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I still think the DMV needs to explain their decision, they are the ones that stirred the pot. It is exponentially more realistic that it was a Typo than an actual "physical" re set. Really like to know what tools they have available and how they came to their conclusion.
But Sumdood, as much as I hope it works out, I do not think there is shot in hell of getting ALL of his money back ,particularly any interest and insurance paid out. ,thats just not how it works, after all he's had full use of the vehicle -- how many miles has he put on that truck since taking ownership? ?
One other BIG thing to consider that I forgot to bring up earlier --- You mentioned the interest paid etc. ,which indicates there was a loan involved . Now, read this carefully --- I have 15 Lenders on board here and I have specialized in finance for my entire 40 year career. Of my 15 Lenders ,exactly ZERO will loan money on a vehicle with a "Branded" title ---and yes, they all check . So what has his lender said about all of this ? Again this info leads me to believe that it was not a branded title when the DCH took the Tacoma on trade ,nor when your son bought it. There is a ton of missing pieces here .. As I stated earlier ,PM me the Vin and find out exactly where/when the issue started .
You opened this thread asking for advice. You were told overwhelmingly to hire a lawyer by multiple different people. But here you are, telling us the DMV and the dealer are pointing fingers at eachother so you’re going to wait til the manager gets back from his vacation next weeks.
bro.
Hire a lawyer doesn’t mean “sue the dealership”, it means hire some whose job it is to research and understand these issues in your state. You have a problems that needs fixed. Find someone to fix it. The DMV or dealer may never even know your son’s talked to a lawyer as he may never need to.
This boggles my mind. Its like watching a leak flood your house, but when everyone says “call a plumber” you respond “uhh, I’ll just let it run a little longer and maybe it’ll just stop on its own.”
Bad analogy, the leak creates more damage. Waiting till the GM comes back to see if they do the right thing create no damage. Hiring an attorney at this point creates damage because the dealership cannot anymore offer to fix the situation. It immediately escalates to a legal level.
TM
You didn't notice the other opinions 180 degrees the other way ?
I read and appreciate them all. I got lots of helpful information. I'm guessing this will be the GM's first time hearing about it, so lets see what he says and go from there. If lawyers are needed he'll call one. It's either clean title, or a refund. There's not a lot to discuss. We're going to give him the chance to "Make it right". Their words. Anyway we'll know next Tuesday
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TM you are 100% correct. Not to mention, hiring an Attorney for this type of case is going to cost more money than whatever any recovery may be , not to mention as you stated that any hope of a "Goodwill adjustment" has gone out the window . I know good attorneys here in West Pa charge $ 150/hr. Can't even imagine what they get in Sunny California lol.
Im still waiting for Dood to PM me the Vin. If the issue initiated with a CarFax posting , then I should be able to pinpoint when and where the issue began and definitively who was responsible
Perhaps you missed the part where I said the dealer or dmv never even need to know the son has a lawyer. He needs someone who can determine the responsible party (dmv or dealer) and tell him the steps to go about fixing the problem. It may be a negotiation with the dealer and no mention of a lawyer, it may be a letter from the lawyer to the correct supervisor at the DMV, but it’s certainly not Vital MX speculating on what to do. This is above everyone’s pay grade. Son needs to contact a lawyer licensed in the state of California.
I agree, as a service manager at multiple Ford locations If the roll back was missed by those who did the Used vehicle inspection appropriate actions would follow. But to involve an attorney immediately is asinine. Simply calling the Sales department who will then contact service who will then contact customer and ask for said vehicle to be brought in to verify the odometer tampering. If true, that CAN be serious for the previous owner who sold the unit to the dealership. That is a crime and service would contact the police if verified. You nailed it with the appropriate actions from the dealership to fix the situation for the customer. Zero dealerships unless a small time shady dealership would so such a thing.
If you handle it level headed so will the dealership. If you go in guns blazing you will lose in the end just off time and frustration.
But Zyck, us car guys are ALL scums of the earth and deserve to be flogged in public !!! LMFAO !!
3rd gear pinned through the dealers front door.
I once had a customer bring in his daughter’s ford fiesta. Well known for having clutch issues due to the design which was an Audi sorts car design (dual clutch DPS6 transmission) think an automatic manual. The TCM transmission control module would slowly make the clutch constantly slip over time due to the constant start and stop. Eventually vehicle would throw codes and you would need to replace both the clutch, and TCM. Rinse and repeat, horrible design that will never work.
