The KTM350SX-F

jmar
Posts
14154
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/24/2010 5:24pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I've seen this thing in person a few times, lately... The injection-system is as clean as it gets. The Italian Starter-Motor is wonderfully 'small' and installed...
I've seen this thing in person a few times, lately...

The injection-system is as clean as it gets.
The Italian Starter-Motor is wonderfully 'small' and installed into the engine in the most compact way possible.
The temp-sensor/pick-up is in the smartest location I've seen...so far...in the water-jacket between the intake & exhaust valves (Left-side).
The linkage is STOUT! Think of a wider-more "billetized" old-style Yamaha.
The bike is sooooooo 250ish that it's well...jus' bitchin'!
The New-Swingarms is like a works-part.

I'm jus' wondering if, like Husky, it's gonna come with all the Computer-Cables, Program(s) and stuff stock?

This will be their best selling bike...

I'd go get on the waiting list if you want one "early"

I know I'll be riding one. And, I haven't "owned" a KTM since '91!
I personally think that in the large bore class the two strokes should be unlimited. That includes allowing bikes like AJs. The only people to gain by bringing down the four stoke displacement are those who have huge budgets and are looking for an advantage.
`ol Ger
Posts
6269
Joined
7/15/2007
Location
Piqua, OH, USA
4/24/2010 5:35pm
Trent179 wrote:
I'll buy a 350 when one of the big 4 make one. Every person I know that has had a KTM has had nothing but problems....
Somebody doesn't know many people.
WideOpen
Posts
203
Joined
4/15/2010
Location
USA
4/24/2010 5:37pm
WideOpen wrote:
Mikes best year ever on a 450 outdoors was on his KTM!!! On top of that that Italian guy seems to be doing just fine on...
Mikes best year ever on a 450 outdoors was on his KTM!!!

On top of that that Italian guy seems to be doing just fine on the other side of the pond with the 350.

If Mike gets beat this summer it not going to be because of his bike.



Crush wrote:
The only reason it was his best year was because he finished those years... He was faster on the Zook... Not necessarily because of the bike...
The only reason it was his best year was because he finished those years...

He was faster on the Zook... Not necessarily because of the bike but he was definitely faster, just got injured...
Maybe Alessi and the Zook combo was not a match made in heaven. You have to admit, he spent most of the time hurt after he mounted the yellow bike.

Faster does not mean much when you can't finish a series.
`ol Ger
Posts
6269
Joined
7/15/2007
Location
Piqua, OH, USA
4/24/2010 5:37pm
BobbyM wrote:
MIKE has proven he can pass last year at hangtown. is it as good as the suzy...no fucking way.
need love wrote:
Hey you one legged pirate, its better than a suzuki
Farva wrote:
A factory Suzuki that has input from both R.C and Reed.

I doubt that.
I value Reed and RC's input, and I also value Stephan Evert's and Cairoli's input.

The Shop

Crush
Posts
21125
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
4/24/2010 5:38pm
Hmmm... I've got to admit though, I am for the 350 because I'm still a die-hard 2 stroke fan and I can see a small glimmering light that it would mean the 2 strokes could be competitive... And like I said, if KTM did come out with a EFI 300 with some serious development, which there are rumours of, you never know, we might see some parity come back through the ranks...

