I'm looking for GP teams who would be interested to sign American teenagers

4mxonly
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4/13/2010 8:25pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:06pm
Roscoe33 wrote:
I have witnessed the " home schooled" moto kids, in my experience that equals " no school" ....Pros that can't spell the kids name on a...
I have witnessed the " home schooled" moto kids, in my experience that equals " no school" ....Pros that can't spell the kids name on a poster !

Racing in Europe ....is that the dream of the racer or the parents ?
X2.


Homeschooling is a sad situation in the overwhelming majority of cases. I personally know a handful of racers who have been bred for motocross from the time they were 4-5 years old, and have made it to compete at the elite pro nat level. At some point, they jumped on the home-school bandwagon and have been doomed ever since. By the time they "graduate", they have zero social skills and the education equivalent of a 4th grader. Moreover, because we all know the odds of actually "making it", many of these kids don't even qualify to work at McDonald's, and by the time they throw every last penny into it, have nothing to show for themselves except the harsh reality of their situation, and their parents massive debt.


Fortunately, motocrossers take care of their own, and racers occasionally get lucky by finding jobs through previous brand reps that they built report with over the years of being a candidate for "the next big thing". Unfortunately, I think many x-pros (lacking higher education) get thrown into roles they know nothing about and end up lowering the professional standard of the industry, not to mention the potential for growth.


my .02
DC
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4/14/2010 6:55am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:07pm
The difference between racing at an amateur race and racing professional is just that: One is amateur, which comes with different rules, regulations and liabilities as far as your insurance carrier goes, and the other is a full-blown professional sport. Very few "contact" sports and motorsports allow kids under 18 to compete as professionally-licensed athletes.


As far as school goes, I think everyone involved hope it helps slow things down for some kids and they take their education more seriously. My parents were both school teachers and they preached staying in school -- to the point where I really didn't give pro motocross much of a shot, but I'm pretty with the way things turned out anyway!


I remember when one team manager complaining to me about a very high profile 16-year-old phenom on the nineties telling me (and I paraphrase), 'The problem with signing these kids is that you're signing their parents too because the kids can't even rent a car on the road, and you really don't know what you're getting when you sign up a whole family...'


In hindsight of what we've seen in the last decade or so, I'd say he had a pretty good point.


DC

MX Sports


one"O"three
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4/14/2010 8:07am
My opinion is:

The rule has taken away a year from some riders careers. It may not be a large number of riders, but it is a big deal to those. It is not like they can just race another year to make up for it, it is just lost income.

The school "side effect" has no impact on this rule. If the rider does not take education serious at 16, he will not take it serious at 17, 18 and so on. More importantly, he did not take it serious at 12, 13 and 14. How about he has to have a high school diploma before racing professional?

The rule only applies to a rider, who most would agree, is an exception to the rule. If a rider has the opportunity to race the US Nationals at 16 or 17, chances are he was a very successful amateur and has prepared for the next step in his or her career.

This rule can not be compared to the NBA, NFL or and other sport that has a collage system to guide you. Simply, they are too different to compare!



DC said:

"The gate at LL's will always be full".........TRUE!... But will your money making area and regional qualifiers always be? The cost to an amateur racer just to line up at Loretta's is overwhelming. I am not saying this is the reason for the rule, but it is a "side effect". I am not saying you do not have the right to make money promoting a race, nor do I think you make to much. I am just stating a fact on what it cost the average amateur family to compete at LL’s.

You were once told that "you are also signing the parents too because the kids can't even rent a car". Last time I checked you still can't rent a car at 18.

Maybe you could list off your reasons why this rule is "the right thing for motocross". Nobody who had anything to do with it has done that. Then, maybe it will be clear to us why this was done.


I am not sure how this rule will effect racing in the future. I do know we are in a steady decline and unless something changes we won't need to worry about rules. I also know that those who have the ability, opportunity and the resources will be racing in Europe before they are 18, that can’t be good for American motocross.

