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Ya I'm worried about the presadence this sets! Insurance companies see this and rates go higher or just cancel! No wonder entry fees have been going up around here!
More like if the mineshaft is outside of the ribboned area similar to this case the track was perfectly safe until something went wrong, just seems like it just sets a bad precedent like others have said.
i dont mean to sound pedantic and argumentative, but i feel there's a distinction there, because the XC race is inherently held on natural terrain, where the MX course is man-made, or at least the features are. i think a different standard of care applies. your example does raise an interesting question of fact where juries may reasonably disagree. that is, how far off the course (and at what trajectory) should the course designers be obligated to notify of and/or mitigate potentially critical hazards (in an XC race - here, this is still attached TO the course IMO).
Something I was wondering; What is Taylors and Rick Ryan's relationship with the track owner?
Sounds like they had a point to prove with someone they did not like.
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Socal guys correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding there was an existing cliff/slope/wall/whatever and the man made berm was built on top of the existing wall. The backside grade that you can see on the gopro footage is the backside of the man made berm, not the cliff/slope/wall/whatever that dropped down to the flat below. Not trying to steer anyone's opinion one way or another just pointing out the backside of the berm is not the drop in question.
I think the problem with the layout is the high speed downhill section leading directly into the corner. If they slowed the entry to the corner I don't see an accident like this happening.
Another question I don't think has been brought up yet. What did Rich say to his boy about the berm before lining up at the gate?
I don't know anything about this and have never been to LACR. My interpretation, from reading the statement, that you didn't know it was a cliff on the backside unless you were at the top of the berm. Is that correct? If so you have no idea of the danger? Or am I reading this wrong?
TM
Is RR sponsored by EKS Brand?
I'm sure he was after he made that statement for them.
There is no way you can miss it, it is clearly visible from the parking lot, entry to the track and other parts of the track when riding. I rode there with that layout and never really thought much of it. The biggest danger at that track is the wind hands down.
The backside of that berm is just fill dirt. You could ride or even tumble down it and not expect much of a problem. Hitting the berm straight on at speed is a different matter. The initial angle of the berm is now going to launch you up and out. From the shot of where he ended up he must have hit it fairly fast because he is all the way out on the flats almost to the Vet track. Whatever angle / degree the backside was is now irrelevant because he flew well beyond it. Had he simply collided with another rider during the turn and they both tumbled down the slope of fill dirt I doubt much would have happened.
As has been said several times earlier, he was out of control. Going way too fast because he missed the rear brake and the line shows no attempt to turn. Was he looping out after he launched .... was he endoing? Who knows but it was a consequence of being out of control. You could do the same thing on almost any obstacle on any track and expect a bad result. You can't expect a track owner to somehow calculate every possible scenario of an out of control rider. I think all of the mentioned experienced riders involved in this all knew that ... but for their own reasons have chosen to mis-characterize it.
BTW - this is why all riders need to have insurance coverage ... and make sure the policy does not contain any exclusions for whatever it is you are doing.
this reminds me of cody barnes at ironman gncc two years ago, where he fell down an ACTUAL 30 foot cliff...ML posted this on the main page....but he didnt sue toms marine, or the landowners/family.......
There are no unsafe tracks, just poor decisions and unexpected consequences. Look at Jett on the weekend, I could ride that section 1000 times without issue, but he decided to try and jump it, the track wasn't unsafe.
In a race environment even the first turn becomes unsafe.
Rich Taylor, from respected rider and industry person to scum. Sorry his kid had a nasty crash, don't wish that on anyone. But, kid made his own mistake, the track certainly didn't mess up and hit that berm straight on at high speed.
Sounds like Cody is a good dude.
Good on Cody for not lashing out at the sport we all love with a cash grab 👍
Fan is an understatement, I run a track and part of the board of directors in motor based communities. So I know just slightly more than most here how that works.... 😄
Thank you. From the statement, when he said after he walked back to the pits he could no longer see it, again going only from the statement, it sounded like you'd only know if you got to the top of the berm.
