We've all seen the numerous debates over the years about comparing the skill/speed between MXGP and AMA Motocross riders. The Euros claim their MXGP boys are faster riders outdoors, and Americans claim our riders are faster outdoors. My belief is and always has been, that these are bogus claims. You can't compare two completely different series with very different track styles, schedules, rules, weather, and locations. It's simply not an apples to apples comparison. If we really wanted to see which series has faster riders we would need one combined 4-year series with 2 years in the US and 2 years in Europe, all riders included, under one set of rules/regulations. This would identify which riders could adapt to both race series best and which riders would ultimately finish on top. But, that's never going to happen. So until then, the debate about which series has better outdoor riders will continue to be as bogus as it always has been. Generally speaking, the MXGP riders will be faster on the Euro tracks and the AMA riders will be faster on US tracks, with each series running under a different sets of rules.
For those who still think it's possible to compare the rider's speed between the two series, take a look at Vialle's performance this year. The 2x world champ has been getting handily beat this season and Southwick was supposed to be his track. Well, he just got beat by Deegan on our most Euro style track. So does this now mean the AMA boys are faster than MXGP boys because Deegan is faster than the 2x champ? No, I think not. Deegan is waxing Vialle here in the US just like Vialle would wax Deegan across the pond. I've never understood how some claim that one series has faster riders than the other, regardless of which side of the pond you are on.
It's really a futile argument. I will say though I think AMA 250 is stronger than MX2 and not necessarily because of the age rule as most of the fast guys in AMA are legal for MX2 . I think 450 is overall a bit stronger in MXGP but less so since the Lawrence brothers showed up .
And yet 2 guys who have all but retired can come and run Top 10 in 450.
On bikes they buy with their own money.
You cant compare MX2 with 250 outdoors, as one has an age limit and the other doesnt.
Deegan is arms and legs better than every other 250 rider, and yet he is 1-0 down to Vialle in titles this year.
It's ok Phil . Yes mxgp is best hands down .
Idk but Webster just got a 7th in moto and his Bern racing those easy mx tracks.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Free shipping: VITALMX
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
450 class is not as deep as mxgp imo
You've got Alvin Ostlund who I think is a GP regular racing the AMA series on a flyaway GP weekend. He finished similar to what he does in the GPs but forget about that , why isn't he racing the GP ? The AMA series is far superior as far as the way its run .
I was talking about Kullas and Krestinov.
I expected Ostlund to be better, he is a 12-15 guy in MXGP on a good day.
Agreed , it is piss weak right now , with one Kawasaki, no Webb , Tomac, Roczen, and a Husky Team that are a waste of a truck, its 6 riders light of where it should be.
As much as i hate the age rule, having 30 year old guys on 250's is just dumb.
Are you using the regional title you hold in such high regard here ?
Deegan is kicking Vialle's ass outdoors .
I honestly thought Tommy V would be the one winning and dominating because he has a lot more experience than haiden racing and championship wise.
It's the tracks.
The GP based riders are really good on the GP tracks. We've seen enough MXDN's to demonstrate that 20 etc times over at this point. Take the most recent example of 2023. Vialle has a sleepy so-so year throughout most of the Nationals but then comes alive at st jean d'angely - partly the occassion, partly the event, sure. But also hugely the track.
Hampshire's words on the mattter @ 1:45
Not to say it's impossible for either side to do well on an AMA or GP track etc. But overall they'll excell at what they originally developed their technique on.
I thought so too, but it looks like he’s riding injured. He’s walking with an obvious limp, yet why does no one ask him about it?
Its moto, we won't know until after the season, same with jetts shoulder, if they say anything.
One thing for sure. For at least this weekend place 17-40 in ama motocross was way faster than 17-40 at the 450 MXGP!! And 22-40 was way faster in the 250 class🤣🤷♀️
Phil is pretty cool and I love the GPs, just sorta wonder what his thoughts are on the old days and the 125 class lifers or old dudes like Jobe(who came back ro 125s), Rinaldi, etc who made a career out of small bores and then says over 30 shouldn't be there
At least Jonny O said it straight out; in the after show interview with JT- shoulder and latissimus injuries, causing Jett to put more load on his legs to compensate, then his legs get tired.
The main selling point is the AMA has full starting gates.
Mike drop.........
Things change, during around 2012-2019 Euros had the better MX riders, it's now the American series that has the better riders.
At the end of the day, I wish both series combined.
Pit Row
I don't know why people can't just enjoy 8 motos a week without the comparison..