I am not for or against this rule and in fact have no dog in this fight. I just want to know why a minor can no longer work in the United States if he wants to race motocross.

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion!
DC
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4/14/2010 8:26am
Wow, 103, can you read what I wrote again about insurance liability for the teams that pay these kids and the promoters that hold professional races and the minor release forms being challenged in a court of law in both Tennessee and Florida?

If you think holding one or two kids back for two years so they can race area qualifiers and regionals is the reason for this, you are way, way off the mark. Go ask the team managers that all voted for this what they think. Or the SX promoter. Or AMA Pro Racing. It's about them still being kids, in the eyes of the law as well as the lawyers, but racing professionally. NASCAR and IndyCar and all don't have college either, for what that's worth.

DC
MX Sports

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Grendel
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4/14/2010 8:28am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2010 9:48am
If your child's talent really has the potential to fade from age sixteen to age eighteen, you'll end up wasting a lot of time, money and energy that should have been directed elsewhere anyhow.

If it doesn't, then the opportunities will still exist despite your impatience telling you otherwise.
j100
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4/14/2010 8:33am
i know of one family that will be making the trip to ride some Kawasaki's for a team in France. Woohoo
mccread
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4/14/2010 8:37am
If they are good enough to race for a factory US team at 16 they will be a top contender in the GPs from 15-17.

Then they can hit the US scene with even more experiance in life and from racing in all the different countries.

Adam Ciancurialo could be proof of this, he could be racing the GPs including US GP in 2012 and maybe even the nations that year! That will bring him on alot more than racing US amateurs... look at the speed of Roczen and Herlings this year etc..By the time he races in the US at 18 he would be unreal with all that experiance!

I don't see the problem they can race amatuer for 2more years too and go into the US scene then no problem, but racing the GPs will probably be a better life education and better for their bike speed and development as well than even racing the US from 16 to 18 with the pressure cooker that is US SX/MX racing.
offroadtoday
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4/14/2010 8:39am
DC wrote:
The difference between racing at an amateur race and racing professional is just that: One is amateur, which comes with different rules, regulations and liabilities as...
The difference between racing at an amateur race and racing professional is just that: One is amateur, which comes with different rules, regulations and liabilities as far as your insurance carrier goes, and the other is a full-blown professional sport. Very few "contact" sports and motorsports allow kids under 18 to compete as professionally-licensed athletes.


As far as school goes, I think everyone involved hope it helps slow things down for some kids and they take their education more seriously. My parents were both school teachers and they preached staying in school -- to the point where I really didn't give pro motocross much of a shot, but I'm pretty with the way things turned out anyway!


I remember when one team manager complaining to me about a very high profile 16-year-old phenom on the nineties telling me (and I paraphrase), 'The problem with signing these kids is that you're signing their parents too because the kids can't even rent a car on the road, and you really don't know what you're getting when you sign up a whole family...'


In hindsight of what we've seen in the last decade or so, I'd say he had a pretty good point.


DC

MX Sports


So then could a rider keep an amateur status and still ride the event with liability not becoming an issue....similar to golf?
j100
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4/14/2010 8:55am
the bottom line to this situation is this: 1 kid here and there will go, but the rest will stay. not many kids could get a ride at 16, even if the age limit was the same as previous years.

you will have a few exceptions to the rule that will go and good for them. the rest will do what they need to do here and turn pro when they can.
DC
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4/14/2010 8:58am
That's a good question, ORT, but I can imagine a lawyer arguing that the difference is that an amateur, under-aged golfer is not going to line up and take off with 39 other, professionally-licensed adult golfers going 50 mph in their carts, over jumps, etc...

As for Adam Cianciarulo going to Europe, I think we all expect that. It's the other 999 kids that aren't that fast at 16 as Adam likely will be that this will hopefully help, as well as the liability situation for teams and promoters.

