What's the perception of MX?

observer
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 2:17pm
Guys...the brutal facts are, IMO, motocross simply never will garner the TV, fan base/attention that NASCAR or even motorcycle road racing does. All one needs to do is look at the motocross world scenery nowadays(look at the advertisements, all over the internet & magazines-many cases kinda goofy huh?), can you imagine the world of RCR, JGR, Gannasi, Hendricks, Rousch racing operating/advertising in such a manner? Me neither.
Let's face it, our target audience is the flat billed cap/kids in there teens and early/mid 20s(which Co sponsers in our sport have assisted in steering it in that direction). Not exactly the deeper pocket target audience corporations have in there crosshairs. NASCAR, on the other hand, has the tiger by the tail. They've done a marvelous job with there fan base/target audience and marketing the sport. Additionally, there's some awfully good racing going on.

The simple fact is, while we've made big strides since I watched Weinert beat the Euros in the mud back in 71 or 72(forget), motocross will never be an attraction like NASCAR or, in my opinion, motorcycle road racing. Simply because of the perception(or lack of)-of the casual(beer in hand)Sat or Sun TV channel switching audience(also lack of advertising space on bike is an issue, to some extent).

SX is the biggest splash for this sport. Lets hoards of people stumble in at the stadiums at $35-55(or more)a head, guzzle beer/stuff hot dogs/nachos in there mouths(@5-6 bucks or more/a piece), in the comfort of a stadium with excellent viewing in just about any seat. EVERYBODY makes big $. Which is what it's ALL about anymore. Regardless of the distruction of the SPORT of motocross, money is the driver here.

The dirty little fact is motocross just isn't that interesting to most casual observers.
Sad but true.
What's your take? Solutions??
|
Rasmus99
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7/10/2010 11:08am
You know that Nascar only exists in USA? Motocross is Worldwide!
And is Nascar realy fun? No becouse its about the car, so is also F1. The only way to make it fun is to put money on a driver.

And about betting, Supercross would draw an completely new audience if they made it possible to bet when you arrive to the event!
observer
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7/10/2010 11:32am
Rasmus99 wrote:
You know that Nascar only exists in USA? Motocross is Worldwide! And is Nascar realy fun? No becouse its about the car, so is also F1...
You know that Nascar only exists in USA? Motocross is Worldwide!
And is Nascar realy fun? No becouse its about the car, so is also F1. The only way to make it fun is to put money on a driver.

And about betting, Supercross would draw an completely new audience if they made it possible to bet when you arrive to the event!
NASCAR doesn't seem to be hindered in the least by being restricted to the US.
They are doing quite well. It's the "base"...the racing, the drivers accessibility & relationship with the fans, etc. Also, it's cars. Motorcycles just aren't that appealling to a lot folks.

And yeah, betting would open a new venue, but I don't see it as big draw for the betting types.
Again, an interest and perception thing. Auto racing is just more "big time"/big money. People with money want to be associated with other "money"-if ya know what I mean.
I can hear it now man...kid working his way up on minis or a 125...

"yeah, that nephew of mine has a little dirt bike he rides all around the place out back, thing sounds like a chain saw....har har,..."

Rupert X
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7/10/2010 11:53am

I'm not convinced that there is - or ever will be - a HUGE market for mx, live or delayed -

on TV. I don't fault the powers-that-be for continually trying though, in fact I heartily

applaud the most recent efforts, it's impressive ,

Where WE ARE missing the boat though, is in our selling of SUPERCROSS as a

live SATURDAY NIGHT staple on television. I am fully confident - that a well

produced, exceptionally "ORCHESTRATED" and executed winter/ early-spring

LIVE SATURDAY NIGHT SUPERCROSS series - that was consistently exciting and

professionally produced, would be a ratings hit (especially after a couple seasons

of development and honing).
observer
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7/10/2010 12:09pm
Rupert X wrote:
I'm not convinced that there is - or ever will be - a HUGE market for mx, live or delayed - on TV. I don't fault...

