Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
I know what you mean about not computing, these works bikes for close to $100k when you can buy freakin HOUSES for the price of one!
1. Cheaper to build, and therefore purchase than a 2 smoke
2. Cheaper to maintain than a 2 smoke
3. Easier to maintain than a 2 smoke
I'm sure there's some guy that has owned a 4 choke for 10 years, rode it to the track uphill both ways in the snow and has only changed the oil in it twice since 2000 and railed the crap out of it every weekend since, and it's never broke. It's called a Honda Fourtrax folks. Cause there ain't nobody, and I mean nobody that has a 4 stroke motocross bike for 5 years and rides it routinely at any level above a beginner level that hasn't touched one of those farm tractors engines besides oil in it for five years and that pile hasn't grenaded. And if there is, please don't post it, just look in the mirror, you will fall a victim of Darwinism my friend, cause that babys gonna blow at the worst possible time. Then you can post about how you where stretchin out that throttle cable over the big "single" and she blew!
Sure smokers blow too, but, they are quick, cheap, and easy to fix.
Cost conversation is over. Not even die hard 4 strokers can argue expense. If they try just ask them what kind of grades they got in 5th grade math, cause my guess is they were held back and got to do that class twice
As for the rest of the debate, ask Mitch Payton if it were 250 vs 250 what his riders would be on that should answer your question on which is a better racing machine...
The only reason 4 chokes are competitive is because of a handicap (no secret). This all leads back to the cost. If you ever want to know why somebody does something, follow the money. The manufacturers said hey, if we start selling real complicated time bombs, people are dumb sheep that will buy whatever Stewy, Poto, and RC are riding. Then we will sell more parts, and make more money. So after a 400cc choker was winning races they got the AMA to change the rules which shut down a chance of a competitive race between the two. Problem is they miscalculated on there price points, oops. Economy tanks, people can't afford farm tractors anymore. So now you have empty gates even with 2 or 3 classes on the line where there used to be 2 heats for 1 class... But I digress.
Now you have tracks closing because of noise or empty pits on raceday. While I don't have any real problem with 4 strokes, fact is all the folks that lllooovvveeee the 4's, they will either wake up with the manufacturers and switch back and make the 4 stroke "nostalgic", or ride off in the sunset on there 4 along with the sport cause there will be nowhere to ride. There is your true "cost" of a 4 stroke.
And last but certainly not least, smokers are much more fun to ride. Besides 20 or so guys making an actual living riding these things, isn't that what it's all about?
Please tell me if I'm wrong.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
$4.29 (at Kragens)
Kawasaki 4T motor-oil
$5.48 (Kawi shop)
Honda 4T motor oil
$6.64 (Honda shop)
Motul 3000
$7.99 (Local "Tuner" Shop)
2 Stroke Trans-Oils:
(As mfg recm'd)
Honda HP Trans
$8.19 (Honda shop)
Bel-Ray Gear-Saver
$10.95 (Honda Sshop)"
Based on this pricing argument I am going out today and buy some 4T oil to put in my 2T to save some money!
Seriously though, expense is one thing when you look at the oils and parts. What about the time it takes. Under 2 hours if you take your time on a 2T to rebuild a top end. 4T? I think it would take me almost 2 hours to break the timing chain...
PRO CIRCUIT STAGE 3 MODIFIED CYLINDER HEAD
(1 review) | write a review
Your Price: ($3004.99 - $3249.99)
Edelbrock #350-2099
Power Package Top End Kit
1955-86 SB-Chevy 327-350
435 HP, 435 ft/lbs TQ
$1,839.99
My first 4 stroke was a Vertimatti C501.. Back in 02 I recieved a full boat ride from them to help develop the bike. They provided a bike, mechanic, and any parts I needed. After 3 months The other team rider (Daryl Youngblood) and I were both dropped from the team b/c we couldnt get the bike to last longer than 30min without grenading.
For the 03 season I was offered some Yamaha support if I would race a 250F. Not having any better options other than going back to riding my personal clapped out YZ250, I took the offer. Huge mistake on my part. I was severely underpowered all season on the bike, my results suffered, and it blew up enough to cause maritial problems over my racing "budget". Piston and rings every month, valves/cam every 3 months, and new crank every 6 months were the only way to prevent catastrophic failure.