DC
MX Sports

FreshTopEnd
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4/14/2010 9:05am
Grendel wrote:
If your child's talent really has the potential to fade from age sixteen to age eighteen, you'll end up wasting a lot of time, money and...
If your child's talent really has the potential to fade from age sixteen to age eighteen, you'll end up wasting a lot of time, money and energy that should have been directed elsewhere anyhow.

If it doesn't, then the opportunities will still exist despite your impatience telling you otherwise.
There so many parents in almost every youth sport that need to read this, and they won't get it. Thus, there are plenty of people willing to take their money. MX is hardly the worst in this regard. Not even close.
englishman
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4/14/2010 9:10am
It's a shame that parents worldwide don't put the kids best interests ( A good education and a normal upbringing which prepares them for life after mx ) ahead of thier own selfish need to fullfill thier unrealized dreams through thier kids.
Tiki
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4/14/2010 9:43am
DC wrote:
The difference between racing at an amateur race and racing professional is just that: One is amateur, which comes with different rules, regulations and liabilities as...
The difference between racing at an amateur race and racing professional is just that: One is amateur, which comes with different rules, regulations and liabilities as far as your insurance carrier goes, and the other is a full-blown professional sport. Very few "contact" sports and motorsports allow kids under 18 to compete as professionally-licensed athletes.


As far as school goes, I think everyone involved hope it helps slow things down for some kids and they take their education more seriously. My parents were both school teachers and they preached staying in school -- to the point where I really didn't give pro motocross much of a shot, but I'm pretty with the way things turned out anyway!


I remember when one team manager complaining to me about a very high profile 16-year-old phenom on the nineties telling me (and I paraphrase), 'The problem with signing these kids is that you're signing their parents too because the kids can't even rent a car on the road, and you really don't know what you're getting when you sign up a whole family...'


In hindsight of what we've seen in the last decade or so, I'd say he had a pretty good point.


DC

MX Sports


Maybe I just do not comprehend your text, maybe the English language is different for you. But here are the basics between the two definitions.
Professional - to be paid
Amateur - to be involved in sport for fun.

Now this is pretty universal to the rest of the world in regards of sport. One accepts payment, monetary gain for their endeavors, the other does not.

So lets revisit the term Amateur racing. Many of those that attend the Loretta Lynn Nationals are gaining monetary reward for their racing endeavors. Then it is disguised as support. At what point in time do the organizations decide that their rules have been grossly ignored and this is has been accepted and allowed to continue? After that organization itself has taken their share of the money to the bank?

This is why a GPA needs to be imposed. All parties do not know vocabulary or ethics.

Sorry - just calling a spade a spade.
sdrider16
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4/14/2010 9:54am
How do people not understand that this is a good thing? They are kids, let them be kids for a little while. If they are good enough they will make it, if now oh well.
offroadtoday
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4/14/2010 10:02am
DC wrote:
That's a good question, ORT, but I can imagine a lawyer arguing that the difference is that an amateur, under-aged golfer is not going to line...
That's a good question, ORT, but I can imagine a lawyer arguing that the difference is that an amateur, under-aged golfer is not going to line up and take off with 39 other, professionally-licensed adult golfers going 50 mph in their carts, over jumps, etc...

As for Adam Cianciarulo going to Europe, I think we all expect that. It's the other 999 kids that aren't that fast at 16 as Adam likely will be that this will hopefully help, as well as the liability situation for teams and promoters.

DC
MX Sports

True...but liability comes into play in so many hypothetical situations. Considering a golfer could kill someone by hitting them with a golf ball the risk is still out there, but I see what your premise is and I know the chances of a kid getting hurt vs. someone becoming injured from golfing are more than contrasting figures. I guess in the end it would come down to who has better lawyers and enough money to argue and protect a philosophy.
MXMattii
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4/14/2010 10:07am
In Europe they can ride from the age of 15year ...so that opens doors for guys like Adam Cianciarulo riding gp's and it will be great but the Grand Prix's aren't that easy like some yanks think... Rougher tracks, More good riders (deep field like Albertson calls it).

