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Yeah, but what are those "things"?
If they are for the long term success of MX in general they should tell us what they are. MXSports taking too many tickets doesn't have fuck all to do with the long term success of MX in general so GH is either lying with the statement you posted or lying that the ticket numbers are the point of contention.
Exactly my point and thoughts as well.
DC is far from perfect, and maybe he's just a good salesman, but after hearing both sides, I'm with DC on this one I think.
Agree to disagree
So to clarify, it's the responsibility of GH staff to make sure that DC follows through on his promises regarding his own company? GH staff should have done all the communication with MXS crew instead of their own boss? I was standing feet away from Bud when he shook DC's hand and Davey said "We have a deal. We will make it happen." I guess we now know that "We will make that happen and a handshake" only means we will make it happen if your staff continues to bug me and then coordinates it with all of my MXS crew. If DC had no intention of doing it, he should have made the deal. Or better yet, if he later learned of some potential issues preventing him from fulfilling his side of the deal, he should have come back to Bud and tried to figure something out. Instead, when Bud confronted him about it (again, I was a direct witness to this), he simply shined him on and said it could be done because of TV.
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Apparently what they feel is important for their long term success and the long term success of MX in general does not align with MXS and the other 11 tracks and their vision for long term success...
Whoever this poster is made it clear that MX Sports did infact try to make it happen. It was just that some of the riders continued to use the original route.
Seems like an honest effort was made. And that TV prevented them from doing it after the fact.
When did that handshake happen? Months before, the day before, Saturday morning?
Bud Jr.
If I said that MXS "canceled" a national in a post, then that was my mistake. In the past, everyone has made it seem like GH "canceled" the national when in fact there wasn't even a signed deal to have a national. A better term would be that MXS "removed the national from the schedule" after it became apparent both parties weren't going to be able to reach a deal.
Yes, you are correct. GH doesn't NEED a national, but we also want to give the fans a national because we know they want it. Of course, we are racers and fans too, so we would love to see a national. But I think we have gotten to the point that we are just done giving up more and more. Perhaps other tracks aren't in the same position as we are and can't afford to lose the event, which is why they accept the terms that are given from MXS as "take it or leave it."
As for the badmouthing? What potential business partner? Are you talking about MXS?
It was like the Wed or Thursday before the race.
"Giving up more and more"
The only thing ya'll have said you gave up was a few tickets...even that story seems a little suspect as you tried to act like MXSports was selling these tickets to the public at Industry Services, which isn't happening.
So what else have you given up?
Be able to have its own VIP areas and sponsorship areas would probably be a hard requirement for me to have, being part of running a track that has nationals on it.
You can't bring in sponsors for 364 days a year to an arena or event area as big as GH, and shut them out for the one major event that you co-arrange. No sponsors or partners would be happy with that.
If MX-sport rented the facility it would be a different thing (much like Feld do for SX), but they are not.
Ok then, back to my age old question...how do the other tracks make it work then?
I've said it a million times, Glen Helen wants to play the victim in this deal but ALL these other tracks make it work. If MXSports/DC were such scum bags and hard to work with you'd think another track woulda backed out by now.
GlenHelen says they're not interested in working a deal with the current owner (DC). My question: what would change that situation? IE - when does the license for the series come up again? or is GH simply going to wait till DC retires before having talks again?
Fair point and I can only speak from my personal experience and at one particular national. But I have had several members of the Coombs family over the years personally hand my father and later myself tickets and/or wristbands. I'm not talking 2 or 3 here I'm talking in the 10-20 range. Grandparents through grandkids, all were accounted for and maybe a friend or two. The neighbors who wanted to attend also had the same setup, some of course were not moto fans and didn't attend.
No hate coms though just sharing my own experience, the nationals gone any maybe things would be different today who knows.
Because most tracks need some additional revenue and margin, and would take it/anything as long as they make some money.
In this event I actually feel like GH has set the the bar to normal level for accepting and doing a national, but the others has set it pretty low.
You can take a job for 15 an hour, but if it's worth 20 you should get 20. Most will settle for 15 even if it is not fair.
You heard A-mart, they need amature racing to make it work. Doesn't that sound like a good deal?
GH doesn't need that zero to low margin events where you need to do additional events to make it go around. Unfortunately most tracks do.
No other National Tracknis going out of business if they stopped running a National. Thats just silly.
Thats not what AMart said. You should go back and re-listen. He said they take full advantage of the National and make it even more profitable. This also this also makes no sense with your first argument.
If holding a National is not profitable, no one would do it.
I wouldn't run a national event that was depending on amature racing to make some money, as to what A-mart said. We draw the line at every event needs to stand on its own, and generate a considerable contribution. You take a huge risk if the weather is shit, could be half the revenue. So it needs to have a good upside on paper at least which from what I have heard and seen, it doesn't have.
