Craig/Deegan/Star

8/20/2024 2:27pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2024 4:55pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I just don’t see the point of running their own program/team when it seems like Star would do just about anything to make Haiden happy, seems...

I just don’t see the point of running their own program/team when it seems like Star would do just about anything to make Haiden happy, seems like a lot of extra expenses/stress for what?

GrapeApe wrote:
At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegans think they are worth, while still supporting a full 250/450 team. The private team idea removes...

At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegans think they are worth, while still supporting a full 250/450 team. The private team idea removes the financial ceiling the Deegans face on a manufacturer funded team, while also still enjoying factory equipment, technical support and training facilities. From Star's perspective, they are still attached to the Deegans but have the financial ability to fund the rest of their program. Win/win. 

I predict the same for the Lawrence brothers in the near future. Private Red Bull/Outback/Fosters/Raygun/Honda team with HRC bikes and technical support.

 

Rickyisms wrote:
“At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegan’s think they are worth”Maybe that’s the problem? Something is only worth what someone’s willing to...

“At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegan’s think they are worth”


Maybe that’s the problem? Something is only worth what someone’s willing to pay. If the Deegan’s or Lawrence’s are so appealing to sponsors outside the industry why don’t they try and get involved with Star/HRC? I think we overestimate how much they are “growing” the sport. I’d bet 95% of the kids packing Deegan’s pit aren’t new to the world of MX, They just finally found someone they can relate to and be a fan of. 

Existing contracts  that the team may have that conflict with any potential new brands and riders that have the potential to be super popular like Haiden and the Lawrences don't come along often.   Again, look at the situation with Kenny and the Progressive Suzuki team. 

 There may be somebody out there that would be willing to pay a bunch for Haiden to do things that other racers may also not be open to doing.  Conflicts in what the team owners are willing to do, or restrictions in place because of long-term sponsors with existing longer term contracts. 

 

For a team like Honda or Yamaha, they might just have some things that are set in stone and would conflict with some brands becoming a title sponsor.  Something that would take more money than doing there own team would to open up a Factory team to taking on a company as a title sponsor. 

 

 And then there is also the old personal part of making deals happen. And sometimes the right deal takes the right people to happen. And without those people in place, the deal will not happen.  I have wrapped vans for a body shop for the last 10 years. A change in management later I no longer wrap the vans. The quality, price, etc. was not an issue. The existing relationships the new manager had with another wrapper was the reason.  Without that new manager in place, that other company would not have been wrapping the vans.  

 

Brian might have some big money people who would only work with him. That have been burnt  or seen other brands burnt by dealing with a MX team in the past. Or may have no interest in MX if not for the Deegan's. What if say Youtube wanted to have their own team and have it be a weekly or 2 times a week show . A new channel based team. And produce it like that F1 thing everybody says MX needs.  Or what if Netflix, NBC, etc. have seen the Deegan's channel and wanted to build a show around the family and a team?  

 

Of course that Netflix show was just a random idea that came to me while writing this. But that type of way out of the box style of doing a team is the type of stuff that would be harder to do with a Factory team, but at the same time be worth doing on many levels. Brian helped turn FMX into something more than a halftime show.  Maybe I'm giving him too much credit , but really look at what they have all done so far. Brian has raised 2 top level racers. Who knows what Huck will do. Maybe He will end up going into more of the management side of stuff, or come out and be winning the 250 class when Haiden is in the 450 class. Or go fishing for a while. Interesting to think about though.  

 

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Herr Lich
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8/20/2024 2:31pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2024 2:32pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I just don’t see the point of running their own program/team when it seems like Star would do just about anything to make Haiden happy, seems...

I just don’t see the point of running their own program/team when it seems like Star would do just about anything to make Haiden happy, seems like a lot of extra expenses/stress for what?

GrapeApe wrote:
At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegans think they are worth, while still supporting a full 250/450 team. The private team idea removes...

At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegans think they are worth, while still supporting a full 250/450 team. The private team idea removes the financial ceiling the Deegans face on a manufacturer funded team, while also still enjoying factory equipment, technical support and training facilities. From Star's perspective, they are still attached to the Deegans but have the financial ability to fund the rest of their program. Win/win. 