After 18 months on that bike I had enough and went back to riding my clapped out 2 stroke. Not long after that an injury and bike theft would force me out of riding till Jan. of 09. I decided to get back into riding, and the only bike my local dealer could get for me or offer me any sort of racers discount on was a 4 stroke. I reluctantly bought one, being assured that the reliability problems were a thing of the past and the 4 strokes had come a long way. At approx. 27hrs on the bike, a valve spring broke, causing a chain reaction of carnage that would have me replacing almost the ENTIRE engine to the tune of almost $4300 for parts and labor( I could have done it myself, but let the dealer do the teardown in hopes yamaha would warranty it). I fought with Yamaha for 3 months over the repair, and finally just gave up and paid the bill so I could get my bike back..
That weekend I ended up racing a local race and buying a used 2 stroke that was for sale. I rode that bike up untill last Feb. At that time I decided at that time to sell the 450, since it hadnt been ridden in 7 months. In a period of 1 week I recieved ZERO calls about the 450, but was getting around 10 calls/emails per day of people inquiring about the 250 2 stroke that was in the background of my for sale picture, and if I wanted to sell it. I was made an offer I couldnt turn down, so I went back to riding the 450. That lasted 3 weeks till guess what, it blew up again. I ended up finding a used YZ250 that was only 1 week old after searching every dealer in the southeast for a new one. I rode that bike up until the end of april when I broke my shoulder. At that time I decided to go ahead and list my 250 for sale, so I could get a new bike when I was able to ride again. Also keep in mind that my 450 has been for sale now for 3 months with not one call on it( listed for sale for $4500). My YZ250 was a 07 but it had about 50 hours on it... I listed it for $4500 , and I ended up selling it the first day it was listed for $4000. I only paid $3500 for it. It took another month for my 09 450 to finally sell at a price of $3700. I had the intial purchase price of the bike( $6000), the replacement engine ($4300) and then another top end($1300), and I sold the bike with less than 60 total hours for $3700.
My story may be rare, but for me, the 4 stroke has been a total loss. Bikes depreciate, but one has to expect a resonable return on the investment, and with a 4 stroke, one major failure and the ability to do that goes out the window. I can honestly say that if there wasnt a 2 stroke option, I would be done riding MX as I would be priced out.
I have been riding MX since Dec. of 93.... In that time I have blown up alot of bikes( my user name used to be katoom645, but the kaboom was earned). I have NEVER had a 2 stroke sieze on me suddenly, they ussually just slow down and then bog till they die. When a 4 stroke lets go, its sudden, does it without warning, and usually locks up tight. This becomes a huge safety issue, especially if you are jumping(a la Josh Grant at last years X games). I personally have been put over the bars 3 times from a 4 stroke letting go.
Its been my experience that a 2 stroke will start feeling worn out when it needs a rebuild and gives you some warning.. The 4 stroke will continue to run good and strong, way past the point of needing a rebuild, right up untill it lets go.
That is probably the reason that 4stroke are so hard to resale these days.. That bike that ran so good for 4 years with only oil and filter changes is now a ticking time bomb for the new owner that could go any minute
"If the two-stroke was invented today, it would sweep the four-stroke motocross engine off the face of the earth (which is exactly what it did 43 years ago—when the displacement rules were equal). "
Pit Row
i am at a point financially where if i blow up my 450, i will be done riding until i pay the bike off. at which point i still won't be able to afford fixing it.
4 strokes are killing the sport i have spent 15+ years loving.
one thing i hate about 4 strokes is it's too easy to go fast. i used to train for hours doing turning drills to get faster. if i screwed up a corner in the 125 pro class, i would suffer down the next straight or not be able to jump the next section, cornering was such a fundamental factor to being fast. you really had to work to be a faster rider on a 2 stroke. i miss that.. blow a corner on a 250f or 450 and just lean back and pin it, there is no penalty for not being able to corner.
Never mind.... Go drive your vette at the track.
Gotta get those shift points right
Though - I would enjoy a KTM 150, but I know if I didnt stay up on the piston and drive, I would be done. I am almost embarrassed to mention how well my 450 still runs on what little I have done to it in the past two years. Oil, air and oil filters and tires. Even the chain is embarrassing.
Post a reply to: 4T versus 2T...the "Cost" argument.