Unfortunately most tracks look at the bottom line and if that is contributing a healthy amount of money compared to all year earninngs, they'll just take it. Even if the effort is not motivated and margins are low.
So you think Glen Helen is the only track that doesn't need a national? It just doesn't add up. We haven't heard ANYTHING from the other track owners. Not a hint of unfair asks or splits.
I am NOT saying they are all over the moon happy, but at the end of the day they see the value and choose to keep working with MXS.
Glen Helen has the right to refuse, clearly they have their reasons, but like @LungButter keeps asking, why are they the only ones??
Pit Row
So how else is GH supposed to make money off the event if they aren’t collecting entries, aren’t allowed to sell merch, not sure on food/beverage. Why is it greedy for them to want to limit tickets they themselves can’t sell if that is the only way they make money off the event. GH guy can you share the fee MXS gets from the facilities to have the event at their track?
Yea to make it work, and corrected to make it even more profitable.
Tracks don't go out of business, but they can't invest without it. Some really need it. Do you need that new tractor? Need nationals. Fix up houses? Need nationals. Had some low attanded seasons? Need nationals.
Take it from someone that has ran nationals and been running sport clubs for the last 10 years. Ain't no one getting rich on it unless you are very lucky with attendance and good at selling sponsorship.
Don't forget the risk. Shitty weather and you will barely break even depending on how much sponsorship and vip package you have been able to pre-sale (which you are not allowed to?).
I don't first hand know anything about the specific details of Glen Helen and Bud, but from what little I have read he is very wealthy from other business interests.
Like "fuck you" money wealthy.
Maybe that is the difference, Bud has enough money and wants things his way or no way. He doesn't need a National. Doesn't "need" the money unless it is on his terms or at least terms he finds agreeable. Stubborn? Probably. But when you don't "need" someone else your mindset can change.
The other promoter's maybe are not as fortunate, and need their National as their main $$ event each year so they are more open to agreeing to the terms required for a National?
Right or wrong, that is a business decision he is obviously willing to make. Just like DC not bending for Bud, business decision.
Us fans are the ones having a hard time with that, because as fans we want a Glen Helen National.
That's not what AMart said.
Because “he who has the gold makes the rules”
One party has the “gold” series and the other believes to have the “gold” track therefore they each believe they can make the rules and here we are…
You are probably right, but GH should just own that instead of putting out statements like this one that has already been posted here:
"Some of the reasoning may be that GH has the ability to "hold out" for things that we think are critical for our long-term success, as well as the long-term success of MX in general."
That doesn't line up with Bud just not needing the money so he won't bend, that makes it seem like they are martyrs for the good of the sport.....which they clearly aren't.
The attempt to make DC and MX Sports to look like the bad guy has failed. If you’ve been on this board for any amount of time, there is plenty of hate for DC here. This story just isn’t adding up.
Who knows if the others are afraid to speak up or not? Mentioned already Millville and Red Bud have a great draw so they are happy. Is Southwick a non-profi? The VFW puts the race on so they are happy to get a donation, are they looking at it as a business?. Pala is just happy to get people at their track in 100 degree heat so they aren’t going to say anything, + MXS probably gives them a discount on fees as they need a race in CA. Washougal is happy to have racers even show up as they have to drive all the way across the country before and after the event so they aren’t going to say anything. Hangtown is put on by a club so they really aren’t in it as a business. Thunder Valley have no clue how that is ran or what they are like rest of the year so can’t venture a guess on them. Iron Man has a MXS connection, the reason they got the race and they have the GNCC so they aren’t going to complain. Budds Creek is still trying to stay out of the red after their tax snafu over the MXDN. Unadilla would have the same reaction from fans if they got booted due to history so they probably get a little better deal…too much typing, let the down voting begin
If that's the case, then own it and it's all good. If he's made it to that level, then yeah I can respect it a little more, but you have to own it and not say you're doing it for the good of the sport. If true, he's earned the right to say "I don't need your national or your money" so just say that.
That’s not what AMart said he said when you put all the pieces together the national, amateur racing and camping it is very profitable he never said they needed amateur racing to make a profit. Nothing against either side but there are 11 other tracks that are good with their contracts with MXS if they had any issues or weren’t making money you would think that after 15 years they would be gone.
You are speculating. Are you really trying to say that the only tracks in the country, that are profitable enough to improve facilities, are the current 11 tracks with Nationals?
Glen Helen (and Ironman, Millville), there may already be enough business where running a National doesn't really contribute to the overall draw, but like Amart said to make it profitable means more than just Pro day. My local track Hangtown track wouldn't be in the shape it's in or have the draw if it wasn't connected to the National, perhaps Pala is the same way. As you said, lot's of different tracks holding Nationals for different reasons.
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