Mirtl on Pulp

DonM
Posts
8404
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Fantasy
1/28/2025 5:28pm
MX Guy wrote:

All I know is none of the Lawrence camp is never coming on the show again. 

They never came on anyways.....now this is the capper....because Mirtl wouldn't let them....

22
DonM
Posts
8404
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Fantasy
1/28/2025 5:33pm
Herr Lich wrote:
The moto media and objectivity and distance from the subjects they are covering doesn't exist. I doubt the 'moto media' - almost all of whom are...

The moto media and objectivity and distance from the subjects they are covering doesn't exist. I doubt the 'moto media' - almost all of whom are enthusiastic amateurs - would even know what those concepts mean. 

LungButter wrote:
How do you suggest someone make a living in moto media without being connected to the subjects?What you've stated here is a pretty common "bash" on...

How do you suggest someone make a living in moto media without being connected to the subjects?

What you've stated here is a pretty common "bash" on the moto media but I've yet to see anyone come up with a solution.

I don't have a lot of faith in you having an intelligent and/or realistic solution either....

Almost all motorsports media is the same, it's because the media is part of the traveling circus that is SX/MX, F1, NASCAR and IndyCar....

5
2
jmo443
Posts
1840
Joined
4/5/2019
Location
NY US
1/28/2025 5:47pm

Not taking a side but just a bad look by Mirtl. I can imagine being in his shoes sucks no matter what. But, issuing his own statement which sounds like he was on a bender then further speaking about it. Not a good look at all and any lawyer would be pulling their hair out trying to do damage control. We won’t hear the end of it only time will tell if Mirtl gets back into the Mx scene and manages someone. 

7
PNWMXer
Posts
1729
Joined
1/13/2022
Location
Washington, WA US
1/28/2025 5:50pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2025 5:52pm
MxAddic wrote:

If he was an authorized user of those accounts...

Yep, the absolute hinge pin of the entire legal side of this. 

JazzyJJ wrote:
You can be an authorize user on an account but that doesn't mean the money is yours. You here about controllers all of the time getting...

You can be an authorize user on an account but that doesn't mean the money is yours. You here about controllers all of the time getting in trouble for embezzlement. They have access and have to use business accounts for payments/payroll/whatever then they help themselves to some of the money as well

True on the civil side (lawsuits etc), but not necessarily on the criminal side. Preponderance of the evidence (“more likely than not”) is the standard in civil court, which is a far lower standard than “beyond a reasonable doubt” as required by a criminal court. Often, at the first sign of consent to access accounts/funds (even if the amount/use is now contested), it isn’t going to be investigated/charged as a criminal matter because they can use the defense “but I’ve been managing these accounts for X years with their knowledge and consent.” The parties would be referred to seek a civil remedy.


Certainly however, evidence pointing to attempts to cover it up on the books, and/or other evidence of knowledge that this wasn’t consensual activity/spending, could pull it back towards criminal culpability.


 

3

The Shop

Herr Lich
Posts
2568
Joined
7/11/2023
Location
Sydney, NSW AU
1/28/2025 7:01pm
Herr Lich wrote:
Connection to the subjects doesn't preclude having objectivity. Most of the 'moto media' are very interested in bro downs with the riders and teams. Journalists aren't...

Connection to the subjects doesn't preclude having objectivity. Most of the 'moto media' are very interested in bro downs with the riders and teams. Journalists aren't supposed to be friends with the people they cover, it gets in the way of objectively and fairly covering events.  That's not to say they should be rude or uncivil or publish conspiratorial rubbish like Kooksey, but they shouldn't be mates with the riders. 

So one solution would be maintaining a professional distance. 

Another solution would require a mature approach to the media on the behalf of teams and riders. In the real world journalists generally aren't blacklisted and so on for producing stories about people or events that aren't favourable to those people. Seemingly, in moto this happens all the time. 

LungButter wrote:

I think what you said in your last paragraph prevents any of your other suggestions from happening.

Fair points though.

That's what I think too - the larger problem is the teams and riders. 

