First meeting of KTM restructuring, read link for details

stillwelding
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MxAddic
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12/20/2024 10:43am

Adminstrator- "To reduce costs, a withdrawal from MotoGP, Moto3/Moto2 is planned."

KTM- " will be able to continue racing activities."

bahgdadbob.jpg?VersionId=5IKFE fuUtTHC
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12/20/2024 8:36pm

“In order to reduce production costs, the possibility of (partial) relocation of production is being examined.”

Chiiiiiina bikes are coming. 

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Team403
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12/20/2024 8:47pm

“In order to reduce production costs, the possibility of (partial) relocation of production is being examined.”

Chiiiiiina bikes are coming. 

Let’s hope not - if so the premium brand connotation is done.   

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The Shop

MxAddic
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12/21/2024 2:35am

Pierer has lost control of his company (rightfully so) and is unwilling to accept the fact.

Not sure why they call it self administration other than making it sound better. Seems supervised to me.

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6
12/21/2024 3:20am

Ultimately they need to decide what they are. 

Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or are they a brand focused on profit and making budget bikes in Asia.

They had the perfect opportunity with their other brands to have one be the budget street and adv bikes whilst keeping KTMs made in Austria and exclusively the off-road/high end bikes.

It's interesting times but our sport is better off with them

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Team403
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12/21/2024 6:08am

I’d love to see how the racing budget is divided up between NA off-road, Europe off-road, and MotoGP?  Any guesses?  Seems like they spend a lot of dough in North America to promote scooter sales in 3rd world countries. 

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endurox
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12/21/2024 6:16am

It would be cheaper for RB just to sponsor a Ducati winning team. 

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Beagle
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12/21/2024 6:26am
Ultimately they need to decide what they are. Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or...

Ultimately they need to decide what they are. 

Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or are they a brand focused on profit and making budget bikes in Asia.

They had the perfect opportunity with their other brands to have one be the budget street and adv bikes whilst keeping KTMs made in Austria and exclusively the off-road/high end bikes.

It's interesting times but our sport is better off with them

Why would they have to choose though?

Honda has a broad range of 2 wheelers, selling a ton of small two wheelers in South East Asia (many of them made in this région) while having also very high end motorcycles.

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Johnny Ringo
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12/21/2024 6:28am
Ultimately they need to decide what they are. Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or...

Ultimately they need to decide what they are. 

Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or are they a brand focused on profit and making budget bikes in Asia.

They had the perfect opportunity with their other brands to have one be the budget street and adv bikes whilst keeping KTMs made in Austria and exclusively the off-road/high end bikes.

It's interesting times but our sport is better off with them

Beagle wrote:
Why would they have to choose though?Honda has a broad range of 2 wheelers, selling a ton of small two wheelers in South East Asia (many...

Why would they have to choose though?

Honda has a broad range of 2 wheelers, selling a ton of small two wheelers in South East Asia (many of them made in this région) while having also very high end motorcycles.

Honda is bigger

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Beagle
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12/21/2024 6:37am
Ultimately they need to decide what they are. Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or...

Ultimately they need to decide what they are. 

Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or are they a brand focused on profit and making budget bikes in Asia.

They had the perfect opportunity with their other brands to have one be the budget street and adv bikes whilst keeping KTMs made in Austria and exclusively the off-road/high end bikes.

It's interesting times but our sport is better off with them

Beagle wrote:
Why would they have to choose though?Honda has a broad range of 2 wheelers, selling a ton of small two wheelers in South East Asia (many...

Why would they have to choose though?

Honda has a broad range of 2 wheelers, selling a ton of small two wheelers in South East Asia (many of them made in this région) while having also very high end motorcycles.

Honda is bigger

Yeah you could say that in answer about any OEM other than Honda 🤣

Silas444
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12/21/2024 7:28am

The metaphor I'd use is the trajectory of a rocket. If its upward arc is too steep, it soon burns up all its fuel trying to maintain that overly-ambitious trajectory; and once it has, it falls back toward the ground and eventually crashes.

PMG needed to lower the arc of their growth, as for several years now, they were simply growing too fast. Due to Pierer's hubris, they didn't, and now they've run out of fuel (cash flow) and they've run out of sky to fly up into as well - so now they're falling back to earth like a burnt-up rocket.

How could anyone expect there to be a smooth landing? Myself, I just don'r see it. There will be usable pieces that can be picked through and made into something worthwhile - yes - but it isn't salvageable as a whole, let alone capable of continuing to grow at the pace it had been. 

Very sad, but oh wel, life goes on, with yet another lesson learned the hard way.

 

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Flatliner
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12/21/2024 7:56am

You can't miss payroll, while continuing multi million dollar racing operations.  Something will have to give.