Anywho, customer came in the day my advisor said the vehicle would be done at 3pm. Customer came around 1pm and asked if the vehicle was done and said he received a call that it was complete. Advisor then told me he called and noted it would be done at 3pm. So the customer gets mad and is yelling in my service drive and I overhear him say give them a 1 star review. So i walk out and ask him if I can help him with anything or if he had a problem. “Nope” So I go back to my office and he then does the same thing to my advisor telling him that a bad review is coming and he will tell everyone never to come to us again. Mind you we were a top 100 dealership nationwide for ford and customer service. We took it very seriously as a presidents dealership. I then walk out and see the gentlemen again and asked if I could do anything to help him. He then told me finally what was going on which I already knew of course. These are the crazy people you get to deal with. At that point I looked at him and told him exactly what the advisor said (had notes in computer when he called etc.) He looked at me and called us liars. I then gave him one more opportunity to be honest, he doubled down on the survey issue. So I instructed my mechanic to stop what he was doing, called my tow service and asked him which ford dealership he wanted us to drop it off at. We were done with him and refused to work on his vehicle.
😂
It's obviously a shitty deal. Speaking only for myself...it's a used Toyota with decent mileage. I'm gonna put 200k trouble free miles on it and if it's not ready for the scrap yard it'll get sold OBO cause it won't be worth shit as a trade-in.
How much money and heartache are you willing to spend if the dealer digs in his heels? If there is nothing mechanically wrong with it...I'd keep on whistling...after having a decent conversation with the GM.
. Just my .02.
Yes it's financed, and it makes perfect sense that a lender wouldn't loan money for a branded title, but he got financed so I don't know what to say about that. Maybe they fast tracked it through without checking just to get him in the truck I have no idea. I was too busy to get the vin # today but I'll get it. I'm curious too
If they offer a refund of full purchase price and nothing more (not interest, insurance etc) would he take it?
For all you guys "in the know", doesn't the computer also keep track of the mileage? And if so, can't they just hook it up to the scanner machine to find out if it was a clerical error or in fact someone finding a way to alter the digits?
This brings to mind (I think it was Porky's) the kids with the car on jacks in reverse to undo the miles they put on dad's prize car.
This thread just reinforces why I gave up a successful career in the Car Business.
Being referred to constantly as a liar, conman, thief, extortionist, et al; when you’re really just trying to be honest and be fair to people? It starts to take a toll on you.
Yes, I made good money. That required me living at the store, seven days a week, 30.5 days a month, 363 days a year. Closed for Christmas and Mother’s Day.
I assume the branded title makes the truck less valuable. I hope your son has loan “gap” coverage. I Would hate to see the truck involved in an accident and insurance company only pay out half the loan or some crazy stuff like that.
I hope not, but that's up to him depending on the number I guess. He's got every expense he's spent on the truck down the the penny. We'll see what happens when the head honcho gets involved. To me ? My opinion ? He should get every penny he's put into that truck back, he didn't do anything wrong. He went into the dealer, paid the down payment, signed the papers, drove the truck away happy and that should've have been the end of it. He didn't do anything wrong. As far as I'm concerned ? the dealer can eat the interest to compensate for their incompetence. I have no idea what or how they'll want to handle it, other than they say they want to "Make it right". We'll see what their idea of "Right" is and he can make a decision then.
Pit Row
Not even sure how the ODO is hackable now. Most DMV folks are actually pretty clueless. All they’re probably looking at is that the ECM was “flashed”. More than likely that was due to a “aftermarket tune” etc;.
If the “GM” is worth his salt, he’ll eat this shit and make your kid happy. His one crap experience cancels out 100 attaboys. Sometimes, public relations trumps business. No pun intended.
Distance traveled is stored in multiple places, ECU, bcm, abs module ect ect. They all must jive. It’s not as simple as the old days where a cluster repair shop can write to chips on the board. They could on a new one but it wouldn’t jive with all the other locations it’s stored. Unfortunately anyone who thinks it’s almost impossible on a modern vehicle is very naive.
with regards to the topic, I Can’t see a dealer (unless we’re talking the fly by night used car shop with the waiving inflatables out front) taking the risk when it’s so likely to be caught due to DMV stuff ect to make a few extra grand.
He has the opportunity to turn this into a huge attaboy. God knows I’ve eaten some cheese in my business to cover an oversight. There’s a positive outcome available, my sons disappointed because he likes the truck, but he’s already eyeballing other options.
