Stark Varg Racing Debut

djr
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3/31/2024 7:24am
Beagle wrote:
Well, here is your 5K VIN. https://www.azmotocity.com/default.asp?page=xNewInventoryDetail&id=15265034&p=1&s=(Sort%20By)&d=D&sq=Stark&fr=xnewinventory It's in the US so production likely over 6000. Feel free to not acknowledge you're pushing BS claims without...

Well, here is your 5K VIN.

https://www.azmotocity.com/default.asp?page=xNewInventoryDetail&id=1526…

It's in the US so production likely over 6000.

Feel free to not acknowledge you're pushing BS claims without a shred of evidence, answer with a meme and move the goalposts again.

Also since this thread is about racing, the Varg is legal to race in Finland in pretty much all disciplines: MX, GNCC, Enduro, Supermoto, Ice racing and so on https://www.moottoriliitto.fi/lajit/saannot/?fbclid=IwAR1PGz7Fut851zi-J…

 It's been said 100 times, but worth repeating - VIN numbers don't have to be sequential , only need to be unique to one vehicle.

So a 5000 number is not really proof that that many bikes have been made.

However, if they wanted to exaggerate the number of bikes made so far , there is probably easier ways to do this , as not many people notice or care about VIN no.s, just a few people on forums.

 

MxAddic
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3/31/2024 7:33am
djr wrote:
 It's been said 100 times, but worth repeating - VIN numbers don't have to be sequential , only need to be unique to one vehicle. So...

 It's been said 100 times, but worth repeating - VIN numbers don't have to be sequential , only need to be unique to one vehicle.

So a 5000 number is not really proof that that many bikes have been made.

However, if they wanted to exaggerate the number of bikes made so far , there is probably easier ways to do this , as not many people notice or care about VIN no.s, just a few people on forums.

 

One thing is for sure they are making more than they can sell. They broke the internet with 18K preorders...

Real question. How many dealers ordered their floor units based on the blockbuster BS number.

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Phil109
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3/31/2024 8:20am
Phil109 wrote:
My son picked his up Thursday afternoon from a dealer in Austin. We took it out to three palms in Conroe yesterday. That is the absolute...

My son picked his up Thursday afternoon from a dealer in Austin. We took it out to three palms in Conroe yesterday. That is the absolute most fun I’ve ever had on a dirt bike. It’s not even fair how easy and fast that thing is to ride. That said, we took it down to 20% battery in a little less than 45 mins of riding time and we aren’t exactly lining up for A class lol. Looking to trade it back in for a new Yamaha 450 as that battery time is just unacceptable. It is a pretty sandy track so I’m sure that has a lot to do with it but that is the main track we ride. Once they get the batteries to last 2-3 hours in those conditions I will be going electric for sure. 

Beagle wrote:
Fair enough, but 2 h MX range won't happen any time soon (about there for enduro but not MX). For now you'd need a generator to...

Fair enough, but 2 h MX range won't happen any time soon (about there for enduro but not MX). For now you'd need a generator to charge between motos, if that's not convenient to you or you just want to avoid that hassle (and extra cost!) then it does not make sense to add an electric bike to your garage.

Some tracks already rent electrical outlet for RV for a small fee, more (not all) will offer this for electric bikes that only require standard household outlet. That will be here much sooner than 3 h battery range on a dirtbike Tongue

Yeah we looked at generators and stuff but it’s just a pain to have to pack that crap around. We are just weekend warriors and ride 2-3 times a month maybe. If he can’t get a good deal on trade then we will stick it out and buy a nice gen and rip it. It’s a blast to ride! Cheat code for sure lol

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8500rpm
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3/31/2024 9:38am

Now, really expensive hobby for sure, but if you happen to drive an EV (not Tesla I guess) and they support V2L, you can just plug the Varg into the car and sit in the pit during your break waiting for next moto/practice and in 30-40minutes you have plenty of more ride time. As far as I know both Kia, Ford, Nissan, Hyuindai support V2L. I did it last weekend for the first time, works flawlessly, 100% silent, no generator and doesn't draw much range from the big car battery.

V2L and e-DirtBikes combo will go far in the future.

3

The Shop

Moto Braap
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3/31/2024 10:52am

I just got my electric bike but ran into a few problems.  I wasn’t sure what kind of oil or gas to use, had trouble figuring out how to do a top end piston change, my clutch basket seems to have some issues since it doesn’t look like there are many plates in there, and I think I need an aftermarket exhaust pipe and silencer since the engine makes some mouse-like squeaking noises.  Anyone else run into these issues?