Can you explain what was uniquely dangerous about it and what about made you think it was poorly built? It looks like a big berm on an incline, which comes with its own set of concerns like any obstacle does. Like you obviously don't want to go full send off of a berm, So what was different from the normal way riders are supposed to handle big berms? I honestly can't see it in the video. It just looks like another big berm that you don't want to go shooting off of. What's different?
Pit Row
It’s at least good to see ML has stopped dropping in to defend and minimize what RT did. It’s hard to defend the indefensible but I appreciate a solid effort.
Track is the track. Whats around it, or in this case not, is a different thing. Same reason you can't park track equipment a feet from the track, things can go bad.
That would never have passed a serious track saftey review. Result would have been to put up a fence at the top of the berm, or cut it down.
I would never have built It like that in the first place. As mentioned, if you run a track professionally, you got to take responsibility.
Finally found a pic...
Exactly, I wouldn’t give a second thought to racing a track with a berm like that. I raced in the early 90s when every jump was peaked, and the landing was more so. I would consider living through that way more sketchy than the berm shown. Can those that ride it that claim it was a cliff provide a pic that shows something different than what we’ve been provided so far? Surely there has to be more to this cliff berm than we are being shown??!
It scares me for our sport that more than a few think this is justified. Disgusting.
You can feel bad for the injuries of the accident for sure but man i can't believe people support the suit.
I just remembered a very similar incident at the Oatfield, probably 12 years ago. Vet rider got out of shape going into a big berm at the end of a flat, fast straight. Whiskey throttled off the berm, over a chain link fence, and into the open back of a toy hauler parked next to the fence. I recall I was on the gate, and they held us there for a looooong time until they cleared the area. A helicopter came in and flew him out. It can happen on any track at any turn with a berm, well designed or not. This one was flat ground and the outcome was bad.
If I don't recall correctly didn't Haiden Deegan crash jumping into the Gator Pit at the Mini O's a couple years ago? I thought it was a crash at the top of the big downhill and he tumbled all the way down.
How is a crash on a track at the top of a gnarly downhill any different than blowing over a berm and landing at the bottom? A lot of tracks have drops that are much greater than that berm and could result in severe injuries. Is a precedent now set that a 20-30 steep downhill is an unacceptable risk? I know if I was an ambulance chaser I'd be using that on every case I could find.
RT is and has always been a douche. Just took a few people longer to figure that out. He was always out for himself no matter what.
Didn't that spot have some jumps and dips coming into the corner? If it's the spot I'm thinking of, I could see messing up those jumps, a hand popping off, then you're coming hot into a 90 left and you're really going for a ride.
Not to imply anything needed to be done about it, because that's kind of true for nearly every portion of every track.
Or they may ban anyone under the age of 18 from riding or racing. Surprised the government hasn't stepped in yet. Bottom line is that Taylor wasn't looking out for his kid, he's just another mini dad in my book.
This was on the 120 degree right in the far NE corner of the track. It was just a fast straight but it usually got really rough by moto 10 or so. Real easy to lose your grip there and get in trouble. I remember quite a few big crashes there over the years with bad consequences and helicopter rides out. Still, some of the best dirt anywhere and Jack was a master of prep. Always loved racing it.
I think this is too much, imo. Most likely his decision to sue was based on some sort of rational fear, either fear of his family's finances, or fear of his kid's future, or something roughly along those lines. It makes no sense for any of it to be malicious, which is what would warrant "scum".
Dude I knew used to say, "morals are a wonderful thing, if you can afford them" and it's something to chew on for a minute, because there's some layers to it beyond the obvious monetary, like what sort of kindnesses are you in a position to spare, and how cruel would you be to protect what you have? Shit's always more complex than they seem.
Without seeing more info, this did not look like it was a well substantiated case and was likely only settled because the two insurance companies involved are bunch of nerds.
Post a reply to: Statement from Rich Taylor (LACR Lawsuit)