Get out of that truck ASAP and don’t look back at it! 🤣
I knew a guy that typically kept his vehicles for 10 years. Knew he'd put a lot of miles on it as it was a business vehicle. So as soon as he bought it, he'd buy a new instrument cluster. All the miles racked up on that cluster and then the original cluster would get reinstalled with minimal mileage. Well, there's more to it but in a nut shell.
Another point to be made here- Lenders are typically very strict on having their lien placed on the vehicle and title in their possession within 60 days. If that’s not done, they will demand the note be repaid (funding reversed) immediately. Other reasons for this action would be a Branded title, incorrect VIN or incorrect mileage. At times ,at the lenders discretion, they will extend a little additional time to “perfect” the title . But no way in hell would any lenders in the US wait 8+ months to recall the funding. When the funding is reversed, that means the contract dollar amount has been debited back out of the Dealers account ,as the loan has been cancelled. That also means that your son would not be making payments ( as there is no active open loan ) and is driving around in the dealers Tacoma for free. There is certainly a lot of information that is missing or being misconstrued.
That’s basically what clocking was. ECM, BCM, I don’t think you can hack it. My Mustang had its stock “ECM” and the one with the nitrous tunes etc, on it. Anyway, the car always had the right ODO, no matter which ECM was in it.
Every instance I’ve ever seen of an instance like this was some dipshit an oil change place or something similar. No Car Guy is going to Federal Prison for a thousand dollars.
That was Ferris Bueller's Day Off, and the car came off the jacks, went out of the garage and down a hill in reverse.
Well, I can tell you from experience, my daughter bought a used Toyota from I think Montebello Ford. It took a whole year for her to get her pink slip and registration. She had to write a letter to the GM and say WTF, it's been a year and I still don't have my papers. 2 weeks later, she had papers.
"Pink Slips" are temporary registration and are only good for 60 days (in Pa). We don't even issue those anymore as we are full agents of the state, so with us, you get your actual State issued registration(owners card) from us when you're signing out at the desk. The Title you won't see until its paid off and the lender releases their lien.
But don't get confused. Registration (with your DMV) and a perfected Title with the Lender are 2 completely different things.
The Lender DEMANDS that their Lien is placed properly on the vehicle and if something is amiss ,ie. Branded title(Salvage/Flood/Theft Recovery/Rebuilt , wrong VIN , odom disc, they 100% have the ability to "kill" the deal and most definitely will. Meaning the dealer returns all funds to the Lender . Customer needs to return the vehicle etc,etc. The fact that Sumdoods son hasn't been forced to return the truck and is still making payments (I'm assuming) leads me to believe that the DMV actually hasn't issued a "Branded" title or the Lender would be going absolutely apeshit , debited the dealers account at which point the Dealer would also be goin apeshit and have made arrangements to get that truck back from the Son.
Another Factoid to keep in mind --nothing to do with this scenario-- but another reason the Lender can demand repayment upon notice ,is if they find that there was fraudulent info on the initial credit application. All lenders base their decision on info gathered on the credit app , whichever credit bureaus they use (TransUnion, Experian.Equifax) I use TU and EXP, but all 3rd party lenders use one or more of those 3. Also, in most cases they also have electronic means to verify employment, bank accounts, residence,etc., however if they find a major discrepancy in the information after the fact ,they reserve the right to reverse their decision and kill the deal. That doesn't happen very often these days since they can verify damn near everything ahead of time ,but BELIEVE ME , that still happens much more often than an actual title issue .
For the life of me , I can't believe that a Mega store owned by Lithia , doesn't have a direct connection with the State ( like we do) so they can do the state registration on-site and place the lien on the title properly . When I do a delivery (yes I still do a lot of face to face paperwork) Our DealerTrack system is tied into the Pa DMV , when I enter the Vin and miles , the system immediately alerts me if there is an issue and stops the process. If all is ok, we also place the ELT number of the Lender and the Lien is also immediately placed properly. Easy peasy . That system only costs us approx $15 per deal and eliminates almost 100% of any Lienholder/Registration/Titling problems .
But there is certainly some missing information on Sumdoods situation that Im not privvy to yet.
OP I sent you a pm. Aside from the vin I haven't got to you yet you know what we know.
Kid went to the dealer, liked the truck, filled out the paperwork, drove it away and has been making payments and waiting for his registration for 8 months.
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