I just think it will be interesting to watch the manufacturers these next few years... They all fell over themselves trying to copy Honda and the Aliminium frame, will they turn their engines around too?!?!
adamdf
Posts
2132
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
St. Michael, BB
4/24/2010 6:33pm
Trent179 wrote:
I'll buy a 350 when one of the big 4 make one. Every person I know that has had a KTM has had nothing but problems....
Faceaz wrote:
How many people is that?
Trent179 wrote:
3 people. They have 08, and 09 450's. Not sure what the third person is on. I have never seen bikes fuck up more in my...
3 people. They have 08, and 09 450's. Not sure what the third person is on. I have never seen bikes fuck up more in my life! The 2009 has had the case split on it 3 times. They take it to the KTM dealer also, so it's not like they are just putting stuff together wrong. I can remember quite a few years ago when ktm 125's were the craze. Those bikes couldn't keep a crank together for nothing! Maybe it's coinsidence, but from my experience ktm's kinda stink.
I am going to go right ahead and say you have seen an isolated issue OR the guys who race the bikes don't maintain them OR the person who is working on the bike is clueless, could be any of those 3 because KTM makes some quality stuff, i had an 08 450 SXF and never had a problem, not one.
adamdf
Posts
2132
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
St. Michael, BB
4/24/2010 6:35pm
About the 350 having a disadvantage on the starts, don't you guys think that with all the starts the Alessis practice at home that they know the time it takes to get from their start gate to the first turn on their track? I would think so, they probably know the start time on the 350 now vs the RMZ, if it was anything to worry about i think mike would just ride the 450 KTM. These guys must know what they are doing, let's face it, it is their life long job to know.
jmar
Posts
14154
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/24/2010 6:49pm
Crush wrote:
Hmmm... I've got to admit though, I am for the 350 because I'm still a die-hard 2 stroke fan and I can see a small glimmering...
Hmmm... I've got to admit though, I am for the 350 because I'm still a die-hard 2 stroke fan and I can see a small glimmering light that it would mean the 2 strokes could be competitive... And like I said, if KTM did come out with a EFI 300 with some serious development, which there are rumours of, you never know, we might see some parity come back through the ranks...

I just think it will be interesting to watch the manufacturers these next few years... They all fell over themselves trying to copy Honda and the Aliminium frame, will they turn their engines around too?!?!
But are you a fan of the two stroke or a fan of racing?

The 450 is the biggest equalizer that this sport has ever seen. No one on the line is out motored. I have no problems with the two stroke but I don't want to hand an advantage back to the OEMs or the deep pocket teams with a rule that is bad for the sport.

Let the two strokes go unlimited, but keep the displacement at 450cc for the four stokes.
Crush
Posts
21125
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
4/24/2010 7:19pm
Yeah I'm a fan of the racing but I'm also a fan of the sport being healthy, and I really don't believe that four strokes have benefited joe blogs trying to ride all the time... I know they can be reliable, and there maintenance isn't that bad... but I know loads of people taken out of the sport by a stroker sucking the valves and blowing a top end...

You've also got the hate towards 4 stroke noise, which I know has definitely been more of an issue... I just heard a dude ride past my house on a WR450 and it was loud as a Harley under throttle... No one likes that, not even most of the gear heads...

You know one thing that I always thought was kinda interesting... Remember RC and everyone else saying when you move up to the 250 you have to be careful and respect the bike etc... Well, the bikes now are more powerful...

I understand and agree that the 450s have leveled the playing field motor wise, but it hasn't made a guy who was 20th before be 5th now... You know what I mean... The PC guys are still winning, Chad, James, the Ryans, etc, they are still the best guys... But are more people riding now? Not so sure... It's not because of one thing... but still...

I know MXA said they were quicker on a AFCR500 than the 450 but can't remember if they said it was harder etc... and then really, would the pros change? Probably not...

Would it be nice to have a choice... Yes it would...

Will we get it if the manufacturers are hurting like they tell us... Probably not...

I'm just holding onto a slim hope that the 350 brings the balance back to centre and the 2 strokes get some development...