And that argument of "letting kids be kids" its something beautiful to pursue.
But as long that parents treat there 7years olds like pro's and yell like them like crazy ...then will rules doesn't chance a thing.
TeamGreen
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4/14/2010 10:20am
WTF is the Big Deal?

WHY does a kid HAVE to race Pro at 16?

Isn't EVERYONE gonna be affected by the "18" rule?

Let these kids grow up!

I've watched far too many kids, over these last 30+ years, get pushed into a Professional Career at far too young...

I could go all the way back to Rick Ryan.

Besides, when you've got folks like Steve Young tellin' ya that we haven't made Educating our Athletes a proper priority...I'm gonna listen.
one"O"three
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4/14/2010 10:29am
DC wrote:
Wow, 103, can you read what I wrote again about insurance liability for the teams that pay these kids and the promoters that hold professional races...
Wow, 103, can you read what I wrote again about insurance liability for the teams that pay these kids and the promoters that hold professional races and the minor release forms being challenged in a court of law in both Tennessee and Florida?

If you think holding one or two kids back for two years so they can race area qualifiers and regionals is the reason for this, you are way, way off the mark. Go ask the team managers that all voted for this what they think. Or the SX promoter. Or AMA Pro Racing. It's about them still being kids, in the eyes of the law as well as the lawyers, but racing professionally. NASCAR and IndyCar and all don't have college either, for what that's worth.

DC
MX Sports

I was only asking what the reasons are for the rule.
You say…..Insurance? Adults signing away the rights of a minor? More?

Note;
The comment about LL’s was only a remark made to “the gate will always be full”. From the outside, it seems the profits are made on the qualifying for Loretta’s, not so much the national. I could be wrong. Again, I have no problem with LL’s, just commenting.
wardy
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4/14/2010 10:45am
It should have been 18 a long LONG time ago.

now that it is. hopefully it should stay that way.

all this talk about LL and qualifying more time as an amatuer so MX sports will benifit is bullshit.

It's real simple and this has been talked about at ama for quite a few years. 18 is an adult in eyes of the law. Where things end up when they go wrong.

It's good business, and it's common sense. Maybe some of these riders will race the pro am's and compete more locally against each other and become more experienced before they go out and hit the big time. We on the amatuer side will have a better rider going over to the pros and the huge GAP between maybe alot easier to contend with.........
DC
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4/14/2010 10:59am
I give up on this one gang. I tried to explain it as best as I could. 103, adult minor releases are being challenged in court over a multitude of reasons, including one divorced parent signing it but not the other because they are not on site. Ask Engine Ice Dave for more on that.

Tiki, if we had the oversight ability to demand a GPA, I would be all for it, but we don't. Is support from a bike shop any different than free shoes from Nike because they sponsor your high school basketball team? Sure, you could make that argument, but then what? Kick out every kid who ever got a pack of tear-offs from Bevo?

And as for the area qualifiers thing goes, there's not enough "profit" there to buy a single copy of a magazine off the newsstand. What small fee goes to running the whole program.

Time to move on for me.
DC
MX Sports
Tiki
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4/14/2010 11:19am
DC,
I am not really pointing at the free tear offs or one/two pair of shoes from Nike for a basketball team. This is more directed at the clothing sponsors, aftermarket companies and manufacturers that provide a plethora of goods to their chosen few. Thus changing the playing field so in order to be competitive, the marketplace has to match it. This is done more to the point of excess. Add that to the manufacturing contingency dollars that facilitate the sandbagging done in classes to obtain the money from multiple classes. Then these support items are sold on eBay and Craigslist. I appreciate your response and your acknowledgment of the GPA. Though I am sure you have a full understanding of the actions I am commenting on.

