The 350 out-powered the 450's...

pmcc
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pmcc
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:55am
...Cairoli holeshoted that 1st moto by about 5 bike lengths!!! The futures bright the future is orange
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jamma10
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jamma10 7/4/2010 5:26am
7/4/2010 5:26am
And it went on to win the moto in a wet and muddy Sweden.

But we'd better not mention that incase it contradicts the negative 350 threads.
bobby397
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bobby397 7/4/2010 5:31am
7/4/2010 5:31am
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its not the bike......
jamma10
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jamma10 7/4/2010 5:37am
7/4/2010 5:37am
Alessi probaby feels as though the whole world is against him right now. Sure he doesnt do himself many favours, but even for someone as self confident as he appears to be he must be struggling mentally.
bobby397
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bobby397 7/4/2010 5:43am
7/4/2010 5:43am
yep, he may be reading vitalmx.com? that would break his confidence! lol

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RMZ819
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RMZ819 7/4/2010 5:47am
7/4/2010 5:47am
If AC was not killing it on the 350 the Alessi's would be bitching about the bike bigtime.

AC is Mikes biggest nightmare not Dungey,Reed ect...

Its hard to bitch when the 350 the other guy is racing is kicking ass.
bobby397
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bobby397 7/4/2010 5:49am
7/4/2010 5:49am
good point!
burnside
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burnside 7/4/2010 5:51am
7/4/2010 5:51am
TC doesn't count in the USA, didn't you know?
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Racer111 7/4/2010 6:31am
7/4/2010 6:31am
bobby397 wrote:
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its...
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its not the bike......
I actually think it is more of the case that AC22 knows how to set up a bike and he also is allowed to run a full on "WORKS" bike. I gaurantee you that his bike is a lot more trick than Alessi's is.
Bookmark
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Bookmark 7/4/2010 6:58am
7/4/2010 6:58am
pmcc wrote:
...Cairoli holeshoted that 1st moto by about 5 bike lengths!!! The futures bright the future is orange
Thats because Cairoli's KTM in not a 350. FIM does not have a rule keeping teams from changing the bore and stroke, Cairoli is getting holeshots and is leading the points.
Alessi's KTM is a 350. AMA has a rule that say's teams can not change the bore a stoke. Alessi is getting smoked off the start gate and on tracks were ther's traction.

You can't look at the MX-1 class and compare that to the AMA nationals. The rules are way different. They allow works bikes in Europe.
kongols
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kongols 7/4/2010 7:07am
7/4/2010 7:07am
Cairoli just nailed another holeshot on that piece of shit 350Whistling Whistling Whistling
Myke
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Myke 7/4/2010 7:25am
7/4/2010 7:25am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2010 7:26am
Cairoli's bike is a "works" bike not the same as Alessi's bike.

I do still think it's close to 350 cc's tho.
kongols
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kongols 7/4/2010 7:33am
7/4/2010 7:33am
Myke wrote:
Cairoli's bike is a "works" bike not the same as Alessi's bike.

I do still think it's close to 350 cc's tho.
But 450 is ''works'' too, isn`t it?
Dirt_Dawg 7/4/2010 7:38am
7/4/2010 7:38am
cant they just throw a 450 motor in there? nobody would knowWink
flarider
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flarider 7/4/2010 7:46am
7/4/2010 7:46am
Truth is, unless you work for KTM, you really have no idea what engine size or internal modifications there are to Tony's bike.

I like the 350 concept, as I think 450 is too big, but my comment above stands

You have no idea what's really going on inside his engine
edub
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edub 7/4/2010 8:09am
7/4/2010 8:09am
Bookmark wrote:
Thats because Cairoli's KTM in not a 350. FIM does not have a rule keeping teams from changing the bore and stroke, Cairoli is getting holeshots...
Thats because Cairoli's KTM in not a 350. FIM does not have a rule keeping teams from changing the bore and stroke, Cairoli is getting holeshots and is leading the points.
Alessi's KTM is a 350. AMA has a rule that say's teams can not change the bore a stoke. Alessi is getting smoked off the start gate and on tracks were ther's traction.