I predict the same for the Lawrence brothers in the near future. Private Red Bull/Outback/Fosters/Raygun/Honda team with HRC bikes and technical support.

 

yak651 wrote:
If Star and/or HRC can’t afford a rider they may be over valuing themselves….i would think this would be a terrible time to this with bike...

If Star and/or HRC can’t afford a rider they may be over valuing themselves….i would think this would be a terrible time to this with bike and parts/gear sales slowing down. 

Is Star making any profit at all or even breaking even?  Unfortunately, like everything in this sport, normal things like public financial reporting don't seem to take place. Maybe Star are just massively in debt, or able to write off a lot of what they do by linking it to Bobby's car yards? 

Why anyone would want the headache of running a team when you're already on a perfectly good factory team is perplexing.  It seems like the Deegans would have enough leverage to get a good deal with one of the factories and still develop outside sponsors, and run their YouTube empire. On the other hand, if what OP says is true, the team would be just a marketing vehicle - which is all it is for the factories. 

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125Rider
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8/20/2024 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2024 2:37pm
sam hain wrote:
I'm curious if their will ever be a time in Haiden's career that Brian isn't constantly up his butt hole? I mean I get it, he's...

I'm curious if their will ever be a time in Haiden's career that Brian isn't constantly up his butt hole? I mean I get it, he's Brian's kid but the Lawrence bro's dad isn't around like Brian is. NBC has to go hunting for him for fans to even know he's around. In all the years MC was dominating I can't think of a time Jack was sharing the same shadow like Brian does with Haiden. At some point if Haiden is going to be his own man and go his own way he's going to have to put some slack in the rope between himself and the Deegan entourage IMO. Honestly, I don't think Haiden will ever do it, he's going to have mommy and daddy around when he retires and the sad part is I think he could be a better racer w/o his dad up his ass 24/7.

Not sure how you could possibly know what’s best for Haiden. He’s still only 18 years old. Which would make him around the age of a high school senior. He’s been very successful so far. With a super motocross championship and now an outdoor title that was clinched with 3 motos to go. It appears what the Deegan family is doing with their teenage son is working out very well. Again he’s only 18 years old.  I laughed at your post. Which is mostly nonsense. 🤦‍♂️😂😂

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Herr Lich
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8/20/2024 2:38pm
GrapeApe wrote:
At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegans think they are worth, while still supporting a full 250/450 team. The private team idea removes...

At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegans think they are worth, while still supporting a full 250/450 team. The private team idea removes the financial ceiling the Deegans face on a manufacturer funded team, while also still enjoying factory equipment, technical support and training facilities. From Star's perspective, they are still attached to the Deegans but have the financial ability to fund the rest of their program. Win/win. 

I predict the same for the Lawrence brothers in the near future. Private Red Bull/Outback/Fosters/Raygun/Honda team with HRC bikes and technical support.

 

yak651 wrote:
If Star and/or HRC can’t afford a rider they may be over valuing themselves….i would think this would be a terrible time to this with bike...

If Star and/or HRC can’t afford a rider they may be over valuing themselves….i would think this would be a terrible time to this with bike and parts/gear sales slowing down. 

GrapeApe wrote:
If the revenue they can earn from all avenues, less expenses not covered by Star/Yamaha, is more than Star can pay they are not over valuing...

If the revenue they can earn from all avenues, less expenses not covered by Star/Yamaha, is more than Star can pay they are not over valuing themselves. I have no idea how the numbers look but Deegan (or Mirtl) isn't going to take a leap of faith, he will put in the diligence and know their best plan. He's done pretty well for himself when it comes to these kind of business decisions. 

Just looking from the outside I think Mirtl is pretty overrated.  So far is oft quoted plan to make Jett a massive cross sport superstar hasn't really happened, not to mention the wider plan of 'growing' the sport (he and Gyspy Ho and Kenny's manager are the worst for the horseshit take that moto can be like F1). 