1
9bro9
Posts
471
Joined
2/9/2019
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
Fantasy
1/28/2025 7:50pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2025 7:51pm

What if Tate Lawrence was secretly the mastermind behind this entire scheme? He was pretty coy about going to other teams semi's and getting laced out in gear, to the point Honda gave him a contract and a quad a few years back. 
Was this whole Mirtl situation created because of Tate Lawrence's Factory HRC contract expiring, and he wanted to get his pay day, too? 

All jokes aside, Steve plays Switzerland and BUDDY to everyone to not pick sides. Doing the same shit with EKS brand goggles too. I get it, it's a niche industry. but FFS, where do you draw the line? Clearly there's a line drawn with Nico Izzi being an addict & an industry thief is something that will not be tolerated. 

I find it interesting sitting on the outside seeing who gets a pass and pardon in the moto community. 

7
3
Zacka 161
Posts
1625
Joined
7/30/2009
Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
1/28/2025 8:03pm

'I'm getting a lawyer... not criminla, civil, there's a lot of employment things...'

To me that reads as 'I'm guilty of what they said I'm guilty of but the way handled it, from an employment pov, means i can sue and get motza dollars' or something along those lines... 

He definitely didn't go hard at defending himself and the fact he never said, 'i've been reaching out to them but they won't take my calls...' and instead 'I havent heard from them'... It was just came off as this weird passive acceptance to me... 

19
Piston Slap
Posts
1971
Joined
7/2/2013
Location
Stillwater, OK US
1/28/2025 8:07pm

Hey Boys,

I only have 2 words based on what I have heard.

Character assassination. . . 

Pisto

1
7
Piston Slap
Posts
1971
Joined
7/2/2013
Location
Stillwater, OK US
1/28/2025 8:20pm
GrapeApe wrote:
The Lawrences sticking with WMG to me indicates they have already been made whole, or at least been assured by WMG they will be made whole...

The Lawrences sticking with WMG to me indicates they have already been made whole, or at least been assured by WMG they will be made whole once the audit is complete. The battle will be between WMG and Mirtl (or maybe a DA and Mirtl). 

Grape with all disrespect......brother.🤣

Ain't nobody been "made whole".  A legal fiction taught in first year torts...( Can Attest)

This has a long way to go, WMG and Lawrences have put it all on the dice.  Reputational, compensatory and punitive damages available in various Courts are available if wrong has been done....on either party!

Criminal if true theft occurred.

This is bullshit to be handled this wat. . . no excuses!

 

PS

 

1
9
ando
Posts
4181
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth AU
1/28/2025 8:34pm

Yep, the absolute hinge pin of the entire legal side of this. 

JazzyJJ wrote:
You can be an authorize user on an account but that doesn't mean the money is yours. You here about controllers all of the time getting...

You can be an authorize user on an account but that doesn't mean the money is yours. You here about controllers all of the time getting in trouble for embezzlement. They have access and have to use business accounts for payments/payroll/whatever then they help themselves to some of the money as well

No way, really???Just because I have a corporate CC doesn't mean I can buy whatever I want?This is the difference between basic theft and embezzlement. Nobody...

No way, really???

Just because I have a corporate CC doesn't mean I can buy whatever I want?

This is the difference between basic theft and embezzlement. Nobody is saying he can do what he wants if he has access. The hinge pin I mentioned is referencing this, and the fact a civil lawsuit is also MUCH stronger in the case of embezzlement, even though that's a criminal term.

The waters are more muddy here than in the case of a controller, because as their agent he would be acting as their proxy in business matters. A controller using funds for a private jet is SOL, an agent has a lot of ways to explain that away as a business expense. 

The Lawrence statement specifically mentioned personal benefit.  Obviously that could cover a lot of ground but it sounds much more pointed than a dispute over whether the expense was justified.

To use the private jet example…

Let’s say he had to fly somewhere on a legitimate trip and used a private jet instead of flying commercially.  That might be questionable but at least defensible if it was disputed and could easily be argued wasn’t for personal benefit.

If however while at the business destination in the private jet he used it for a quick weekend trip to some other destination, that clearly is personal benefit and much harder to defend.