You can't look at the MX-1 class and compare that to the AMA nationals. The rules are way different. They allow works bikes in Europe.
Saying the 350 is no 350 means KTM cheats and guys like Pit and Stefan are cheaters. You should think of these consequences of your statement.

You guys are just dreaming and far away the reality. You probably still think the earth is a disk.

Just call the 350 technical progress and accept the truth - the 350 is a 350!
mjskier
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mjskier 7/4/2010 8:09am
7/4/2010 8:09am
bobby397 wrote:
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its...
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its not the bike......
AC would get smoked the same as Mikey is. All it shows is that the Euros are slower than the AMA guys and can't even beat a 350.
Look at the US GP: Townley won moto 2 and he most likely would have won moto 1 if Mike hadn't parked him. And he is riding for a satellite team. How many motos has Townley won in the US this year?
Dirt_Dawg 7/4/2010 8:14am
7/4/2010 8:14am
bobby397 wrote:
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its...
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its not the bike......
mjskier wrote:
AC would get smoked the same as Mikey is. All it shows is that the Euros are slower than the AMA guys and can't even beat...
AC would get smoked the same as Mikey is. All it shows is that the Euros are slower than the AMA guys and can't even beat a 350.
Look at the US GP: Townley won moto 2 and he most likely would have won moto 1 if Mike hadn't parked him. And he is riding for a satellite team. How many motos has Townley won in the US this year?
watcha talkin bout willis?Woohoo
flarider
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flarider 7/4/2010 8:21am
7/4/2010 8:21am
edub wrote:
Saying the 350 is no 350 means KTM cheats and guys like Pit and Stefan are cheaters. You should think of these consequences of your statement...
Saying the 350 is no 350 means KTM cheats and guys like Pit and Stefan are cheaters. You should think of these consequences of your statement.

You guys are just dreaming and far away the reality. You probably still think the earth is a disk.

Just call the 350 technical progress and accept the truth - the 350 is a 350!
How could that be considered "cheating?"

They're listed as the smallest displacement of all their competitors

No one suggested Tony's racing a 750cc engine, it was only suggested that maybe it is not exactly a 350cc engine, they are works bikes and testing and experimentation is part of the process and their advantage to US racing

Even if Tony's displacement was 400cc, instead of 350cc, they would not be "cheating"

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JackLHyde
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JackLHyde 7/4/2010 8:23am
7/4/2010 8:23am
Bookmark wrote:
Thats because Cairoli's KTM in not a 350. FIM does not have a rule keeping teams from changing the bore and stroke, Cairoli is getting holeshots...
Thats because Cairoli's KTM in not a 350. FIM does not have a rule keeping teams from changing the bore and stroke, Cairoli is getting holeshots and is leading the points.
Alessi's KTM is a 350. AMA has a rule that say's teams can not change the bore a stoke. Alessi is getting smoked off the start gate and on tracks were ther's traction.

You can't look at the MX-1 class and compare that to the AMA nationals. The rules are way different. They allow works bikes in Europe.
Sure, what's why everybody runs the same spec in the Nationals. How many bikes get checked or even protested on a regular basis? I bet there are lots of guys running big bores.
Your claim on works bikes is irrelevant also. The 450s are as trick as the 350 is.
WR5
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WR5 7/4/2010 8:24am
7/4/2010 8:24am
Last year AC`s Yamaha was a 400cc bike, don`t doubt that the KTM is a 400cc bike too who knows!
DrSweden
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DrSweden 7/4/2010 8:28am
7/4/2010 8:28am
This seems to be a championship in speculation around here. Here's my contribution. I really wonder how a works KTM engine would differ from MA version. There's a engine case magic going on in the GPs? Gold cases and super turbo bearings?