Granted to curtail this would effect the business of our industry in what could be said are true economic down times.

A very wise person said it best: "The essence of a lie is not the words you choose,
but the message you convey"

I am sorry but this is one part of Amateur racing that has surpassed its meaning. Factory coddled teens with endorsement deals is not amateur. Be honest to the sport and the rest of us. Change the name to semi-pro.
phudsport
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4/14/2010 11:24am
DC wrote:
I give up on this one gang. I tried to explain it as best as I could. 103, adult minor releases are being challenged in court...
I give up on this one gang. I tried to explain it as best as I could. 103, adult minor releases are being challenged in court over a multitude of reasons, including one divorced parent signing it but not the other because they are not on site. Ask Engine Ice Dave for more on that.

Tiki, if we had the oversight ability to demand a GPA, I would be all for it, but we don't. Is support from a bike shop any different than free shoes from Nike because they sponsor your high school basketball team? Sure, you could make that argument, but then what? Kick out every kid who ever got a pack of tear-offs from Bevo?

And as for the area qualifiers thing goes, there's not enough "profit" there to buy a single copy of a magazine off the newsstand. What small fee goes to running the whole program.

Time to move on for me.
DC
MX Sports
Too much whining and crying. A bad decision is a bad decision. Harm to American MX has been done: GH is out of the AMA MX.... thanks god got upgraded and went on the international stage; our young champs are out of the Pro races till they are 18, expecting them to wait extra time till they can race the big guys is simply retarded. That's the outcome and that's all we have to deal with. Whining, crying and excuses to buy general approval won't help.
jamma10
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4/14/2010 11:25am
TeamGreen wrote:
WTF is the Big Deal? WHY does a kid HAVE to race Pro at 16? Isn't EVERYONE gonna be affected by the "18" rule? Let these...
WTF is the Big Deal?

WHY does a kid HAVE to race Pro at 16?

Isn't EVERYONE gonna be affected by the "18" rule?

Let these kids grow up!

I've watched far too many kids, over these last 30+ years, get pushed into a Professional Career at far too young...

I could go all the way back to Rick Ryan.

Besides, when you've got folks like Steve Young tellin' ya that we haven't made Educating our Athletes a proper priority...I'm gonna listen.
"WHY does a kid HAVE to race Pro at 16? "

I agree.

It seems that everybody is always looking for the next big thing in motocross and the age at which a kid gains publicity seems to be getting younger and younger - magazines even run articles on 6-7 year olds and teams are scouting them for christ sakes.

I know a lot of riders have started pro careers at a young age, but the whole home schooling thing and the amount of money poured into young kids 'potential' career is ridiculous nowadays. It seems parents will go to any length in order to gain a competitive edge.

While its a familiar story over here in Europe we obviously don't have such large scale amateur championships, so the scene isn't quite as intense. The really fast kids are spread out across countries which limits the rivalry somewhat.
Huckster
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4/14/2010 12:05pm
Tiki wrote:
DC, I am not really pointing at the free tear offs or one/two pair of shoes from Nike for a basketball team. This is more directed...
DC,
I am not really pointing at the free tear offs or one/two pair of shoes from Nike for a basketball team. This is more directed at the clothing sponsors, aftermarket companies and manufacturers that provide a plethora of goods to their chosen few. Thus changing the playing field so in order to be competitive, the marketplace has to match it. This is done more to the point of excess. Add that to the manufacturing contingency dollars that facilitate the sandbagging done in classes to obtain the money from multiple classes. Then these support items are sold on eBay and Craigslist. I appreciate your response and your acknowledgment of the GPA. Though I am sure you have a full understanding of the actions I am commenting on.

Granted to curtail this would effect the business of our industry in what could be said are true economic down times.