I'm not convinced that there is - or ever will be - a HUGE market for mx, live or delayed -

on TV. I don't fault the powers-that-be for continually trying though, in fact I heartily

applaud the most recent efforts, it's impressive ,

Where WE ARE missing the boat though, is in our selling of SUPERCROSS as a

live SATURDAY NIGHT staple on television. I am fully confident - that a well

produced, exceptionally "ORCHESTRATED" and executed winter/ early-spring

LIVE SATURDAY NIGHT SUPERCROSS series - that was consistently exciting and

professionally produced, would be a ratings hit (especially after a couple seasons

of development and honing).
Good points Rup. Always enjoy your takes.

And I would agree totally. I think SX is THE venue to showcase the sport. No question.
My concern with that route is the "poisoning" that'll usher motocross to it's ultimate destiny...stadium only racing. The handwriting is on the wall to me. And I'd bet with you too...
Sad but true. And I don't see any way around it. I sure hope I'm wrong.

The Shop

plowboy
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7/10/2010 1:08pm
As per usual, Rup hits another one outta the park. A back story on the riders, teams, sponsors...some drama, sorrow, tragedy, glory....moms/dads, sisters/bros, friends and hangers-on. Our riders are exactly the same age as the demographic the sport (at least supercross) needs to explode. I don't care if they are only casual fans or whatever. If they buy bikes and equipment, T-shirts, shoes, sunglasses, whatever... that can only improve the overall health of the sport (sponsors). Even if outdoor moto is only indirectly infused by it's mutated clone...it's gotta be a good thing...right?
Sunhouse
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7/10/2010 1:27pm
Why are people so obsessed with making the sport grow? It hasn´t gotten any better as it has grown, it has only lost its roots. Corporations are taking over the sport and everything is about money. I´m glad the sport is relatively small, and I wouldn´t mind if it became a little smaller. I see no reason to sell out to the public. If people like it, they will follow it. I found the sport, I liked it, I started riding. I don´t want to have to talk people over. In fact, that will only bring bigger assholes to this sport.

Screw NASCAR, it´s the most boring redneck sport in the world, and if anything, NASCAR can have a couple of thousands of "our" rednecks too.
Pdub
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7/10/2010 1:29pm
My take? MX or any other form of motorcycle racing will never reach the same levels of popularity in the US because America is largely anti-motorcycle... and no, the Harley love/hate dynamic doesn't count.
plowboy
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7/10/2010 1:43pm
Sunhouse...for the most part I agree with you. I'm talking about using Supercross to keep the Outdoors alive. The stadiums are already 90% about the flat biller crowd having someplace to hang out with others of their ilk. I'm not denegrading the racers but most of the audience could care less. If even some of the money from SX keeps MX alive then I say...OK. I don't really want to see the crowd from SX at an outdoors either but the money has to come from somewhere.
Cory976
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7/10/2010 1:49pm
I like that our sport isn't mainstream! That's what's so BAD ASS about it.
KAWboy14
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7/10/2010 2:21pm
when the big dogs flipped moto back to the little dogs....that told the whole story!
feeble
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7/10/2010 2:40pm
IMO, what they should do is shrink the tracks to where they can fit into... say a stadium , then everyone can see the race. they can pack more fans into a smaller area; strategically positioning fending areas where the promoter can make alot more money. statistically, ticket prices and attendance go up based on the size of the jumps and occurance of debilitating crashes, so the jumps need to be just stupid and us can see some cool carnage. i think if they did these things, then motocross would be more mainstream.
jaeckle
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7/10/2010 3:09pm
The best thing about this sport is that it is underground. Outdoor Nationals are the best things on earth to attend. If you sit at home and watch on TV of course you will come to the conclusion the sport is doomed. Fuggers don't capture the essence of the sport. To costly at this point. Maybe someday. Every race should look like the TGO series when aired on TV or please, please, stop filming them.
drummer dude
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7/10/2010 3:14pm
observer wrote:
Guys...the brutal facts are, IMO, motocross simply never will garner the TV, fan base/attention that NASCAR or even motorcycle road racing does. All one needs to...
Guys...the brutal facts are, IMO, motocross simply never will garner the TV, fan base/attention that NASCAR or even motorcycle road racing does. All one needs to do is look at the motocross world scenery nowadays(look at the advertisements, all over the internet & magazines-many cases kinda goofy huh?), can you imagine the world of RCR, JGR, Gannasi, Hendricks, Rousch racing operating/advertising in such a manner? Me neither.
Let's face it, our target audience is the flat billed cap/kids in there teens and early/mid 20s(which Co sponsers in our sport have assisted in steering it in that direction). Not exactly the deeper pocket target audience corporations have in there crosshairs. NASCAR, on the other hand, has the tiger by the tail. They've done a marvelous job with there fan base/target audience and marketing the sport. Additionally, there's some awfully good racing going on.