5
JDub067
Posts
372
Joined
8/13/2022
Location
AU
1/29/2025 2:26am

It doesn’t look good, he sounds incredibly manic and not well mentally. I hope he gets the help he needs, but the punishment he deserves if guilty 

8
1
1/29/2025 2:44am
MX Guy wrote:

All I know is none of the Lawrence camp is never coming on the show again. 

All i know is you just contradicted yourself there.......

3
1/29/2025 2:49am
Maddog151 wrote:

This is going to end up like, “what was in Davi’s locker”

 

2
1
olderandYZer
Posts
140
Joined
3/24/2020
Location
Bellefonte , WV US
1/29/2025 6:05am

I think as this story unfolds, it will have some surprising tidbits and we will see the real reason this has happened.  

 

I'm still curious as to how/why Jacob Hayes became an agent.  Last year he was at Lorettas  racing and was flat broke and had nothing going on. To me, I'd like to know how that happened in what, 5 months? I'm not saying it's nefarious in any way, but possible a plan to move Lucas out was hatched and somehow/someway Hayes said "Yeah, I'm in!"

 

Crazy.  It will all shake out in a month, but there will be some other "drama" these boards will be contemplating and most will mever know the real truth.

5
12
CH112
Posts
24
Joined
11/16/2022
Location
FL US
1/29/2025 6:23am
I think as this story unfolds, it will have some surprising tidbits and we will see the real reason this has happened.   I'm still curious as...

I think as this story unfolds, it will have some surprising tidbits and we will see the real reason this has happened.  

 

I'm still curious as to how/why Jacob Hayes became an agent.  Last year he was at Lorettas  racing and was flat broke and had nothing going on. To me, I'd like to know how that happened in what, 5 months? I'm not saying it's nefarious in any way, but possible a plan to move Lucas out was hatched and somehow/someway Hayes said "Yeah, I'm in!"

 

Crazy.  It will all shake out in a month, but there will be some other "drama" these boards will be contemplating and most will mever know the real truth.

I am pretty sure Jacob has been working under Mirtl for a couple of years now. 

My guess is with Mirtl overseeing multiple riders, he needed someone to work on Lawrence projects daily and that is what Jacob was tasked with. 

9
3strokemx
Posts
2408
Joined
9/2/2010
Location
US
1/29/2025 6:24am
I think as this story unfolds, it will have some surprising tidbits and we will see the real reason this has happened.   I'm still curious as...

I think as this story unfolds, it will have some surprising tidbits and we will see the real reason this has happened.  

 

I'm still curious as to how/why Jacob Hayes became an agent.  Last year he was at Lorettas  racing and was flat broke and had nothing going on. To me, I'd like to know how that happened in what, 5 months? I'm not saying it's nefarious in any way, but possible a plan to move Lucas out was hatched and somehow/someway Hayes said "Yeah, I'm in!"

 

Crazy.  It will all shake out in a month, but there will be some other "drama" these boards will be contemplating and most will mever know the real truth.

I promise you no one who is "flat broke" is racing at LL.

21
1
1/29/2025 6:31am

Are agents required to have a degree in finance or any background and experience to get that job? Any series 7 or 63 qualifications? Or can any bro just know someone and slide in? 

aeffertz
Posts
12470
Joined
7/16/2015
Location
La Crosse, WI US
1/29/2025 7:54am

I know it's Cooksey, but apparently he's talking with Mirtl...and he's claiming lawsuit incoming from Mirtl will be coming today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd7Gj7qsmo

I’m bored at work and decided to listen. Should’ve known better… It always comes back around to being Davey Coombs fault. 

13
1
1/29/2025 7:59am

I know it's Cooksey, but apparently he's talking with Mirtl...and he's claiming lawsuit incoming from Mirtl will be coming today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd7Gj7qsmo

aeffertz wrote:

I’m bored at work and decided to listen. Should’ve known better… It always comes back around to being Davey Coombs fault. 

lol - I know. Ol' Cooksey certainly isn't afraid of sharing his opinions so I guess we'll see again if he's right or not regarding the lawsuits.

2
3
1/29/2025 8:21am

Could you imagine the blowback the whole Lawrence clan would receive if Mirtl is not guilty? Holy shi...