Remember when AC won on the Yamaha before he switched to KTM he had a out-bored 250F engine. I think it was a 350, so in his case he really digs smaller engines...
lappedrider
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lappedrider 7/4/2010 8:40am
7/4/2010 8:40am
Why would KTM be using if different displacement? I would think the point of the "works" bike is further develop the production bikes. They have very publicly committed to the 350. I just cant see them screwing around with an engine they have no plans on selling to the public.
JackLHyde
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JackLHyde 7/4/2010 8:49am
7/4/2010 8:49am
Let them run whatever they want in the GP's, as long as it's making good power for the average rider, which I believe it will. I still haven't met a weekend warrior going for a world championship. If you don't like it, buy a 450. I think it really is that simple.
Myke
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Myke 7/4/2010 9:41am
7/4/2010 9:41am
lappedrider wrote:
Why would KTM be using if different displacement? I would think the point of the "works" bike is further develop the production bikes. They have very...
Why would KTM be using if different displacement? I would think the point of the "works" bike is further develop the production bikes. They have very publicly committed to the 350. I just cant see them screwing around with an engine they have no plans on selling to the public.
I agree here. They could legally run a larger engine in AC's bike but I highly doubt it's much larger.

If anything maybe a different bore and stroke combo and 20cc at max.
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Eywa 7/4/2010 10:43am
7/4/2010 10:43am
bobby397 wrote:
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its...
hopefully AC222 will come over next year and show what he can do on the bike, alessi is seems to be having some personal issues! its not the bike......
...or you could say that Cairoli doesnt have to race against Dungey, Townley, Reed, Short, Grant, or Metcalf every week either.
munsch121
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munsch121 7/4/2010 10:50am
7/4/2010 10:50am
Comparing 2 different riders on the same bike doesn't mean shit IMO. The ONLY THING I am sure of is, last year mike was the guy, the year before that...the other guy. This year he changed bikes and is an "also ran" top ten guy......
tunedlength
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tunedlength 7/4/2010 10:54am
7/4/2010 10:54am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2010 10:54am
flarider wrote:
Truth is, unless you work for KTM, you really have no idea what engine size or internal modifications there are to Tony's bike. I like the...
Truth is, unless you work for KTM, you really have no idea what engine size or internal modifications there are to Tony's bike.

I like the 350 concept, as I think 450 is too big, but my comment above stands

You have no idea what's really going on inside his engine
But But... the 350 haters are using words like "I gaurantee" and "its a fact" So they must be right.

IMO, recently the biggest difference between the AC bike and the MA bike is one spends a little more time at WOT.
kaboom645 7/4/2010 11:11am
7/4/2010 11:11am
You guys do relise that KTM is also making a 450sx in addition to the 350. Same bike but without EFI. If the 450 is homologated, and MA800 thought he was underpowered, what makes you think he wouldnt switch to the 450. Who is to say they havent switched to the 450, and just havent made it public yet. As long as the 450 is homologated, MA could race the 450 at tracks where the extra power would be needed, and switch back to the 350 for the tracks that favor a lighter more flickable bike..

A more realistic senario is that MA is horrible at setting up bikes, and hasnt found a setup that works well.. In years past, he had other team mates that were on the same bike, plus a previous model year bike that was similar to the one he was on so he had alot of resources to get a base setting of what works. The 2011 KTM is an all new bike, so there are no "last years settings" to go by for a base setting. I also dont believe that other than a few test riders, there are no other riders in the US on the 350. IMO Europe doesnt really apply due to the difference in tracks and the rules. A perfect example of this was in 2009 when all the Honda riders were literally scared to ride their bikes and struggled the first part of the season till they found a setup that worked for them
Sunhouse
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Sunhouse 7/4/2010 1:58pm
7/4/2010 1:58pm
This is BS. Alessi´s bike was KTMs use of th exemption rule, which means you can ride a works bike for an entire season to help produce the bike. ALessi and AC are both riding works bikes. Hell, the 350 wasn´t even produced to the public back when the 350 was introduced to the public in pre season races anyway.
Stop whining, ALessi has physical problems atm, which I hope he will figure out.
AC rules on the 350, and would do so anywhere
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mosslander 7/4/2010 2:19pm
7/4/2010 2:19pm
jamma10 wrote:
And it went on to win the moto in a wet and muddy Sweden. But we'd better not mention that incase it contradicts the negative 350...
And it went on to win the moto in a wet and muddy Sweden.

But we'd better not mention that incase it contradicts the negative 350 threads.
Well if it was muddy it must been rain. yesterday was +35 celcius in chadow and today it was cloudi and +25 celcius so the mud you see is in your eyes

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