China will take the ball after 2035. USD $$$ will no longer be leading purchase power of the world. Perhaps conflict with China is inevitable. China is coming……stamp it. Be aware. 

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