2
2
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
1/29/2025 8:22am
aeffertz wrote:

I’m bored at work and decided to listen. Should’ve known better… It always comes back around to being Davey Coombs fault. 

I ain't got time nor do I wanna give him the view.

Got a cliff notes on how he spun this to be Davey's fault?

6
2
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
1/29/2025 8:24am
3strokemx wrote:

I promise you no one who is "flat broke" is racing at LL.

I get what you're saying but I would make a healthy wager that there are lots of people racing (or supporting their kids racing) at Loretta's who have a higher sum in credit card debt than they have in their savings account.

Where I come from we consider that flat broke. 😉

9
aeffertz
Posts
12470
Joined
7/16/2015
Location
La Crosse, WI US
1/29/2025 8:29am
aeffertz wrote:

I’m bored at work and decided to listen. Should’ve known better… It always comes back around to being Davey Coombs fault. 

LungButter wrote:

I ain't got time nor do I wanna give him the view.

Got a cliff notes on how he spun this to be Davey's fault?

Feld, DC, RacerX and Matthes all helped to set up Mirtl because they realized he was becoming “too powerful”. 

15
1/29/2025 8:30am

To bring it back to the original topic a bit, I think Steve had him on because 1) it's the biggest story of the year thus far in MX/SX, and 2) Mirtl asked. I think Steve came across as exactly like he said, a friend, which is right in character for Steve. Like it or not, he comes across to me as loyal to friends, but honest in his assessment of the situation. He sounded to me exactly like that--a friend talking to a friend in a difficult situation. I commend Steve for how he handled this "interview" (more of a discussion I would call it) as he did not go in for a kill shot, but was empathetic about letting Mirtl give whatever info he could / would but still maintaining that the optics didn't look good. And you can tell Steve cares about him as a human being while this all plays out.

And Pulp is also a business, there to generate traffic, views, and ultimately Steve's income--what moto outlet on earth would pass on an interview with the subject of the biggest story in MX/SX right now? That part is a no-brainer. The reason Mirtl chose Pulp, I believe, is exactly because Steve is a decent person, and Mirtz knew there wouldn't be cheap "gotcha" questions.         

22
MPJC
Posts
2025
Joined
5/18/2017
Location
CA
Fantasy
1/29/2025 8:35am

Yep, the absolute hinge pin of the entire legal side of this. 

JazzyJJ wrote:
You can be an authorize user on an account but that doesn't mean the money is yours. You here about controllers all of the time getting...

You can be an authorize user on an account but that doesn't mean the money is yours. You here about controllers all of the time getting in trouble for embezzlement. They have access and have to use business accounts for payments/payroll/whatever then they help themselves to some of the money as well

PNWMXer wrote:
True on the civil side (lawsuits etc), but not necessarily on the criminal side. Preponderance of the evidence (“more likely than not”) is the standard in...

True on the civil side (lawsuits etc), but not necessarily on the criminal side. Preponderance of the evidence (“more likely than not”) is the standard in civil court, which is a far lower standard than “beyond a reasonable doubt” as required by a criminal court. Often, at the first sign of consent to access accounts/funds (even if the amount/use is now contested), it isn’t going to be investigated/charged as a criminal matter because they can use the defense “but I’ve been managing these accounts for X years with their knowledge and consent.” The parties would be referred to seek a civil remedy.


Certainly however, evidence pointing to attempts to cover it up on the books, and/or other evidence of knowledge that this wasn’t consensual activity/spending, could pull it back towards criminal culpability.


 

I'm not a lawyer, but I would expect that if he was an authorized user, it was likely as a power of attorney, which authorizes him to use the funds on behalf of the party who owns the account.  Alternatively, you can have someone's name on an account but then have a trust agreement specifying that one party is the beneficial owner and that the other party is only authorized to access the account for the benefit of the beneficial owner. I would expect that the contract would have some such clauses.

When my mother was alive, after my father passed, I was both power of attorney and had my name on her accounts with a trust agreement in place - she did this for ease of access and ease of inheritance (I'm an only child, which simplifies the situation). I realize that the relationship between Mirtl and the Lawrences isn't exactly like the relationship between me and my mother, but the point is that giving someone access to your accounts doesn't necessarily give them a carte blanche to do whatever they wish - and this is a case where it almost certainly would not.  

