KTM not the only ones struggling. Arctic Cat

chad_111
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Edited Date/Time 12/19/2024 9:03am

Arctic cat will be suspending production after the first half of 2025

Screenshot 20241219 101224 Facebook 0

 

2
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cameron96
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12/19/2024 8:41am

Cat is for sale


Textron bought them years ago to integrate talent into their business  they’ve don’t this before with smaller Airplane manufactures

Sale of just a couple jets equals all of Cats sales

The company has been stripped and ran differently 

Now Textron is looking to unload that asset probably for more than they paid  

Ktm doesn’t operate that way at least!

4
12/19/2024 8:54am

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

2
cameron96
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12/19/2024 8:59am
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

Pour winters forsure!  combined with powerports downturn

we still have Bombardier, Ski Doo,  Quite popular but also selling assets this year to free up Liquidity

3
12/19/2024 9:16am
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

Just because the mid-west has inconsistent snowfall (which they always have) doesn't mean the US in general doesn't have healthy snowfall and ample snow. Record breaking snowfall in the west of recent, and well above average start this year(already over 150" here), and like always, we'll be able to ride from Halloween till the 4th of July again this year, so no, snowpack has nothing to do with it. My buddy is a guide and booked his earliest clients ever this year, was guiding before Thanksgiving and will run through Easter. Here in the west tourism is booming, local ski resort sold 1mil in season passes the weekend they announced they'd be opening early. 

Cat will be bought, this will be the 3rd time it's been sold in the last 4 decades. Even Polaris was in similar situations before, and correct me if i'm wrong, was also owned by Textron. Textron was hoping to have the new motor and chassis out, and Cat for sale sooner, this has been their game plan since they bought Cat from most accounts. On positive note, everyone is raving about Cats new platform, which will be a solid perk for those looking to buy, they typically run a platform for 5ish years, fairly turn key operation with a solid product. There's been talks of John Deere being interested since 1st quarter last year but not sure that's the best fit. Someone will buy them.

2

The Shop

ns503
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NS Toolies, CA
12/19/2024 9:23am
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

Just because the mid-west has inconsistent snowfall (which they always have) doesn't mean the US in general doesn't have healthy snowfall and ample snow. Record breaking...

Just because the mid-west has inconsistent snowfall (which they always have) doesn't mean the US in general doesn't have healthy snowfall and ample snow. Record breaking snowfall in the west of recent, and well above average start this year(already over 150" here), and like always, we'll be able to ride from Halloween till the 4th of July again this year, so no, snowpack has nothing to do with it. My buddy is a guide and booked his earliest clients ever this year, was guiding before Thanksgiving and will run through Easter. Here in the west tourism is booming, local ski resort sold 1mil in season passes the weekend they announced they'd be opening early. 

Cat will be bought, this will be the 3rd time it's been sold in the last 4 decades. Even Polaris was in similar situations before, and correct me if i'm wrong, was also owned by Textron. Textron was hoping to have the new motor and chassis out, and Cat for sale sooner, this has been their game plan since they bought Cat from most accounts. On positive note, everyone is raving about Cats new platform, which will be a solid perk for those looking to buy, they typically run a platform for 5ish years, fairly turn key operation with a solid product. There's been talks of John Deere being interested since 1st quarter last year but not sure that's the best fit. Someone will buy them.

Snow has all kinds to do with it. Sure the mountains will always have snow pack. But mid-continent and east it has been very sketchy for a few years now. Lots of flatlander sledders running trails in those very populated areas. Or used to be when there was snow. 

2
12/19/2024 9:29am
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

My "riding" friend group is roughly 6-10 people.  Quads/bikes in spring/summer/fall, sleds in winter.  We go to the UP often as half of these guys live in the northern LP or the UP proper.

Yes, the lack of snow is killing winter tourism up there.  Last year as abysmal for snow.  The snow season is getting smaller, but like everything else there are bad and good years.  This isn't the whole story though.

First off, it's timing.  Even with a 'full" winter season from November - March, this is one of the most holiday-packed seasons of the year.  For those not living in a sled-friendly area, it's difficult to ride more than a few times per season when you are competing with Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, and Easter.  Most of the riding happens in late Jan-March.  For me and a few of us further down state, we no longer own sleds and just rent them.  No depreciation, no maintenance, no additional bills or trailer.  I show up, pick up a brand new machine, and go home after the weekend.

The other issue, at least in MI, is trail access.  Due to the shrinking snow season, the snowmobile "lobby" has become increasingly restrictive of trail access.  They've worked hard to lobby for restrictions on wheeled ORVs and effectively lock them out of the trail system during the winter months.  In recent years, they've pushed legislation to outlaw wheeled ORV use between December 1 and April 1 on mixed-use trails.  There's ~3500 miles of ORV trails in this state.  There's an additional 6500 that are Snowmobile ONLY.  This has led to strained relations between the two groups, despite a lot of overlap.  

