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What would their sales be at FULL retail pricing without the 30-40% discounts?
The whole 2 wheel industry is sick right now. That's why Suzuki is making just a few bikes a year, Kawasaki is doing massive year end discounts every year, and Honda and Yamaha aren't overproducing bikes like they used to.
Without SXS and Quad sales there would be a LOT of dealers that would cease to exist.
If you don't understand the danger of falling prices you don't understand economics on a macro level.
Actually, for Suzuki, they just published their quarterly report 3 weeks ago:
Global motorcycle sales up 7% year-over-year, based on strong performance in India and Latin America. +64,000 units over Q2 2023
Full year projection: 5% global motorcycle sales growth.
Motorcycle revenue up 12%, motorcycle operating profit up 44%
Bajaj reported annual numbers:
Domestic sales up by 400,000 units (more than KTM's entire annual production), year-over-year
Export sales down year over year
KTM unit sales 65,000 up from 53,000 for 2023
Total sales 3.6M units 2024 up from 3.4M for 2023
Yamaha:
Q3 unit sales up 13% year-over-year, forecast 12% for year
Full year motorcycle revenue forecast up 12% over 2024, driven by sales in Brazil, India, and Indonesia,
Margins increased by over a full percentage point over 2023
Now give me figures for the U.S. market...and for off road bikes.
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I don't have those numbers. You have to subscribe to trade journals for that.
But as far as KTM goes -- a large global brand whose majority of sales are street bikes and vast majority are outside of the US -- the sales (and revenue) figures are good historically for the brand, but just not at levels matching their ridiculous projections and insane debt load.
Wouldn't touch a KTM if they were 50% off. As a company, they have more problems than solutions.
Yeah fuck KTM. Choosing to go racing over paying employees, right before Christmas.
Always seems to work out that way at the end of the rope when you can no longer spend other folks money.
I was on the fence about ever buying another KTM.
My last one lasted around 18 hours from new before something let go in the bottom end. 'Goodwill' warranty still had me $2200 out of pocket to have it repaired (that was more on the dealer though). I still own it as I would never get what I paid back out of it.
Thinking about some of their factory workers getting screwed over, companies who will suffer huge losses or close up because KTM won't be able to pay back their debts? Reckless, hate to see it. That has swayed me to never buy another KTM ever again.
Yep, some of those employees’ lives are ruined. Bad time to get evicted. Of course, upper management has no idea what that’s like.
Not all manufacturers are having issues selling bikes. Yamaha seems to be doing OK.... https://www.rideapart.com/features/741042/yamaha-motorcycle-sales-q3-2024/
"Diving into motorcycle sales, growth in Brazil (23%), Vietnam (21%), India (16%), and Indonesia (11%) have helped propel the numbers upward year on year. For its part, sales in Europe/US/Japan (considered as one unit on this report) rose by eight percent. Sales were down slightly in Thailand, the Philippines, and China, but strong overall motorcycle sales across all markets combined still put Yamaha's sales figures for Q3 2024 ahead of the same period in 2023."
Not the same situation. In 81, Maico came out with the best Open class bike in history. The Hondas were a mess and i never saw a Kawi 420. It wasn’t revolutionary but it was “peak evolution” of an air cooled two stroke. The next year ‘82 they were single shock, heavy, and unreliable. Local pros were buying the last ‘81 Maicos because they knew nothing else was better. If the 82 was less weight and more reliable it would have ruled.
KTM just overproduced for reasons everybody knows in hindsight. No mojo lost on products.
Yamaha isn't doing ok in every segment of their business, or else I wouldn't have purchased a $5800 eMtb for $2300.
Geez. Tough crowd. They're not gonna nail it on everything. I think a lot of companies were wrong on the adoption of e-Bikes, and also the insanely crowded market it's become with all the Chinese stuff flooding the market. Very difficult market to penetrate if you're new to the game. One article I read talked about how Yamaha had done a good job at selling the correct bikes, in the appropriate markets. For example, not trying to sell $25K R1's in Asia where they like smaller and cheaper bikes. Some companies probably do this type of thing better than others, and since all these companies sell internationally all over the world, they gotta get that product mix right for all their different markets. Probably very tricky to do.
I used to think Yamaha focus'd too much on their street bikes, and seemed to be ignoring certain market segments that I wanted to see them produce a bike for. Evidently, they're smarter than me and have been doing it mostly correct here in the US with their current lineup. I just think it has some holes in it, but with sales up around 8% in this tough environment like ours, they must be pretty pleased.
Overall Yamaha is doing well, making a profit, manageable debt, something KTM can only dream of!
on a side note tho. KTM bicycles is its own company and has nothing to do with KTM motorcycles except its name. They are healthy financially.
I’m just hoping they do some good deals on these 265000 bikes they have sitting in a warehouse somewhere.
KTM bicycles is owned by Pierer Mobility, Pierer Mobility is the company that is insolvent, making all the companies they own insolvent.
Pit Row
Wrong lol
https://ktm-bikes.at/clarification
My mistake, Pierer Mobility owns Husqvarna, GASGAS and Felt bicycles...
yes, your mistake.
GasGas and Husqvarna bicycles are owned by KTM, right?
Sorry, didn't mean to make it sound like I was dogging them. Just bringing up the fact that it's a tough industry to be in altogether.
"No mojo lost on products."
You are entitled to believe that. I do not.
Yeah but racing is what sells bikes. Employees especially engineers are dime a dozen . There loosing there jobs at a high rate right now. Only good thing is a lot of blue collar riders r buying old 2st to race vet A to make some easy money. Your going to hear alot of crying at the track next yr by soft white collar riders
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