The simple fact is, while we've made big strides since I watched Weinert beat the Euros in the mud back in 71 or 72(forget), motocross will never be an attraction like NASCAR or, in my opinion, motorcycle road racing. Simply because of the perception(or lack of)-of the casual(beer in hand)Sat or Sun TV channel switching audience(also lack of advertising space on bike is an issue, to some extent).

SX is the biggest splash for this sport. Lets hoards of people stumble in at the stadiums at $35-55(or more)a head, guzzle beer/stuff hot dogs/nachos in there mouths(@5-6 bucks or more/a piece), in the comfort of a stadium with excellent viewing in just about any seat. EVERYBODY makes big $. Which is what it's ALL about anymore. Regardless of the distruction of the SPORT of motocross, money is the driver here.

The dirty little fact is motocross just isn't that interesting to most casual observers.
Sad but true.
What's your take? Solutions??
i like what you wrote. it makes alot of sense. sad but true? you bet!!!!!!
Dropbear
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7/10/2010 3:21pm
I truly believe you really have to be a rider or have at least ridden an MX bike, dirt bike even MTB/BMX to get Motocross.

I was watching a SX event on pay TV recently with a friend who is an absolute sports nut , Rugby, AFL, Cricket etc. It was a great race, I was jumping out of my chair and explaining but all he saw was motorbikes doing jumps.(Does SX really need 10 jumps on every straight??)

He tried to like it but he has never ridden a bike and just could not relate and got bored.

I think that is the problem. Everyone has thrown or kicked a ball, and I guess everyone drives a car , so MX is going to never be mainstream.
7/10/2010 5:54pm
observer wrote:
Guys...the brutal facts are, IMO, motocross simply never will garner the TV, fan base/attention that NASCAR or even motorcycle road racing does. All one needs to...
Guys...the brutal facts are, IMO, motocross simply never will garner the TV, fan base/attention that NASCAR or even motorcycle road racing does. All one needs to do is look at the motocross world scenery nowadays(look at the advertisements, all over the internet & magazines-many cases kinda goofy huh?), can you imagine the world of RCR, JGR, Gannasi, Hendricks, Rousch racing operating/advertising in such a manner? Me neither.
Let's face it, our target audience is the flat billed cap/kids in there teens and early/mid 20s(which Co sponsers in our sport have assisted in steering it in that direction). Not exactly the deeper pocket target audience corporations have in there crosshairs. NASCAR, on the other hand, has the tiger by the tail. They've done a marvelous job with there fan base/target audience and marketing the sport. Additionally, there's some awfully good racing going on.

The simple fact is, while we've made big strides since I watched Weinert beat the Euros in the mud back in 71 or 72(forget), motocross will never be an attraction like NASCAR or, in my opinion, motorcycle road racing. Simply because of the perception(or lack of)-of the casual(beer in hand)Sat or Sun TV channel switching audience(also lack of advertising space on bike is an issue, to some extent).