if nothing else, I thought it was interesting when the 4 strokes first came in, because they had their disadvantages so it was kinda level, it was a comparison... Like knowing McClaren are quicker than Red Bull in a straight line but Red Bull have a better chassis package... You know?
Trent179
Posts
1227
Joined
4/3/2010
Location
Princeton, IN, USA
4/24/2010 7:37pm
Faceaz wrote:
How many people is that?
Trent179 wrote:
3 people. They have 08, and 09 450's. Not sure what the third person is on. I have never seen bikes fuck up more in my...
3 people. They have 08, and 09 450's. Not sure what the third person is on. I have never seen bikes fuck up more in my life! The 2009 has had the case split on it 3 times. They take it to the KTM dealer also, so it's not like they are just putting stuff together wrong. I can remember quite a few years ago when ktm 125's were the craze. Those bikes couldn't keep a crank together for nothing! Maybe it's coinsidence, but from my experience ktm's kinda stink.
adamdf wrote:
I am going to go right ahead and say you have seen an isolated issue OR the guys who race the bikes don't maintain them OR...
I am going to go right ahead and say you have seen an isolated issue OR the guys who race the bikes don't maintain them OR the person who is working on the bike is clueless, could be any of those 3 because KTM makes some quality stuff, i had an 08 450 SXF and never had a problem, not one.
Might have been an isolated case, but I wouldn't take the chance after seeing the BS they went through. I'm not like prejudice against ktm's, the 350 sounds like a dream bike. Me personally would feel much more comfy on a slant eyed jap bike. Oh, and the bikes were taken care of. It's possible the mechanic's that worked on the bikes could have jacked them up. The local ktm dealer was the one that put the 09 back together, but that's not always a good thing... lol
adamdf
Posts
2132
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
St. Michael, BB
4/24/2010 7:41pm
I see what you are saying crush, and KTM clearly seems to be standing behind the two stroke, as far as i know they are the only one of the big 5 still developing two strokes, believe it or not, their 300 XC off-road models sell damn well and i myself have been thinking of buying one just as a bike to thrash around in the back country roads during the week because lets face it they are much more reliable and require less maintenance over more hours... Mike Alessi also said in a Dirt Rider review that the KTM 250 SX was the most fun he had in a while, everyone seems to agree that two strokes are fun to ride and isn't that what most weekend warriors (most of the market) want out of their weekend? Fun? And KTM understands that i think, as said on this forum before they should be working on EFI for their two strokes and as long as they keep developing them i don't think we have seen the end of the two stroke just yet.

As far as the 350 goes, i don't think it is going to make anything easier on the two strokes.

Four strokes still have an advantage right now, and that's a fact, but as said above with KTM still developing the two stroke and the positive rumours we have been hearing, I think your "slim hope" may be worth hanging on to.
Agent717
Posts
587
Joined
9/6/2009
Location
Cedar Park, TX, USA
4/24/2010 7:47pm
Metcalfe took the overall at REM today. Alessi won the first moto with ease but Bret ran him down in the second moto. Not sure if he was having bike problems but I imagine Alessi has him covered on an equal bike.

Was like a national out there today: Alessi, Metcalfe, Rattray, Searle, Lieb, Golden...
Crush
Posts
21125
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
4/24/2010 8:05pm
Well I guess that means Alessi got holeys in both motos?!?!

There goes the 350 aint fast enough theory!!! Who woulda thunk it?!?!

Adamdf, my ride is a 2006 300EXC and it is brillant... I've set it up for MX but left the road going gear on, as it is easy to drop... Great bike mate, cant stop smiling everytime I ride... It's just got a PC pipe and silencer and it'll handle 450s no worries...
`ol Ger
Posts
6269
Joined
7/15/2007
Location
Piqua, OH, USA
4/24/2010 8:21pm
me too.
Crush
Posts
21125
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
4/24/2010 8:24pm
me too what Ger?!?
Trent179
Posts
1227
Joined
4/3/2010
Location
Princeton, IN, USA
4/24/2010 8:28pm
Hmmmm Alessi bike problems the second moto.
Lightning78
Posts
6353
Joined
12/12/2007
Location
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
4/25/2010 2:54am
Crush wrote:
Hmmm... I've got to admit though, I am for the 350 because I'm still a die-hard 2 stroke fan and I can see a small glimmering...
Hmmm... I've got to admit though, I am for the 350 because I'm still a die-hard 2 stroke fan and I can see a small glimmering light that it would mean the 2 strokes could be competitive... And like I said, if KTM did come out with a EFI 300 with some serious development, which there are rumours of, you never know, we might see some parity come back through the ranks...

I just think it will be interesting to watch the manufacturers these next few years... They all fell over themselves trying to copy Honda and the Aliminium frame, will they turn their engines around too?!?!
jmar wrote:
But are you a fan of the two stroke or a fan of racing? The 450 is the biggest equalizer that this sport has ever seen...
But are you a fan of the two stroke or a fan of racing?

The 450 is the biggest equalizer that this sport has ever seen. No one on the line is out motored. I have no problems with the two stroke but I don't want to hand an advantage back to the OEMs or the deep pocket teams with a rule that is bad for the sport.

