I'm not a race promoter or track owner but wanted to bring this format some attention because it is really fun and would bring more people to the track.
For the riders it is less waiting around, more track time, and less sandbagging. For the promoters it is less classes to score and a more predictable/shorter day. You might be hesitant because less classes = less entry fees, but I think you would get more people so you would come out ahead.
Sat. Minis Only
Less prep to track, reduces the hectic scramble if kids and parents both race.
Sun. Big Bikes Only (All motos are 20min +2 laps)
Sign up 7-9
Open Practice 8:30-9:30
Riders are randomly seeded into a Qualifier Moto 1,2,3 (All big bikes, no CC restrictions)
Top 1/3 go to A main, middle 1/3 to B main, bottom 1/3 to C main
Qualifier 1 9:45-10:15
Qualifier 2 10:20-10:50
Qualifier 3 11:00-11:30
11:30-12 intermission/track prep
C Main 12-12:30
B Main 12:40-1:10
A Main 1:20-2:00
You think doubling the cost of putting on the race it’s a good idea? Easy to see why you’re not a promoter.
I don’t hate it but it’s such little time actually racing which I guess isn’t much different then current. Most races in my area are Saturday / Sunday so they are already two day formats with practice on Friday.
All local races I've been to are <10 min motos. This would be 3x more track time.
How would this double the cost?
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10 min Moto’s is crazy. 30 min in one race is too much for the average weekend warrior though. Most here are 20 min which is a good length I think.
One of our local tracks has a dedicated mini track.
All our local races are 4 laps (30 or so classes, some with very low numbers), which means less than 10 minute races for adults. This is a longer track, with 2+ minute lap times and watching the littlest kids on that track is brutal (think 15+ minute races for the 3-4 shaft drive kids). The days run very long as is (8am practice until about 6pm or later racing).
They shortened the day considerably by only having the advanced 50cc kids on the big track and moved all the other young ones to the mini track. I'm not sure about the logistics since I don't have a kid racing (what if your moto is the same time as your kids??). It also condenses the day a lot if you are only having your kids race.
I personally dislike our short moto's locally. I typically don't even get close to tired during the course of a race. I'm limited entirely by my lack of talent. And I spend an entire day at the track (like I said, something like 8am-6pm plus hours of drive time) for less than 30 minutes of riding. I'd love to see 15 or 20 minute motos, but I have no idea how that really works out logistically - many classes would probably need to be combined (see the OP for a possible approach).
By having to pay the employees/ETM’s for 2 days instead of one?
Fair point. I thought they were paid hourly, so 2 shorter days vs. 1 long ass day would cost more but not double. I'd argue that the increase in number of participants could offset the additional costs.
A few more points...
Lots of folks used to one day racing do work around the house on the other day off.
What are the parents to do with the kids all day when they are racing?
Some folks get a room for the night or may have to pay the track for an additional night/RV.
I am sure I could come up with at least a half dozen more legitimate reasons if you want.
I would also argue the turnout could be lower as not everybody can do two day racing with the family or just say the hell with it because of many other factors including the ones I listed.
I know I always loved it when my employer made me have to come to work 2 days to get 1 days pay. How about you?
Minis in Morning, Big bikes in afternoon. Or Vice versa
If you're an adult racing, with a kid racing, theres no different you're still there all day.
If you dont have kids racing, you're there for half the day, if your kids race and you dont, you're there for half the day.
I really really really want to like the idea of woods racing, show up at noon for a 1PM gate drop , ride two hours, and home by dinner, but I'm just not ready to throw in the towel on moto yet.
Lots of folks used to one day racing do work around the house on the other day off.
I'm advocating for 1 day of racing for minis and a separate day for big bikes. Both days are shorter. Yes it would be more convenient for racers with children on mini to do it all in one day, but it would be nice for the rest of us if there were fewer classes and less sitting around. Maybe run them on 1 day and do the kids after big bikes?
What are the parents to do with the kids all day when they are racing?
What do parents do with their kids now when they are racing?
Some folks get a room for the night or may have to pay the track for an additional night/RV.
This format could also save people have having to stay in a hotel if they don't need to be at the track so early or late. Also people love taking their RV's to motocross races. I'm pretty sure there are some people that race just so they get to take the camper somewhere!
I am sure I could come up with at least a half dozen more legitimate reasons if you want.
Yeah, if you have the time I'd love to hear them. I hold the opinion that the short (<10min) motos and long days aren't fun, and thought it would be constructive to get the conversation going on how things could be different, specifically in local outlaw motocross.
If a track is happy with what they're doing, then great! I've seen a few local tracks that race often and they maybe get 50 racers, a big class is like 5 racers. For those guys maybe it's time to mix it up and try something new.
EVERY promoter stopped reading at "less classes"...