You'd have to be an absolute turd not to do well with Jett.  He's incredibly talented, young, charismatic, good looking etc.  I think Mirtl is riding Jett's innate abilities, not really adding that much to anything. 

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The Shop

Herr Lich
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8/20/2024 2:39pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I just don’t see the point of running their own program/team when it seems like Star would do just about anything to make Haiden happy, seems...

I just don’t see the point of running their own program/team when it seems like Star would do just about anything to make Haiden happy, seems like a lot of extra expenses/stress for what?

GrapeApe wrote:
At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegans think they are worth, while still supporting a full 250/450 team. The private team idea removes...

At some point Star simply cannot afford what the Deegans think they are worth, while still supporting a full 250/450 team. The private team idea removes the financial ceiling the Deegans face on a manufacturer funded team, while also still enjoying factory equipment, technical support and training facilities. From Star's perspective, they are still attached to the Deegans but have the financial ability to fund the rest of their program. Win/win. 

I predict the same for the Lawrence brothers in the near future. Private Red Bull/Outback/Fosters/Raygun/Honda team with HRC bikes and technical support.

 

soyMotero wrote:
I don't think HRC  wants the Lawrence's on a Customer Red Bull HRC bike winning races, they want to win races with them abroad a Honda...

I don't think HRC  wants the Lawrence's on a Customer Red Bull HRC bike winning races, they want to win races with them abroad a Honda HRC 450 with the corporate colors, Honda will never have problems to pay Jett and Hunter or make them happy, after all Honda is the biggest motorcycle manufacturer in the world, they are so loaded with cash that their MXGP, AMA SMX and WSBK programs don't have a title sponsor, no other OEM is wIlling to do that, plus they can also afford to compete in MotoGP and in F1, Honda wants to win with their racing división, HRC, not with a Customer.

Well put. 

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125Rider
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8/20/2024 2:40pm

Dazzy Lawrence is as involved 100%. He just doesn’t have a YouTube channel. 

Correct Dazzy is definitely heavily involved. As he should be. 

MxAddic
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8/20/2024 2:41pm

Who could put a price on the Deegan brand? Certainly Star Could not do that kind of money.

tat
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Herr Lich
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8/20/2024 2:41pm
Magoofan wrote:
If this happens.....the VItal Deegan lynchmob....

If this happens.....the VItal Deegan lynchmob....

head-exploding-2984414846.gif?VersionId=
aeffertz wrote:
I keep waiting to see all the tears and brain melting posts from the “Vital Deegan Lynchmob” but all I can seem to find is you...

I keep waiting to see all the tears and brain melting posts from the “Vital Deegan Lynchmob” but all I can seem to find is you insisting it’s happening in every other thread. 

I know.  It's a paranoid weird place inside his basement with his old desk top computer. 

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DonM
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8/20/2024 2:44pm
Magoofan wrote:
If this happens.....the VItal Deegan lynchmob....

If this happens.....the VItal Deegan lynchmob....

head-exploding-2984414846.gif?VersionId=
aeffertz wrote:
I keep waiting to see all the tears and brain melting posts from the “Vital Deegan Lynchmob” but all I can seem to find is you...

I keep waiting to see all the tears and brain melting posts from the “Vital Deegan Lynchmob” but all I can seem to find is you insisting it’s happening in every other thread. 

Herr Lich wrote:

I know.  It's a paranoid weird place inside his basement with his old desk top computer. 

This makes me laugh....oh how you have been humbled....

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Herr Lich
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8/20/2024 2:48pm
Also opens up for paying races. Let’s say WSX if it survives. Or euro off season races. Appearance fees. Where say star doesn’t want to do...

Also opens up for paying races. Let’s say WSX if it survives. Or euro off season races. Appearance fees. Where say star doesn’t want to do them. 
Having your own team opens up Pandora’s box for sure. 

You appear to misunderstand what 'opening Pandora's box' means.  But leaving that aside. 

What about just negotiating things like overseas races into the contract with Star?  You don't need to create your own team do this. 

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Herr Lich
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8/20/2024 2:51pm
aeffertz wrote:
I keep waiting to see all the tears and brain melting posts from the “Vital Deegan Lynchmob” but all I can seem to find is you...