Let the two strokes go unlimited, but keep the displacement at 450cc for the four stokes.
If the Factory teams go completely away like they are supposed to do then your theory is gonna have to be thrown out the window.....now it will be factory level support teams that build the bike so the field will be much more even then when they ran factory 250 smokers against the privateers.....Deep pocket teams are even smaller that the factory teams were back in the day so I wouldn't worry too much about that one at all.....the 350 will set the SX/MX racing world on it's ear and it will be Mike Alessi's legacy.....hopefully hecan OWN the series this year like he should've last year before he got hurt.....Its like he is getting a second chance for that elusive title he was supposed nab more than a few of by now.....the start of this years outdoors is like a replica of last years....JS not racing, RV out etc....
Lightning78
Posts
6353
Joined
12/12/2007
Location
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
4/25/2010 3:02am
JMAR you can keep thge 450's but there is no reason KTM shouldn't be able to run the 350 and riders should have that option as well.....besides KTM is such a cool company that they actually sell their works engine parts to any racer that wants to buy them which is something the Japanese have NEVER done and are too proud to do it...... Your average privateer pro can buy the same stuff the works bikes run in the engine via their sxsf kits......

Kudo's KTM I wish the other guys were that in tune to the racers that choose to run their bikes like KTM does.....think about this what if the 350 is that sucessful that MA is winnign races left and righ then if he was on a Japanese brand noone could get teh parts except for him but with KTM's sxsf kits for the 350 if a rider chooses to race it he will have the same works level engine components as their factory racers. That will motivate a lot of privateers to ride them hands down......

no more taking it to yotur local engine guy for a hi comp piston and port job that won't get them much at all but the SXSF kit they have just as much of a shot as MA does. If I was a professional racer common sense would sway me to the KTM 350
JB 19
Posts
4345
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH, USA
4/25/2010 6:24am
Stewart was getting holeshots on his KX250 in 05 against 450's. Starts are more about peak power. I don't think the 350 will suffer on starts. It might be at a slight disadvantage coming out of turns where mid range power counts......but I think the overall package will more than make up for it.

chrisbuehler
Posts
3346
Joined
2/9/2009
Location
North Stonington, CT, USA
4/25/2010 7:11am
And the 2009 CRF450 was also gonna be the greatest thing since sliced bread too.
WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
USA
4/25/2010 7:18am
No matter how you slice it, 350s are not going to have as much power throughout the RPM range as 450s. That's not a problem for amateurs - in fact, amateurs would probably go faster in corners with less power. But put that bike on a hilly track with a long start in a National and it's going to be a disadvantage.

Peak power is less important than a long spread of very high power. Heck, you can juice up a YZ/RM/SX250 to put out the same peak power as a 450 and you're still going to get killed on hills, in long starts and anyplace that you can't keep the engine churning at the perfect RPM. Also, cornering speed isn't much good if you're getting blocked in corners and out-dragged on the straights.

There's no replacement for displacement. Remember John Dowd on the 520? Holeshots all over the place.

As an amateur, I'd love to get a 350; as a very top-level National rider, not so much.
sixdayguy
Posts
31
Joined
11/29/2009
Location
Battle Ground, IN, USA
4/25/2010 7:54am
Sure looks like the 350 is a disadvantage to me!! LOL
RACEGUY
Posts
1893
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
Moncton, CA
4/25/2010 8:01am
sixdayguy wrote:
Sure looks like the 350 is a disadvantage to me!! LOL
Yeah...moto two, Cairoli is off the bike twice and has at least two more huge anchor-dropping swap-outs, and returns from 4th place to roll a comfortable win.

With disadvantages like that.....
WideOpen
Posts
203
Joined
4/15/2010
Location
USA
4/25/2010 8:06am
JB 19 wrote:
Stewart was getting holeshots on his KX250 in 05 against 450's. Starts are more about peak power. I don't think the 350 will suffer on starts...
Stewart was getting holeshots on his KX250 in 05 against 450's. Starts are more about peak power. I don't think the 350 will suffer on starts. It might be at a slight disadvantage coming out of turns where mid range power counts......but I think the overall package will more than make up for it.

Starts are more about who has a quicker reaction to the gate and who can run it deeper in the first corner. Power can't help you with either.
JB 19
Posts
4345
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH, USA
4/25/2010 9:11am
JB 19 wrote:
Stewart was getting holeshots on his KX250 in 05 against 450's. Starts are more about peak power. I don't think the 350 will suffer on starts...
Stewart was getting holeshots on his KX250 in 05 against 450's. Starts are more about peak power. I don't think the 350 will suffer on starts. It might be at a slight disadvantage coming out of turns where mid range power counts......but I think the overall package will more than make up for it.