And finally, there's the price of sleds.  Or more specifically, the perceived price of sleds.  Everyone quotes the fact that a new sled is $20k nowadays.  While true, that's not the whole story.  Everyone is demanding more and more tech, more power, etc.  You can get a new MXZ 600 or a 550 Indy Sport for $10k.  Adjusting for inflation, that's not much more than what sleds ran 20 years ago.  The problem is that everyone wants a top of the line machine.

As wallets tighten, I think we're going to see the ORV market swing back towards ATVs and play bikes a bit.  You can pick up a Sportsman 570 for $7k and ride from March-December (if not longer due to lack of snow).  Arctic Cat shot themselves in the foot here by putting out wheeled machines that are absolute garbage (besides the Wildcat XX, which never expanded into turbo, 72", and/or 4-seat models and as such is pretty much an also-ran).

1
12/19/2024 9:42am
Just because the mid-west has inconsistent snowfall (which they always have) doesn't mean the US in general doesn't have healthy snowfall and ample snow. Record breaking...

Just because the mid-west has inconsistent snowfall (which they always have) doesn't mean the US in general doesn't have healthy snowfall and ample snow. Record breaking snowfall in the west of recent, and well above average start this year(already over 150" here), and like always, we'll be able to ride from Halloween till the 4th of July again this year, so no, snowpack has nothing to do with it. My buddy is a guide and booked his earliest clients ever this year, was guiding before Thanksgiving and will run through Easter. Here in the west tourism is booming, local ski resort sold 1mil in season passes the weekend they announced they'd be opening early. 

Cat will be bought, this will be the 3rd time it's been sold in the last 4 decades. Even Polaris was in similar situations before, and correct me if i'm wrong, was also owned by Textron. Textron was hoping to have the new motor and chassis out, and Cat for sale sooner, this has been their game plan since they bought Cat from most accounts. On positive note, everyone is raving about Cats new platform, which will be a solid perk for those looking to buy, they typically run a platform for 5ish years, fairly turn key operation with a solid product. There's been talks of John Deere being interested since 1st quarter last year but not sure that's the best fit. Someone will buy them.

Textron owned Polaris from 68-81.

And yes, Textron has a lot of the blame here.  They applied their aircraft business knowledge to an industry that they were not prepared for.  Then they alienated the dealers by changing names twice in short order (Arctic Cat > Textron Offroad > Arctic Cat) and undercutting dealers by selling machines at Cabela's/Bass Pro as "Tracker Offroad".  This lead to the collapse of their dealer network.  Then they failed to capitalize on the ORV boom by offering competitive products.  As I said above, the only competitive machine they had was the Wildcat XX, but they neglected to expand the line likely due to a patent licensing agreement with Robbie Gordon.  The "updating" of their ATV line with the ill-conceived 600s further hurt their standing.  The 600 is a few thousand more than comparable models from Polaris and CanAm and lacks both the features and quality.  There's no compelling use case for any of their products unless you can get them cheaply.

FWIW, one of my friends has an ~8 year old Arctic Cat 700 ATV that's been a reliable machine, if not a bit agricultural.  Another has a 2021 Tracker 570 (rebadged Arctic Cat) that he bought new.  The 2021 is more or less the same as the 700 aside from displacement and a plastics restyle.  Both are reliable, but they don't ride nice, handle well, and lack power compared to their competitors.  The difference is that guy 1 paid something like $4500 for a leftover 700 and that Tracker 570 was $7300.  The new 600 from Bass Pro runs $7600.  Arctic Cat's base model 600 adds EPS and goes for $9200.

12/19/2024 10:47am

When your entry level trail sled starts at $9,399, you deserve to fail.

1
4
BAREIN
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southern, WI, USA
12/19/2024 1:38pm
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

The only really bad year for the U.P. was last season. usually it is so busy up there that you don't even want to ride Fri-Sun same for the northern counties in Wisconsin. Most popular bars and restaurants can be standing room only at popular times of the day. Cat was mismanaged for years and paid the price for it. They came out with a new model in 2012 that was a huge debacle from the reliability standpoint. They lost a ton of loyal customers from that

2
Rosso391
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YO MAMA, MN, USA
12/20/2024 7:22am
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

Ski-Doo and Polaris run the snowmobile industry. Cat has always been there, but they run a sketchy business model. I used to work at a Cat dealer for years. The Arctic Cat Rep told us they use their customers as the R&D department. They have been doing it for years. Very high liability using your own customers as the guinea pigs.