How can local MX tracks gather a regular spectating crowd? Maybe it’s only in my area, but the only people watching the race in the stands at my local tracks have a direct relationship with someone on the track. Go to any local short track and 80% of the people in the stands don’t know anyone out there racing, but they pay their $15-$20 for a few hours worth of entertainment.
Ever been to a dirt track oval ? The racing is intense, drivers banging on each other. The 900 hp engines sound awesome getting worked while drifting. 130 mph then kick it sideways the drivers r great. Our local track got aprox 2,000 spectators in the 90,s . Full gate of 125a riders from iL. Tracks were more dangerous with great crashes. 20 min + 2 race maybe in A class but the rest should never b ovr 5 laps.
I think the short track has the advantage of bleacher seating you can see all or most of track, usually at night under lights so it’s cool and not getting burnt up, no or minimal dust, usually sells beer, is a weekly event everyone knows when it’s happening. That and they have figure 8s at the end of the night 😂
Cocaine and strippers for the night show, and plenty of food, well executed and organized ran event with clarity. Proper track prep, flaggers who know wtf is going on, and a fun layout that offers to every skill level. Easy stuff 😂
Could it be,,,, the fights?!!
I used to go to Budds Creek and watch the weekly dirt track races and stands were always packed!
Fair races are usually packed too.
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Free parking!
I think it might work in some areas . Depends on the riders that You get and if they are already used to 2 day races or 1 day races. I do like the idea. But I think it might work better for off road style races that You can get more riders on the track at one time.
How many riders would You put on the gate at each time? A 40 rider gate, so 40 ish riders per class, 3 classes , 120 riders. Not a big turnout . I know its not the early 2000's anymore . But Southwick would get 900-1200 riders on opening day , and my first race I ever did had 120 riders just in my class. 3 gates of qualifiers to race 1 points paying moto.
How would You make it so you could have over 120 riders?
You could end up turning racers away by having a rider that normally races the B or C class that is pretty fast. Or a new rider who has never raced that was pretty quick could also have a similar issue. After racing a race in a B or A class they may no longer be able to run the C or B class when they race at other organizations.
Another cost related issue . I have heard in the past that tracks insurance is a certain amount per event day. So a double day costs twice the insurance $$
I do like the idea and trying to think of something new. But another way tracks make money is selling food. And You sell more food when people are at the track. Spectators at Nationals tend to really start showing up shortly before the main motos so You might not have people there long enough to eat or drink.
I get it that its designed to attract more spectators , but the average entry fee around me is around 4 or 5 times as much $$ as a spectator fee. The biggest issue's I see are the way riders could mess up the classes they race at other races, and how You limit Yourself to a low for my area turn out of racers. If Your able to attract 6 or more times more spectators than the number of entry fees You miss out on by not giving riders multiple classes to ride in. It could work. There are some locals that will sign up in 3 or 4 classes. at $40-50 per class. That is a single rider spending $200 just on entry fees. Plus they normally pay the same fee as a spectator .
I would like to see You make the idea work. I think it could be a cool format to have for a 1 off yearly race. And offer a big prize $$ and advertise that racers would be going for a shot at X amount of $$. But I do see some reasons it would not work in my area anyway.
I’ve got to give the dude credit for looking for a solution.
I think the bit about modern MX tracks being too small to accommodate a lot of riders at the same time is key. People talk about the need for fewer classes, but the off-road disciplines aren't that different in that regard, and they are still able to have long races on a predetermined time schedule, mainly just because they can compress all entries to a handful of races. I don't know what the solution is since it's challenging these days to open a track of any size.
Last race I saw was in Fonda,Ny. It was packed also. Local buisnesses of any kind r quick to sponsor a local stock car. They used to race 6 nights a week every week in Wi. I think it’s 4or 5 now. They hv a paper magazine for the local races yet. Out local track advertised on the radio & local news showed up. Fair Mx races here used to b popular. A local fast kid just moved up to a 125, He has a couple local buisnesses sponsoring him. 1 is an energy drink.
Strippers and maybe even a tasteful donkey show
It starts at the top. The useless AMA and MX Sports need a complete redo.
Yeah man. I’m at Eastbay raceway park at least two Saturdays a month. 1/3 dirt oval, tons of history there including the Winter Nationals which has brought drivers in from all over the country to race for 6 nights a week for a little over a month. It looks like the property will change hands in October of this and unfortunately it looks like the Clay by the Bay will be no more.
The track I frequent the most has absolutely no tolerance for fighting of any kind and the fans always show up.
What does that have to do with it?
TONS of local racing has absolutely nothing to do with the AMA. I'm not even sure of a track within 3 states of me, besides Washougal, that requires an AMA card.
Give some context please or we're just gonna assume you just wanted to look cool and take a shot at MXSports.
Too many classes, too long a day, too little track time.
Really not hard.
Hell, if i had to do 20 min + 2 laps, twice in one day, You may as well haul in a stretcher for me at the end.
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