WideOpen wrote:
Starts are more about who has a quicker reaction to the gate and who can run it deeper in the first corner. Power can't help you...
Starts are more about who has a quicker reaction to the gate and who can run it deeper in the first corner. Power can't help you with either.
OK Einstein, so a guy on a 125 has the same shot at a start as a guy on a 450 as long as he reacts first and holds it on longer.......OK. .....you must be talking about the county fair race in the C class. The fast guys all get the drill.

Its a drag race. Pretty simple. Power to weight ratio. Keep the engine at peak power and bang the gears.

jmar
Posts
14154
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/25/2010 9:13am
JMAR you can keep thge 450's but there is no reason KTM shouldn't be able to run the 350 and riders should have that option as...
JMAR you can keep thge 450's but there is no reason KTM shouldn't be able to run the 350 and riders should have that option as well.....besides KTM is such a cool company that they actually sell their works engine parts to any racer that wants to buy them which is something the Japanese have NEVER done and are too proud to do it...... Your average privateer pro can buy the same stuff the works bikes run in the engine via their sxsf kits......

Kudo's KTM I wish the other guys were that in tune to the racers that choose to run their bikes like KTM does.....think about this what if the 350 is that sucessful that MA is winnign races left and righ then if he was on a Japanese brand noone could get teh parts except for him but with KTM's sxsf kits for the 350 if a rider chooses to race it he will have the same works level engine components as their factory racers. That will motivate a lot of privateers to ride them hands down......

no more taking it to yotur local engine guy for a hi comp piston and port job that won't get them much at all but the SXSF kit they have just as much of a shot as MA does. If I was a professional racer common sense would sway me to the KTM 350
You are barking up the wrong tree here. I am a big KTM fan but Mike will not win the title if he rides the 350 this year. I am betting that he rides another brand.
jmar
Posts
14154
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/25/2010 9:23am
WhKnuckle wrote:
No matter how you slice it, 350s are not going to have as much power throughout the RPM range as 450s. That's not a problem for...
No matter how you slice it, 350s are not going to have as much power throughout the RPM range as 450s. That's not a problem for amateurs - in fact, amateurs would probably go faster in corners with less power. But put that bike on a hilly track with a long start in a National and it's going to be a disadvantage.

Peak power is less important than a long spread of very high power. Heck, you can juice up a YZ/RM/SX250 to put out the same peak power as a 450 and you're still going to get killed on hills, in long starts and anyplace that you can't keep the engine churning at the perfect RPM. Also, cornering speed isn't much good if you're getting blocked in corners and out-dragged on the straights.

There's no replacement for displacement. Remember John Dowd on the 520? Holeshots all over the place.

As an amateur, I'd love to get a 350; as a very top-level National rider, not so much.
There's no replacement for displacement.

Lot's of cash will be spent and the bikes will become less reliable.
Those who have the deepest pockets will have the fastest bikes.

Leave the 450s alone and let the two strokes run unlimited displacement, and unlimited chassis.

We need to level the playing field and keep racing as economical as possible.
4/25/2010 9:52am
All this talk of input from so-and-so. Engineers design the bike and manufacturing engineers decide how to put it together. Every company out that has plenty of riders for input...

Oh, here's a shock for you: You wouldn't want RC's bike! For you to ride that bike at normal human speed, it would smash your face in!
jmar
Posts
14154
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/25/2010 9:56am
All this talk of input from so-and-so. Engineers design the bike and manufacturing engineers decide how to put it together. Every company out that has plenty...
All this talk of input from so-and-so. Engineers design the bike and manufacturing engineers decide how to put it together. Every company out that has plenty of riders for input...

Oh, here's a shock for you: You wouldn't want RC's bike! For you to ride that bike at normal human speed, it would smash your face in!
RCs bike wasn't some type of jerk your arms off world beater. It was a bike that has many hours of testing and development to make the bike best suited for him.
anniebertmojo
Posts
727
Joined
10/12/2008
Location
California, CA, USA
4/25/2010 11:42am

KTM 250SXF / 350SXF at Glen Helen Saturday during the REM Races







Post a reply to: The KTM350SX-F

The Latest