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MxAddic
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12/21/2024 8:27am Edited Date/Time 12/21/2024 9:27am
Flatliner wrote:

You can't miss payroll, while continuing multi million dollar racing operations.  Something will have to give.

pierer

https://www.regionalsuche.at/wie-reich-ist-stefan-pierer-vermoegen-2024-oesterreich/

Wie-reich-ist-Stefan-Pierer-Vermoegen-2024-Oesterreich-758x433

"The founding of Cross Industries was an important moment for Stefan Pierer. It enabled him to combine companies and exploit synergies, thus increasing competitiveness."

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12/21/2024 8:42am
Ultimately they need to decide what they are. Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or...

Ultimately they need to decide what they are. 

Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or are they a brand focused on profit and making budget bikes in Asia.

They had the perfect opportunity with their other brands to have one be the budget street and adv bikes whilst keeping KTMs made in Austria and exclusively the off-road/high end bikes.

It's interesting times but our sport is better off with them

Beagle wrote:
Why would they have to choose though?Honda has a broad range of 2 wheelers, selling a ton of small two wheelers in South East Asia (many...

Why would they have to choose though?

Honda has a broad range of 2 wheelers, selling a ton of small two wheelers in South East Asia (many of them made in this région) while having also very high end motorcycles.

I actually thought of Honda when I was typing it. Honda are bigger and have a wider more longstanding reputation. Regardless of which sector people generally know honda for being reliable and dependable, and that perception hasn't changed despite manufacturing being moved out of Japan for most models.

For the last few years when I say I have a KTM people have been saying oh aren't they Chinese now, or telling me all the spare parts are Chinese etc. It doesnt matter what the truth is (I've never had any OEM part from China on my 17 250 or 19 300) That combined with reliability issues on newer models is absolutely awful for the image of a still very new brand in the scheme of things. Realistically 15 years ago KTM were oddball at best in every discipline other than enduro and rally, they haven't had long enough at the top to become stable and safe in the eyes of many. It's not my opinion really but it's how I've noticed other people perceive them. 

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englishman
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12/21/2024 8:59am Edited Date/Time 12/21/2024 9:04am

“ The AKV is the agency charged with handling the debts owed by KTM to its creditors “

“In a statement from a KTM spokesperson, they said they would be racing in 2025” 

This is important to keep in mind : AKV are handling the debts so what the KTM spokesperson says is irrelevant unless AKV have already decided they will permit KTM to continue to fund road racing which seemingly they have not :
 

The full list of restructuring proposals included in the AKV report include pulling out of ALL MotoGP / 2 & 3 activity.

Also interesting to note, several subsequent insolvencies of other KTM companies are now expected.


Multiple people to point fingers at in all this but how TF could the forecast department screw up so badly:

“The report also confirms that KTM's financial problems came as a result of building up production to meet demand which was predicted but never materialized.” 
 

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MxAddic
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12/21/2024 9:19am Edited Date/Time 12/21/2024 9:19am

"Also interesting to note, several subsequent insolvencies of other KTM companies are now expected."

sup 6.jpg?VersionId=EEEgsN0CvhDf9esntX7UQUFlf7
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NV825
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12/21/2024 9:33am
englishman wrote:
“ The AKV is the agency charged with handling the debts owed by KTM to its creditors ““In a statement from a KTM spokesperson, they said...

“ The AKV is the agency charged with handling the debts owed by KTM to its creditors “

“In a statement from a KTM spokesperson, they said they would be racing in 2025” 

This is important to keep in mind : AKV are handling the debts so what the KTM spokesperson says is irrelevant unless AKV have already decided they will permit KTM to continue to fund road racing which seemingly they have not :
 

The full list of restructuring proposals included in the AKV report include pulling out of ALL MotoGP / 2 & 3 activity.

Also interesting to note, several subsequent insolvencies of other KTM companies are now expected.


Multiple people to point fingers at in all this but how TF could the forecast department screw up so badly:

“The report also confirms that KTM's financial problems came as a result of building up production to meet demand which was predicted but never materialized.” 
 

My wild guess is that they have to keep saying they're racing until their racing holding companies for MotoGP, SMX, MXGP hit insolvency/bankruptcy for some sort of better protection purposes?

Maybe their racing companies may have enough cash on hand that's already been received from KTM AG, sponsors, savings, to make it through the 2025 season, but there will definitely be a domino effect when the parent company cuts off the majority of funds moving forward.

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MxAddic
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12/21/2024 9:37am
NV825 wrote:
My wild guess is that they have to keep saying they're racing until their racing holding companies for MotoGP, SMX, MXGP hit insolvency/bankruptcy for some sort...

My wild guess is that they have to keep saying they're racing until their racing holding companies for MotoGP, SMX, MXGP hit insolvency/bankruptcy for some sort of better protection purposes?

Maybe their racing companies may have enough cash on hand that's already been received from KTM AG, sponsors, savings, to make it through the 2025 season, but there will definitely be a domino effect when the parent company cuts off the majority of funds moving forward.