But I agree I say it all depends who is racing where.. Dunno if I agree about the US 250 being stronger than the MX2 with DeWolf Langenfelder and the Coenens, those dudes are fucken hauling.. I mean I'm not gonna claim they are faster either haha
Full gates does not equal a quality field.
450 has multiple guys who are underperforming in a very weak field, there are 10 fast guys, the top 3 are a different level, the next 4 (Cooper, Anderson, Plessinger, Ferrandis) are off the pace a tad, then you have Barcia, who is mailing it in, then the Husky guys, who are awful, and then Chiz and McElrath , who are so bad , they should retire.
The fact that Nicoletti is a top 10 guy, week in week out , and he is 5 seconds a lap off the pace, says everything, Filthy is a journeyman Pro, the reason he is still able to hold down ride, is that it is a weak field. And i am a big fan, he almost seems embarrassed that he is going so well.
Both series are suffering from a lack of riders at the feeder levels, and it shows, but i would rather have 20 guys that are on the pace, than 40 , with 20 of them that are just gate filling.
MXGP this year has been great, even the qualy races matter, its a shame Febvre and Renaux are injured, else there would have been 5 riders capable of a win.
And Vialle is only a 2 time champ cos Jago Geerts is channelling the spirit of Austin Forkner. Discuss.
Deegan is a generational talent that Vialle never was, when KTM picked him for the Factory Team, everyone was surprised,. and even more surprised when he won.
I just want to see great racing ,preferably not blighted by lappers.
kullas is top rider , all he need is a good team
MXGP is predominantly an elite level field of riders.
450 outdoors is predominantly an national level field of riders.
Women riders have scored points in the MX2 championship races haven't they? Full starting gates may not equal a quality field, but it does demonstrate a series worthy of a professional's effort. Plenty of fast riders in other European series not even bothering with Luongo's series because it is not worth their effort.
And Vialle is only a 2 time champ cos Jago Geerts is channelling the spirit of Austin Forkner. Discuss.
True. At the MXdN in Redbud I was impressed how fast Geerts was in the sweeping turn after the start. Scary fast.
Some truth to that.
American riders are mentally weaker than European riders lately. Think Ferrandis, who could ride a whole moto with AC pressuring him, and not even care that he was back there. Meant nothing to him.
Think Sexton who exudes apathy in his interviews. No fire. No killer instinct.
Deegan may be the start of a turnaround in the US. Throw in a little humility, and you have world class mentality. Maybe the US will rise again.
The 450 Mxgp class blows away the ama top 10 , if you took the top 5 from both series , apart from jett I don’t see any of the others being in the top 5
First part, sounds like Barcias knees are bad. Don’t think he’s mailing it in sounds more like he’s hurt and as far as Vialle. Greets might have been one percent faster at times but he had 10 percent of the race craft of Vialle. IM pretty sure the Frenchman had a better record at sand tracks as well vs the Belgian. As impressive as Greets was for one moto at MxDN in 22, Vialle was for both in 23.
I will bet anyone that Chase beats Prado next year in the Nationals.
To be fair the depth of the Nationals is pretty weak in the 450s and on top of that Roczen is all but done outdoors and perhaps Tomac as well. Anderson, Barcia, Stewart, Ferrandis and Plessinger are much closer to the end then the beginning as well as Webb who wouldn’t race Motocross if he had it his way. AC is already retired and the other can’t miss kid just had brain surgery in Forkner. Plus the two new rookies are already almost 25 in Hunter and 26 Cooper. Jett and Chase are saving the series with Hunter’s tenacity keeping them on point.
That being said, MXGP for depth has the AMA beat this year at least after 5th place and they have had their own injury problems as well. The Future for MxGP looks bleak on paper as Prado is coming here next year, the can’t miss Twins will be here by 2026. De Wolf as been in talks with US teams as well and just like the US Nearly every top guy in MXGP is far closer to the end than the beginning. Herlings is almost 30, Febvre is over 30, Seewer turns 30 this year. Tiga is still in his prime and losing Prado hurts here. Greets can't stay healthy and It’s even worse for Reneaux and his foot. MxGP needs De Wolff to stay especially since the AMA is already poaching the twins. You don’t just replace talent like him. Next man up only works in team sports.
The fact he’s on a new bike new schedule and new tracks I would hope he would , put the top 5 from each series a neutral track there will be more Mxgp riders up front , as the Mxons has proved many times in recent years
Post a reply to: MXGP vs AMA Motocross - the age old debate