SX is the biggest splash for this sport. Lets hoards of people stumble in at the stadiums at $35-55(or more)a head, guzzle beer/stuff hot dogs/nachos in there mouths(@5-6 bucks or more/a piece), in the comfort of a stadium with excellent viewing in just about any seat. EVERYBODY makes big $. Which is what it's ALL about anymore. Regardless of the distruction of the SPORT of motocross, money is the driver here.

The dirty little fact is motocross just isn't that interesting to most casual observers.
Sad but true.
What's your take? Solutions??
thats amazing lets put you in charge.
WhKnuckle
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7/10/2010 6:27pm
People always bring up Nascar as an example of success, and in pure monetary terms it is, but if you've watched many races over the years, you'd see that the monetary success came at the price of the soul of the sport. Nascar decided a few years ago that they wanted the championship to come down to a dramatic series win at the last race, so they forced all the drivers to essentially start the season all over with 10 rounds to go. They decided they wanted every race to come down to a last-lap pass for the win so they demand that they all basically drive the same car - with the result that you wind up with 40 cars driving around at 180 MPH in the space of a Wendy's parking lot. And if any race is coming to the finish with a leader way ahead, they find a reason for a yellow flag to group them back up, even for something as minor as a piece of insulation laying on the track apron.

Nascar would never stand for RC or Stewart going 24-0. They'd never stand for Pro Circuit winning all the 250F races. No matter how hard Ryan Dungey trains, they'd find a way to handicap him or his team until the other guys beat him.

Nascar is barely even a series any more. It's basically professional wrestling at 180 MPH. The drivers might as well draw straws for the winner's trophy.

While you're thinking up ways to make motocross grow, keep in mind that the sport has to continue to be a "sport".
mag23
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7/10/2010 6:33pm
trust me when I say I'm a sucker for some nice ass, but the 30 second girls, wagging their ass on TV is classless, WWF, garbage... I never really noticed until I convinced my mother to watch a race on TV... sure as shit, first thing, some hooch with a sign, waggin her nice ass. These are the best racers in the world, cheapening the show illustrates the level we're still at...
Pdub
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7/10/2010 7:02pm
jaeckle wrote:
The best thing about this sport is that it is underground. Outdoor Nationals are the best things on earth to attend. If you sit at home...
The best thing about this sport is that it is underground. Outdoor Nationals are the best things on earth to attend. If you sit at home and watch on TV of course you will come to the conclusion the sport is doomed. Fuggers don't capture the essence of the sport. To costly at this point. Maybe someday. Every race should look like the TGO series when aired on TV or please, please, stop filming them.
Right on.

And Kawboy nailed it, too.
7/10/2010 7:56pm
mag23 wrote:
trust me when I say I'm a sucker for some nice ass, but the 30 second girls, wagging their ass on TV is classless, WWF, garbage...
trust me when I say I'm a sucker for some nice ass, but the 30 second girls, wagging their ass on TV is classless, WWF, garbage... I never really noticed until I convinced my mother to watch a race on TV... sure as shit, first thing, some hooch with a sign, waggin her nice ass. These are the best racers in the world, cheapening the show illustrates the level we're still at...
True That,
And whats-his-name SCREAMING riders names in that WWF voice...
Is there anyone in attendance that says "man I love it when he does that?"
The freeken music turned up so loud that its pure static...
And a million dB 4skins...
Yea, all that helps attract the casual fan.
I know this thread is targeted more about TV coverage, but try introducing someone by taking them to a race and see how long it takes till they get a screaming headache.
observer
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7/10/2010 10:21pm
Some good points there guys...
Like I said, the driver is money and it's clear(painfully) they are calling the shots. It's not so much the growing of the sport, as it is the direction the sport is being steered(off a clift IMO)that I'm concerned with. I do think they can do better with the race calling/TV format, and personally would make some changes.
I just hope the outdoor Natls manage to hang on.
'shougal in 2 wks! woo-hoo!
Thanks.
Trip
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7/10/2010 10:41pm
I've said this a time or two on here, but here goes again anyway....