From 30'000 feet it looks like everything is funded until the 25th of Jan. when the courts can actually shut them down. This meeting was just for them to say yes we can make it or no we can't.

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NV825
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12/21/2024 9:55am
NV825 wrote:
My wild guess is that they have to keep saying they're racing until their racing holding companies for MotoGP, SMX, MXGP hit insolvency/bankruptcy for some sort...

My wild guess is that they have to keep saying they're racing until their racing holding companies for MotoGP, SMX, MXGP hit insolvency/bankruptcy for some sort of better protection purposes?

Maybe their racing companies may have enough cash on hand that's already been received from KTM AG, sponsors, savings, to make it through the 2025 season, but there will definitely be a domino effect when the parent company cuts off the majority of funds moving forward.

MxAddic wrote:
From 30'000 feet it looks like everything is funded until the 25th of Jan. when the courts can actually shut them down. This meeting was just...

From 30'000 feet it looks like everything is funded until the 25th of Jan. when the courts can actually shut them down. This meeting was just for them to say yes we can make it or no we can't.

Very true, but they still have to keep saying we’re racing until then. I don’t see this ending well for them at all.

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TeamGreen
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12/21/2024 10:19am

If we put more weight on AKV’s statements than we do KTM’s…

Looks like Bajaj will ultimately have more than 50% of the company…

SP will not retain control…

Production will shift to India and/or China…

KTM Group is really, really, really hoping that Red Bull swoops in and rescues their racing programs…

From the article..

At the meeting, it also emerged that KTM had found €700 million in investment from three partners. Though Pierer Mobility Co-CEO Gottfried Neumeister refused to name them, he did confirm that current minority stake holder Bajaj Industries was one of the parties interested. That could lead to Bajaj taking a larger stake in the company.

 

wrc777
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Fantasy
12/21/2024 10:49am

I am no fan of China but if done properly bike and/or component production could move there and result in the same or higher quality and lower prices. No one is complaining about Triumphs made in Thailand. The Japanese manufacturers are probably sourcing a lot of components from China and have been for a while. There are also countries other than China that production could move to. Design and testing could remain in Austria. Bike assembly might too. Japan is not a low cost country and the Japanese manufacturers can assemble competition bikes there and not go bankrupt. 

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wvumounty
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12/21/2024 10:51am

Maybe bet the “under” on SX wins for sexton 2025

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tek14
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12/21/2024 11:00am
Ultimately they need to decide what they are. Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or...

Ultimately they need to decide what they are. 

Are they a brand focused on racing, performance and making the best product they possibly can in Austria or are they a brand focused on profit and making budget bikes in Asia.

They had the perfect opportunity with their other brands to have one be the budget street and adv bikes whilst keeping KTMs made in Austria and exclusively the off-road/high end bikes.

It's interesting times but our sport is better off with them

If Bajaj takes control they will move more production to India and China. Once they were racing bike company now they will turn into making money and racing bikes are their heritage history. 

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MxAddic
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12/21/2024 11:29am
tek14 wrote:
If Bajaj takes control they will move more production to India and China. Once they were racing bike company now they will turn into making money...

If Bajaj takes control they will move more production to India and China. Once they were racing bike company now they will turn into making money and racing bikes are their heritage history. 

Bajaj, "Ready To Race"

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12/21/2024 11:35am
wvumounty wrote:

Maybe bet the “under” on SX wins for sexton 2025

They already stated earlier that they are halting R&D for their MotoGP program (that was far behind Ducati to begin with).  I would imagine that not much will be updated on Sexton’s bike until this mess straightens itself out one way or another.

NSP139
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12/21/2024 11:53am
wvumounty wrote:

Maybe bet the “under” on SX wins for sexton 2025

They already stated earlier that they are halting R&D for their MotoGP program (that was far behind Ducati to begin with).  I would imagine that not...

They already stated earlier that they are halting R&D for their MotoGP program (that was far behind Ducati to begin with).  I would imagine that not much will be updated on Sexton’s bike until this mess straightens itself out one way or another.

Wouldn't be surprised if Sexton's managers and many others are trying to get out of their deals so they can find something else!

tek14
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12/21/2024 11:53am
wvumounty wrote:

Maybe bet the “under” on SX wins for sexton 2025

They already stated earlier that they are halting R&D for their MotoGP program (that was far behind Ducati to begin with).  I would imagine that not...

They already stated earlier that they are halting R&D for their MotoGP program (that was far behind Ducati to begin with).  I would imagine that not much will be updated on Sexton’s bike until this mess straightens itself out one way or another.

Sexton is running KYB suspension anyway. 

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Zycki11
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12/21/2024 12:00pm

Can’t wait to see Chase at Star, he will do well on the Yamaha 

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