A very wise person said it best: "The essence of a lie is not the words you choose,
but the message you convey"

I am sorry but this is one part of Amateur racing that has surpassed its meaning. Factory coddled teens with endorsement deals is not amateur. Be honest to the sport and the rest of us. Change the name to semi-pro.
Is MXSports the NCAA of motocross?
SteveS
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4/14/2010 12:12pm
DC wrote:
I wish the reporter over there would check that "claim" about the reason for raising the minimum age limit to 18 being to encourage kids to...
I wish the reporter over there would check that "claim" about the reason for raising the minimum age limit to 18 being to encourage kids to stay in school. While that might be a good side-effect, the main reason was due to parental consent and liability release forms and the exposure those situations cause for not only promoters but also the race teams that hire them for professional competition -- in both SX and MX.


DC

MX Sports
That and work visas for Canadian kids.....
c3011
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4/14/2010 12:14pm
DC wrote:
I'm really still not sure how many 15-, 16- and 17-year-old American kids are ready to move to Europe at that age, but it's certainly an...
I'm really still not sure how many 15-, 16- and 17-year-old American kids are ready to move to Europe at that age, but it's certainly an option.

DC
MX Sports

I think you'd be surprised how many of them go to Europe to chase pro soccer dreams.
c3011
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4/14/2010 12:17pm
DC wrote:
I give up on this one gang. I tried to explain it as best as I could. 103, adult minor releases are being challenged in court...
I give up on this one gang. I tried to explain it as best as I could. 103, adult minor releases are being challenged in court over a multitude of reasons, including one divorced parent signing it but not the other because they are not on site. Ask Engine Ice Dave for more on that.

Tiki, if we had the oversight ability to demand a GPA, I would be all for it, but we don't. Is support from a bike shop any different than free shoes from Nike because they sponsor your high school basketball team? Sure, you could make that argument, but then what? Kick out every kid who ever got a pack of tear-offs from Bevo?

And as for the area qualifiers thing goes, there's not enough "profit" there to buy a single copy of a magazine off the newsstand. What small fee goes to running the whole program.

Time to move on for me.
DC
MX Sports
This is what got our local track, you need both parents signatures for a kid to ride and then some blood sucking lawyer is still going to find a way around it.
RACEGUY
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4/14/2010 12:19pm
As far as the education component goes, the teams could stick their necks out and take the lead here.

If the "good rides" came with some educational requirements, good marks just might become a consideration.

I can see a team like JGR considering it as part of their program.
Tiki
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4/14/2010 12:19pm
Huckster wrote:
Is MXSports the NCAA of motocross?
I honestly don't follow you here. But I would ask how much parity is in amateur racing at these levels? All these families are making it to the nationals on their own dime, sans support of parts, bikes and deals from the sports favorite beverage? This isn't the local dirt hill getting together for a Sunday of motos. I also dont know if DC is the correct person to direct the questions. What I do know is that the term Amateur is so far removed from what is factual that the sport is only doing itself and those the participate a disservice by not adjusting to the growth of the sport.

So I agree with many of you. No reason a 16 year old should be participating in a professional event if he can not write his own name without help.
offroadtoday
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4/14/2010 12:54pm
Huckster wrote:
Is MXSports the NCAA of motocross?
Tiki wrote:
I honestly don't follow you here. But I would ask how much parity is in amateur racing at these levels? All these families are making it...
I honestly don't follow you here. But I would ask how much parity is in amateur racing at these levels? All these families are making it to the nationals on their own dime, sans support of parts, bikes and deals from the sports favorite beverage? This isn't the local dirt hill getting together for a Sunday of motos. I also dont know if DC is the correct person to direct the questions. What I do know is that the term Amateur is so far removed from what is factual that the sport is only doing itself and those the participate a disservice by not adjusting to the growth of the sport.

So I agree with many of you. No reason a 16 year old should be participating in a professional event if he can not write his own name without help.
Funny and true, but I know plenty of guy's in their late 20's to 30's who still need help writing their names....lol.

Post a reply to: I'm looking for GP teams who would be interested to sign American teenagers

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