It's the age thing. The riders are retired by the time most other pro athletes are in their prime. I've had the conversation with non moto fans, and they see it as a "kids" sport.

What I don't get is why the powers that be want to take the was nascar does things and bring it to mx? If they are going to follow the nascar pattern, they need to follow the whole thing, not just bits and pieces of it. Nascar works because they have a solid foundation. Mx and sx? Well, they can't even agree on the names of the classes...

7/10/2010 11:24pm
Sunhouse wrote:
Why are people so obsessed with making the sport grow? It hasn´t gotten any better as it has grown, it has only lost its roots. Corporations...
Why are people so obsessed with making the sport grow? It hasn´t gotten any better as it has grown, it has only lost its roots. Corporations are taking over the sport and everything is about money. I´m glad the sport is relatively small, and I wouldn´t mind if it became a little smaller. I see no reason to sell out to the public. If people like it, they will follow it. I found the sport, I liked it, I started riding. I don´t want to have to talk people over. In fact, that will only bring bigger assholes to this sport.

Screw NASCAR, it´s the most boring redneck sport in the world, and if anything, NASCAR can have a couple of thousands of "our" rednecks too.
x2
Fat Fingers
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7/10/2010 11:56pm
Its got nothing to do with saturdays or sundays, riders age, 30 second board girls, announcers, tattoo's or four strokes.

Unless you "get it", motocross is boring.
7/11/2010 12:20am
Make a teams race at every motocross / supercross and it will add entertainment points for the average punter...
Riders will be getting blocked / use team tactics left / right and center- it will be great.
RMZ819
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7/11/2010 4:39am
Motocross will get bigger if DC does not fuck with his new age rule. The sport needs smarter riders not faster riders. As the sports sits right now, by the time a rider gets to the age where they have the ability to sell the sport they are retired. If you look at the big picture, What can the riders in this sport sell outside of energy drinks?? Its not like this sport has 20 Trey Canards running around that have a brain and a adults demeanor.

IMO, The athletes in our sport are the dumbest athletes of any sport X's 100
I bet there are only a few home schooled under 20 yr old riders that could score a 9th grade level anything if they were tested.


the_wood109
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7/11/2010 4:50am
Dropbear wrote:
I truly believe you really have to be a rider or have at least ridden an MX bike, dirt bike even MTB/BMX to get Motocross. I...
I truly believe you really have to be a rider or have at least ridden an MX bike, dirt bike even MTB/BMX to get Motocross.

I was watching a SX event on pay TV recently with a friend who is an absolute sports nut , Rugby, AFL, Cricket etc. It was a great race, I was jumping out of my chair and explaining but all he saw was motorbikes doing jumps.(Does SX really need 10 jumps on every straight??)

He tried to like it but he has never ridden a bike and just could not relate and got bored.

I think that is the problem. Everyone has thrown or kicked a ball, and I guess everyone drives a car , so MX is going to never be mainstream.
I think that is a huge part of it. I've witnessed this in a slightly different direction. I used to take buddies out riding on one of my spare bikes. After riding they were much more interested in watching it because they became clued in on what it was like. Every one of them that I taught how to ride said the same thing "I never knew it was like that."
burnside
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7/11/2010 5:42am
RMZ819 wrote:
Motocross will get bigger if DC does not fuck with his new age rule. The sport needs smarter riders not faster riders. As the sports sits...
Motocross will get bigger if DC does not fuck with his new age rule. The sport needs smarter riders not faster riders. As the sports sits right now, by the time a rider gets to the age where they have the ability to sell the sport they are retired. If you look at the big picture, What can the riders in this sport sell outside of energy drinks?? Its not like this sport has 20 Trey Canards running around that have a brain and a adults demeanor.