I keep waiting to see all the tears and brain melting posts from the “Vital Deegan Lynchmob” but all I can seem to find is you insisting it’s happening in every other thread. 

Herr Lich wrote:

I know.  It's a paranoid weird place inside his basement with his old desk top computer. 

DonM wrote:

This makes me laugh....oh how you have been humbled....

Haven't you got some of Brian's media releases to prepare? 

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Gonzo-0100
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8/20/2024 3:10pm

Dad want's to manage the team. Haiden is young and is not likely seeing the whole picture. His Dad got him to where he is today. Hard work and talent aside. Very few kids get the opportunities Haiden has.

To Brian's credit, he has provided a pretty great life for his family. No one knows the true nature of their relationship, good or bad. My Dad "managed" my racing career (which was more of a "riding" career) and I loved every minute of it. If I was super successful and my Dad was rich, why would we not want to do our own thing? So long as the equipment was the best out there of course.

I am not saying this is a good decision... Maybe they have avenues to make money above what they are now. What if they break even (as compared to what Haiden would get on Starr or wherever) and they get to do it their own way and get to do it together? Do what you love, and if you can do it with someone you love, why not?

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Radical
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8/20/2024 3:13pm
Radical wrote:
It seems like a big distraction that could end up costing Haiden championships.Unless the plan is to be the Factory team for Ducati.  If that's the...

It seems like a big distraction that could end up costing Haiden championships.

Unless the plan is to be the Factory team for Ducati.  If that's the case, they should try to pull in Tomac for a season or 2.

I don’t think eli will want to test that bike, and will he even be racing by then?

Well, it may have crazy amounts of power, which would fit his style.

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RichieW13
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8/20/2024 3:23pm

These teams have big insurance policy’s etc to protect them. That’s who pays if titles are won or guys hurt etc. 

I'm sure the premiums against Haiden winning a championship would be expensive in their own right.  He probably has at least a 25% chance of winning a 450 championship in 2026.  If his bonus is $1 million, then the premiums on that policy are probably going to be close to $200,000/year.

 

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8/20/2024 3:33pm
Radical wrote:
It seems like a big distraction that could end up costing Haiden championships.Unless the plan is to be the Factory team for Ducati.  If that's the...

It seems like a big distraction that could end up costing Haiden championships.

Unless the plan is to be the Factory team for Ducati.  If that's the case, they should try to pull in Tomac for a season or 2.

I don’t think eli will want to test that bike, and will he even be racing by then?

Radical wrote:

Well, it may have crazy amounts of power, which would fit his style.

I understand that but is he willing to test the bike and develop it and only practice a few times.

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8/20/2024 3:39pm

i would not be surprised if Brian is talking to Chad about the costs,  i could see something more like the Mcgrath Chaparral deal with factory support , rather than the full Chad reed way that do it on their own,  also remember,  Chad didnt have a full factory option to go to , which forced his hand somewhat,  

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joelsmith
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Big gamble on an, at that time, unproven bike. Could be a hero or a great big zero. 
I also wonder what, if it doesn’t go well, established manufacturer would welcome him in their team.

Seems like a huge gamble and potential career killer .

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JazzyJJ
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8/20/2024 4:05pm

These teams have big insurance policy’s etc to protect them. That’s who pays if titles are won or guys hurt etc. 

RichieW13 wrote:
I'm sure the premiums against Haiden winning a championship would be expensive in their own right.  He probably has at least a 25% chance of winning...

I'm sure the premiums against Haiden winning a championship would be expensive in their own right.  He probably has at least a 25% chance of winning a 450 championship in 2026.  If his bonus is $1 million, then the premiums on that policy are probably going to be close to $200,000/year.

 

If your 25% is true, they are going to charge 30% of the bonus at least. Insurance companies aren't there to lose money

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8/20/2024 4:08pm
MxAddic wrote:
Who could put a price on the Deegan brand? Certainly Star Could not do that kind of money.