Also Yes, The winters have not been great here in Central MN for a while. 2023-2024 winter we had a brown winter. 2022-2023 winter was record high snow accumulation. And previous years to that were very mild for Minnesota. (No its not global warming) But 1 good year every 5 isn't going to sell sleds. And neither is the $12K-15K price tag on a "normal" sled.

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Rosso391
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12/20/2024 7:23am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2024 3:07pm

I'm thinking they're just selling, not shutting down. Unlike KTM. KTM is probably going to go completely under. Way too many irons in the fire with debt.

2
12/20/2024 10:08am
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

Rosso391 wrote:
Ski-Doo and Polaris run the snowmobile industry. Cat has always been there, but they run a sketchy business model. I used to work at a Cat...

Ski-Doo and Polaris run the snowmobile industry. Cat has always been there, but they run a sketchy business model. I used to work at a Cat dealer for years. The Arctic Cat Rep told us they use their customers as the R&D department. They have been doing it for years. Very high liability using your own customers as the guinea pigs.

Also Yes, The winters have not been great here in Central MN for a while. 2023-2024 winter we had a brown winter. 2022-2023 winter was record high snow accumulation. And previous years to that were very mild for Minnesota. (No its not global warming) But 1 good year every 5 isn't going to sell sleds. And neither is the $12K-15K price tag on a "normal" sled.

Polaris uses customers for development as part of their strategy as well.

1
Rosso391
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12/23/2024 3:07pm
Oldschool wrote:
Screenshot 20241223 104458 Facebook

Too soon bro...

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Rosso391
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12/23/2024 3:17pm
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

Rosso391 wrote:
Ski-Doo and Polaris run the snowmobile industry. Cat has always been there, but they run a sketchy business model. I used to work at a Cat...

Ski-Doo and Polaris run the snowmobile industry. Cat has always been there, but they run a sketchy business model. I used to work at a Cat dealer for years. The Arctic Cat Rep told us they use their customers as the R&D department. They have been doing it for years. Very high liability using your own customers as the guinea pigs.

Also Yes, The winters have not been great here in Central MN for a while. 2023-2024 winter we had a brown winter. 2022-2023 winter was record high snow accumulation. And previous years to that were very mild for Minnesota. (No its not global warming) But 1 good year every 5 isn't going to sell sleds. And neither is the $12K-15K price tag on a "normal" sled.

Polaris uses customers for development as part of their strategy as well.

Then Polaris either makes much much better quality parts, OR they're using their customers for development much less than Arctic Cat. Because I don't hear too much on the Polaris problem side except for the 9R and its multiple issues....

2
BAREIN
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southern, WI, USA
12/23/2024 3:53pm
Rosso391 wrote:
Ski-Doo and Polaris run the snowmobile industry. Cat has always been there, but they run a sketchy business model. I used to work at a Cat...

Ski-Doo and Polaris run the snowmobile industry. Cat has always been there, but they run a sketchy business model. I used to work at a Cat dealer for years. The Arctic Cat Rep told us they use their customers as the R&D department. They have been doing it for years. Very high liability using your own customers as the guinea pigs.

Also Yes, The winters have not been great here in Central MN for a while. 2023-2024 winter we had a brown winter. 2022-2023 winter was record high snow accumulation. And previous years to that were very mild for Minnesota. (No its not global warming) But 1 good year every 5 isn't going to sell sleds. And neither is the $12K-15K price tag on a "normal" sled.

Polaris uses customers for development as part of their strategy as well.

Rosso391 wrote:
Then Polaris either makes much much better quality parts, OR they're using their customers for development much less than Arctic Cat. Because I don't hear too...

Then Polaris either makes much much better quality parts, OR they're using their customers for development much less than Arctic Cat. Because I don't hear too much on the Polaris problem side except for the 9R and its multiple issues....

Fusion 900 was pretty bad. That was probably their low point 

Oldschool
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12/23/2024 4:06pm Edited Date/Time 12/23/2024 5:43pm

All in Fun

My last Sled was a  Cat an 09 800 Snopro

800 efi 2 stroke , absolute beast

I'll get another Cat , maybe this year IMG 20230120 182150 270

 

2
9bro9
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12/24/2024 2:25am
1
12/26/2024 6:56am

Polaris uses customers for development as part of their strategy as well.

Rosso391 wrote:
Then Polaris either makes much much better quality parts, OR they're using their customers for development much less than Arctic Cat. Because I don't hear too...

Then Polaris either makes much much better quality parts, OR they're using their customers for development much less than Arctic Cat. Because I don't hear too much on the Polaris problem side except for the 9R and its multiple issues....

BAREIN wrote:

Fusion 900 was pretty bad. That was probably their low point 

For sure and add in the '08+ 800 CFI.