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philG
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3/31/2024 2:21pm

They wont do a 10 lap race round a Go-Kart track, without running out of puff. 

Beagle
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3/31/2024 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 3/31/2024 2:59pm
philG wrote:

They wont do a 10 lap race round a Go-Kart track, without running out of puff. 

National Supermoto champ used 20% battery for 20 min race (set at 56 hp). And he got that back after 20 min charging break. Here's a vid I posted here 6 months ago:

 

​​​​

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RACING
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4/1/2024 6:12am

I'm sure Anton is gonna looooove this little test.

Wink

 

 

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7eleven
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4/1/2024 9:29am
philG wrote:

They wont do a 10 lap race round a Go-Kart track, without running out of puff. 

I can assure you I am blasting 30min moto’s right now. Loamy dirt at 50hp & 50% regen. No bullshit. 

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Beagle
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4/1/2024 9:42am
RACING wrote:
I'm sure Anton is gonna looooove this little test.    

I'm sure Anton is gonna looooove this little test.

Wink

 

 

That's super promising!

Flux is aiming for 7.9 kWh, current 7.0 kWh prototype weights 122 kg (with lights, onboard data logging etc) for 85 hp.

The other obvious Varg competitor is CR-E, first electric prototype unveiled in 2017, 2 years before Stark Future was even created, and they are yet to release specs or intended production date. So even Flux, intending to release the bike in late 2025 stands a chance to be there before them as well!

Other one would be KTM, in spite of their pre-Varg official communication I believe they're working on this.

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4/1/2024 9:49am
djr wrote:
 It's been said 100 times, but worth repeating - VIN numbers don't have to be sequential , only need to be unique to one vehicle. So...

 It's been said 100 times, but worth repeating - VIN numbers don't have to be sequential , only need to be unique to one vehicle.

So a 5000 number is not really proof that that many bikes have been made.

However, if they wanted to exaggerate the number of bikes made so far , there is probably easier ways to do this , as not many people notice or care about VIN no.s, just a few people on forums.

 

MxAddic wrote:
One thing is for sure they are making more than they can sell. They broke the internet with 18K preorders... Real question. How many dealers ordered...

One thing is for sure they are making more than they can sell. They broke the internet with 18K preorders...

Real question. How many dealers ordered their floor units based on the blockbuster BS number.

Most Stark dealers  have many many more bikes in stock from other brands.   If You see leftovers sitting on the floor a year or 2 from now. That may be cause for concern. But its a bit early to say  its a problem .  

How many Leftover  Kawasaki's are available at dealers? Or KTM's ? KTM is offering rebates on a lot of bikes. Is that a sign of trouble?  Maybe a sign of things leveling out after a giant boom the last couple years. But not a sign of the end of times.

Beagle
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4/1/2024 9:51am Edited Date/Time 4/1/2024 11:41am
RACING wrote:
I'm sure Anton is gonna looooove this little test.    

I'm sure Anton is gonna looooove this little test.

Wink

 

 

Title is clickbait-y though, Flux "early believer" price is set at 12 000 € (refundable pre-order at 50 €) so definitive price should not be far from 80 hp Varg at 14 000 €.

Stark Future was funded in 2019, don't know how much co-funders invested initially (which where the 50 k€ figure comes from Flux), but Stark got their media launch day 3 years later with riding prototypes in mid-2022 and Eicher motors only invested 50 million euros 6 months after that. So this funding was for production and likely intellectual property, development was already well advanced by that stage.

Obviously Flux and Stark are at very different stages, Stark has built their own factory, they've got millions of euros in revenue, Flux has great ideas and commitment, aiming for bike release in a little less than 2 years, I wish them great success!

More bikes, more choices to have fun, be it 2 strokes, 4 strokes or electrics.

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Beagle
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4/1/2024 9:52am
philG wrote:

They wont do a 10 lap race round a Go-Kart track, without running out of puff. 

7eleven wrote:

I can assure you I am blasting 30min moto’s right now. Loamy dirt at 50hp & 50% regen. No bullshit. 

How much battery do you eat for a 30 min run?