Who could put a price on the Deegan brand? Certainly Star Could not do that kind of money.

tat

Star does not pay the 450 riders tho. Yamaha directly does. So i would bet yamaha backs up the money truck and gives him a massive deal like they did when cooper went to the 450 for them first time around. Also Deegan would have a massive pay check from monster and tons of other sponsors he would have the freedom of having being on a 450

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Radical
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8/20/2024 4:11pm

I don’t think eli will want to test that bike, and will he even be racing by then?

Radical wrote:

Well, it may have crazy amounts of power, which would fit his style.

I understand that but is he willing to test the bike and develop it and only practice a few times.

I have no idea.  Just a thought.  A few months ago, Tomac announced his intention to race 2025, but did not announce a contract extension with Star.  That led me to wonder if he was considering a different manufacturer.

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RichieW13
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8/20/2024 4:19pm
JazzyJJ wrote:

If your 25% is true, they are going to charge 30% of the bonus at least. Insurance companies aren't there to lose money

Yeah, obviously I don't know what the exact calculation is.  

8/20/2024 4:38pm
Radical wrote:
I have no idea.  Just a thought.  A few months ago, Tomac announced his intention to race 2025, but did not announce a contract extension with...

I have no idea.  Just a thought.  A few months ago, Tomac announced his intention to race 2025, but did not announce a contract extension with Star.  That led me to wonder if he was considering a different manufacturer.

That’s going to be announced in the next week or two according to the SML kickstart podcast.

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Magoofan
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8/20/2024 4:54pm
DonM wrote:

This makes me laugh....oh how you have been humbled....

Damn it....you made me have to go back and read the clowns post....      

Ironically, my hand is in electronic design of the many devices people use to talk shit on the internet with.   Mobile phones, servers, vehicle infotainment systems, space faring gizmos, ear buds etc, etc, etc.....      and even military/ITAR goodies. 

Not that it matters much to the clueless buffoons with diarrhea mouth who lob "age" insults because it's all they got.  

 

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Motoxdoc
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8/20/2024 5:21pm

His own team?  wtf?  Why would he do that?  I bet RC and CR would have something to say about that 

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8/20/2024 5:37pm
Conkey wrote:
Honda has let go of MC, RC, Rossi, Stoner and Marquez in the recent future. I’m sure there’s more in the past.  They’ll ride the Lawrence...

Honda has let go of MC, RC, Rossi, Stoner and Marquez in the recent future. I’m sure there’s more in the past.  They’ll ride the Lawrence brothers until they do not want to. 

Marquez left for less money because the Honda is just that bad in MotoGP atm

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JazzyJJ
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8/20/2024 5:41pm
Conkey wrote:
Honda has let go of MC, RC, Rossi, Stoner and Marquez in the recent future. I’m sure there’s more in the past.  They’ll ride the Lawrence...

Honda has let go of MC, RC, Rossi, Stoner and Marquez in the recent future. I’m sure there’s more in the past.  They’ll ride the Lawrence brothers until they do not want to. 

Marquez left for less money because the Honda is just that bad in MotoGP atm

Good to see him back near the front. Still crashing but at least he's not crashing out while pushing for ninth place 

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Johnny Ringo
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8/20/2024 5:45pm
Motoxdoc wrote:

His own team?  wtf?  Why would he do that?  I bet RC and CR would have something to say about that 

And perhaps Larocco and MC would have something different to say about it.

Has Chad ever expressed remorse over his team? I’d bet he views it as a successful endeavor 

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ando
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8/20/2024 5:57pm
Motoxdoc wrote:

His own team?  wtf?  Why would he do that?  I bet RC and CR would have something to say about that 

And perhaps Larocco and MC would have something different to say about it.Has Chad ever expressed remorse over his team? I’d bet he views it as...

And perhaps Larocco and MC would have something different to say about it.

Has Chad ever expressed remorse over his team? I’d bet he views it as a successful endeavor 

Successful as a racing venture but what about as a money making venture?

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8/20/2024 6:19pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2024 6:23pm

So if i go to work for a company, and am earning a good wage...i would be a fool to go out an start my own company doing the same thing so i can be my own man and hopefully make more money?

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