BAREIN
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12/26/2024 11:28am

For sure and add in the '08+ 800 CFI.

I had a 800 cfi it was the first time in my life insurance fraud might have crossed my mind🤣

4
1/31/2025 4:58am

I had the money saved in 79 to buy the 2000 t Lynx. Of course my mom wouldn’t allow it. I really wanted the 79 eL Tigre 6000 but that was out of my budget.   The Lynx is pretty sharp today yet.  The 2000 s was a single cylinder.  I don’t remember the price 1,100 maybe . Surprised to see no snow in Green Bay . There’s 10-12 in 450 miles to the south. IMG 2166.png?VersionId=qHXH61

4
1/31/2025 4:59am

Oh prie is in the add still 999.00

1
1/31/2025 5:00am

Free test rides b4 you buy . 

1
TAUTOG
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1/31/2025 5:07am
This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me...

This is at least partly related to the lack of snow the past few years.  My cousin owns a cabin in the UP.  He told me that times have been super tough on businesses there recently.  They count on snowmobile tourism to make ends meet.  With both Yamaha and Arctic Cat out of the snowmobile business, does that leave Polaris as last man standing?  Sorry, I don’t know all that much about the snowmobile world.

Just because the mid-west has inconsistent snowfall (which they always have) doesn't mean the US in general doesn't have healthy snowfall and ample snow. Record breaking...

Just because the mid-west has inconsistent snowfall (which they always have) doesn't mean the US in general doesn't have healthy snowfall and ample snow. Record breaking snowfall in the west of recent, and well above average start this year(already over 150" here), and like always, we'll be able to ride from Halloween till the 4th of July again this year, so no, snowpack has nothing to do with it. My buddy is a guide and booked his earliest clients ever this year, was guiding before Thanksgiving and will run through Easter. Here in the west tourism is booming, local ski resort sold 1mil in season passes the weekend they announced they'd be opening early. 

Cat will be bought, this will be the 3rd time it's been sold in the last 4 decades. Even Polaris was in similar situations before, and correct me if i'm wrong, was also owned by Textron. Textron was hoping to have the new motor and chassis out, and Cat for sale sooner, this has been their game plan since they bought Cat from most accounts. On positive note, everyone is raving about Cats new platform, which will be a solid perk for those looking to buy, they typically run a platform for 5ish years, fairly turn key operation with a solid product. There's been talks of John Deere being interested since 1st quarter last year but not sure that's the best fit. Someone will buy them.

ns503 wrote:
Snow has all kinds to do with it. Sure the mountains will always have snow pack. But mid-continent and east it has been very sketchy for...

Snow has all kinds to do with it. Sure the mountains will always have snow pack. But mid-continent and east it has been very sketchy for a few years now. Lots of flatlander sledders running trails in those very populated areas. Or used to be when there was snow. 

The northeast is a pretty big market also and the snow has not been good for the last few years. At least New York seems to be good this year from what I've heard.

 

1/31/2025 6:42am

No real snow in MN. Haven't rode my sled in 2 years. 3 years ago, put 1,000mi. on. Can't count on it these days...

Back in the 90's, my friends and I were in high school; all had sleds and rode every winter. My kids are getting to be that age soon and there's no way they could afford to buy their own sled and justify it. Good memories for sure, though.

4
BAREIN
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southern, WI, USA
2/1/2025 6:34am
No real snow in MN. Haven't rode my sled in 2 years. 3 years ago, put 1,000mi. on. Can't count on it these days...Back in the...

No real snow in MN. Haven't rode my sled in 2 years. 3 years ago, put 1,000mi. on. Can't count on it these days...

Back in the 90's, my friends and I were in high school; all had sleds and rode every winter. My kids are getting to be that age soon and there's no way they could afford to buy their own sled and justify it. Good memories for sure, though.

high school Snowmobiling was a great memory for me as well. Everyone knew who had a sled and we would arrange rides after school. It was always a hell of a  mixed group and that is one of the reasons it was cool, everything from a football player to a few rough kids and everything between. The sleds were always a mix as well, old junk to a few spoiled kids riding new stuff.

5
Oldschool
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2/4/2025 4:37pm

CF MOTO /  CHINA

Bought Arctic Cat....

4
2/5/2025 6:38am
Oldschool wrote:

CF MOTO /  CHINA

Bought Arctic Cat....

Where are you hearing this?  It's been said that they made three offers to Textron which were all rejected.  Some are saying that Argo is going to be purchasing AC.  Many former AC employees are working at Argo, who is also based in Thief River Falls.

2
Oldschool
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2/5/2025 7:40am Edited Date/Time 2/5/2025 11:24am

A Sled channel on insta , Could be Fake news since nothing official has been released hmmm

1

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