IMO, The athletes in our sport are the dumbest athletes of any sport X's 100
I bet there are only a few home schooled under 20 yr old riders that could score a 9th grade level anything if they were tested.


I agree with you there. People talk about class with the 30 sec girls etc, but what good is cleaning up the image of the sport if the stars of it are a bunch of uneducated, spoilt, sheltered, red neck teenagers that can barely string a coherent sentence together without thanking God and their tires.

In my opinion, TV coverage holds the keys to the growth. I'm watching Formula One now. There was an hour of behind the scenes coverage before the race even started (same with football matches), and thanks to that, I give a shit who wins and am glad Webber is in the lead and will be rooting for him. If the average Joe tuned into MX and saw 40 guys buzzing around, he'd think its neat at first but soon get desensitised and switch over.

I think it takes this kind of indulgent coverage to rope people in and hold their attention. If motocross has a bigger TV slot, amazing packages covering the back stories and rivalries I think you'd get (and keep) more viewers. If MX had a TV package as in depth as this F1 race I'm watching, normal viewers at home would just presume its a legit, credible mainstream sport. Easier said than done when theres dozens of sports competing for the spot light each week.

I also wonder if the format of MX might work against it.. Ie. 4 separate races rather than 'one' big race/match/fight etc.
WhKnuckle
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7/11/2010 5:53am
In the final analysis, MX has a limited audience, mostly made up of other riders and their families/friends. It's like Dick Mann said way back in the 60s, "Motocross isn't a sport for the average American spectator. The average American spectator wants to sit in a comfortable seat with a cold beer and a hot hot dog and just move his eyes to watch the game. They don't want to walk up and down hills and trudge through the mud to watch it." Besides that, TV just makes everything look flat and easy - then you go to the races and see how hard it is.

MX has a built-in, passionate audience, but it's not likely to attract millions of non-participant followers. The good news is, we're finding that people can participate in the sport for a very long time, unlike football or even baseball. We're pretty dependent on participants to support the sport, but if we can be more careful about track layouts and rules, we can keep guys riding into their 60s. Imagine - a kid rides his first race at maybe 10 or so and keeps riding for 50 YEARS. What a great sport!
burnside
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7/11/2010 6:35am
WhKnuckle wrote:
In the final analysis, MX has a limited audience, mostly made up of other riders and their families/friends. It's like Dick Mann said way back in...
In the final analysis, MX has a limited audience, mostly made up of other riders and their families/friends. It's like Dick Mann said way back in the 60s, "Motocross isn't a sport for the average American spectator. The average American spectator wants to sit in a comfortable seat with a cold beer and a hot hot dog and just move his eyes to watch the game. They don't want to walk up and down hills and trudge through the mud to watch it." Besides that, TV just makes everything look flat and easy - then you go to the races and see how hard it is.

MX has a built-in, passionate audience, but it's not likely to attract millions of non-participant followers. The good news is, we're finding that people can participate in the sport for a very long time, unlike football or even baseball. We're pretty dependent on participants to support the sport, but if we can be more careful about track layouts and rules, we can keep guys riding into their 60s. Imagine - a kid rides his first race at maybe 10 or so and keeps riding for 50 YEARS. What a great sport!
After a 5 year hiatus riding BMX.. I have to say that is one of my favourite things about MX, at any given practice track you'll find generations of riders. Awesome. A guy in his 40s at a skatepark here in the UK would be considered a pedophile haha. Not that I'm in my 40s mind.
wow123
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7/11/2010 7:38am Edited Date/Time 7/11/2010 7:40am
Look back at what "On Any Sunday" did for the sport back in the 70's

MX was closer to soccer in popularity then imo



In a way kicked the 70's boom off,



Since then there's been a kick from sx and its tv coverage



then fmx and the extreme sport stuff.



In general its holding it own but when you shift out of the dirt bike scene

and meet people, they know or care little about it.



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