6
1/29/2025 8:39am
JazzyJJ wrote:
You can be an authorize user on an account but that doesn't mean the money is yours. You here about controllers all of the time getting...

You can be an authorize user on an account but that doesn't mean the money is yours. You here about controllers all of the time getting in trouble for embezzlement. They have access and have to use business accounts for payments/payroll/whatever then they help themselves to some of the money as well

PNWMXer wrote:
True on the civil side (lawsuits etc), but not necessarily on the criminal side. Preponderance of the evidence (“more likely than not”) is the standard in...

True on the civil side (lawsuits etc), but not necessarily on the criminal side. Preponderance of the evidence (“more likely than not”) is the standard in civil court, which is a far lower standard than “beyond a reasonable doubt” as required by a criminal court. Often, at the first sign of consent to access accounts/funds (even if the amount/use is now contested), it isn’t going to be investigated/charged as a criminal matter because they can use the defense “but I’ve been managing these accounts for X years with their knowledge and consent.” The parties would be referred to seek a civil remedy.


Certainly however, evidence pointing to attempts to cover it up on the books, and/or other evidence of knowledge that this wasn’t consensual activity/spending, could pull it back towards criminal culpability.


 

MPJC wrote:
I'm not a lawyer, but I would expect that if he was an authorized user, it was likely as a power of attorney, which authorizes him...

I'm not a lawyer, but I would expect that if he was an authorized user, it was likely as a power of attorney, which authorizes him to use the funds on behalf of the party who owns the account.  Alternatively, you can have someone's name on an account but then have a trust agreement specifying that one party is the beneficial owner and that the other party is only authorized to access the account for the benefit of the beneficial owner. I would expect that the contract would have some such clauses.

When my mother was alive, after my father passed, I was both power of attorney and had my name on her accounts with a trust agreement in place - she did this for ease of access and ease of inheritance (I'm an only child, which simplifies the situation). I realize that the relationship between Mirtl and the Lawrences isn't exactly like the relationship between me and my mother, but the point is that giving someone access to your accounts doesn't necessarily give them a carte blanche to do whatever they wish - and this is a case where it almost certainly would not.  

IMG 2345 1.jpeg?VersionId=4adfkh0yKVLohi8WGvBmA l00RS5j
1
2
whyZ
Posts
1158
Joined
4/15/2009
Location
Phoenix, AZ US
1/29/2025 9:13am
Zacka 161 wrote:
'I'm getting a lawyer... not criminla, civil, there's a lot of employment things...'To me that reads as 'I'm guilty of what they said I'm guilty of...

'I'm getting a lawyer... not criminla, civil, there's a lot of employment things...'

To me that reads as 'I'm guilty of what they said I'm guilty of but the way handled it, from an employment pov, means i can sue and get motza dollars' or something along those lines... 

He definitely didn't go hard at defending himself and the fact he never said, 'i've been reaching out to them but they won't take my calls...' and instead 'I havent heard from them'... It was just came off as this weird passive acceptance to me... 

Agreed, I think he's coming to the realization that he's in a jump or be pushed position.  How far and how fast the fall will be is about all he has left.    

1
1/29/2025 9:15am Edited Date/Time 1/29/2025 9:24am
I think as this story unfolds, it will have some surprising tidbits and we will see the real reason this has happened.   I'm still curious as...

I think as this story unfolds, it will have some surprising tidbits and we will see the real reason this has happened.  

 

I'm still curious as to how/why Jacob Hayes became an agent.  Last year he was at Lorettas  racing and was flat broke and had nothing going on. To me, I'd like to know how that happened in what, 5 months? I'm not saying it's nefarious in any way, but possible a plan to move Lucas out was hatched and somehow/someway Hayes said "Yeah, I'm in!"

 

Crazy.  It will all shake out in a month, but there will be some other "drama" these boards will be contemplating and most will mever know the real truth.

This is flat out false. He was working the the Lawrence camp at time of Loretta’s last year.  Did you just make that up ?

Vital did a story in 23 on how Jacob became an agent. Google it. 

7

Post a reply to: Mirtl on Pulp

The Latest