Beagle
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4/1/2024 10:00am Edited Date/Time 4/1/2024 10:06am
djr wrote:
 It's been said 100 times, but worth repeating - VIN numbers don't have to be sequential , only need to be unique to one vehicle. So...

 It's been said 100 times, but worth repeating - VIN numbers don't have to be sequential , only need to be unique to one vehicle.

So a 5000 number is not really proof that that many bikes have been made.

However, if they wanted to exaggerate the number of bikes made so far , there is probably easier ways to do this , as not many people notice or care about VIN no.s, just a few people on forums.

 

MxAddic wrote:
One thing is for sure they are making more than they can sell. They broke the internet with 18K preorders... Real question. How many dealers ordered...

One thing is for sure they are making more than they can sell. They broke the internet with 18K preorders...

Real question. How many dealers ordered their floor units based on the blockbuster BS number.

Most Stark dealers  have many many more bikes in stock from other brands.   If You see leftovers sitting on the floor a year or 2 from...

Most Stark dealers  have many many more bikes in stock from other brands.   If You see leftovers sitting on the floor a year or 2 from now. That may be cause for concern. But its a bit early to say  its a problem .  

How many Leftover  Kawasaki's are available at dealers? Or KTM's ? KTM is offering rebates on a lot of bikes. Is that a sign of trouble?  Maybe a sign of things leveling out after a giant boom the last couple years. But not a sign of the end of times.

Come on Sasquatch, don't bother him with facts, he's just a fortune-teller trying to exercise his art, everyone needs a hobby, right?

Hopefully he can prove me wrong and provide anything supporting his latest claim "One thing is for sure they are making more than they can sell", not holding my breath though Tongue

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7eleven
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4/1/2024 11:12am
philG wrote:

They wont do a 10 lap race round a Go-Kart track, without running out of puff. 

7eleven wrote:

I can assure you I am blasting 30min moto’s right now. Loamy dirt at 50hp & 50% regen. No bullshit. 

Beagle wrote:

How much battery do you eat for a 30 min run?

All of it. Once you’ve inside 10%, the power tapers. They do this so you are aware and you can still get back to your vehicle. 

4/1/2024 11:49am
philG wrote:

They wont do a 10 lap race round a Go-Kart track, without running out of puff. 

7eleven wrote:

I can assure you I am blasting 30min moto’s right now. Loamy dirt at 50hp & 50% regen. No bullshit. 

Beagle wrote:

How much battery do you eat for a 30 min run?

Before moving to Cali, 7eleven was a localish racer to me. And was a top NESC pro, and national level speed. A friend of mine is still mad that 7eleven turned his fastest lap on the last lap of the 30+2 second moto at Southwick.  I think he ended up passing my buddy and a guy or 2 on that last lap. And pushed my buddy (Danny Pepoon) out of the top 20.    

He  was battling Dowd, Carter,Larusso, Treadwell, ETC.  in the early to mid 2000's at local races .I remember him winning a race at local Southwick .  So his speed and fitness have been at a high level for a while. I am surprised he has not tried to do any of the big Vet races. So if he is getting 30 minutes , I would say that most people that would be buying a Varg would be able to get a similar or longer runtime. On a similar track. 

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Beagle
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4/1/2024 11:49am
7eleven wrote:

All of it. Once you’ve inside 10%, the power tapers. They do this so you are aware and you can still get back to your vehicle. 

Thanks!

That's 2 to 3 times more battery use than what they got for the race in France Supermoto championship, maybe quite different tracks?

French track was 1565 m long with 350 m dirt, very technical, lots of turns, hairpins, short straights.

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7eleven
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4/1/2024 12:38pm
7eleven wrote:

All of it. Once you’ve inside 10%, the power tapers. They do this so you are aware and you can still get back to your vehicle. 

Beagle wrote:
Thanks! That's 2 to 3 times more battery use than what they got for the race in France Supermoto championship, maybe quite different tracks? French track...

Thanks!

That's 2 to 3 times more battery use than what they got for the race in France Supermoto championship, maybe quite different tracks?

French track was 1565 m long with 350 m dirt, very technical, lots of turns, hairpins, short straights.

RVTU2483.jpeg?VersionId=mrAwHard to say without actually seeing everyone’s data and conditions. We’re all working with the collection of information at the moment. I can tell you I am 100% satisfied with my Varg because I can run long moto’s. That’s my game. 

2
Beagle
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4/1/2024 2:07pm
7eleven wrote:

All of it. Once you’ve inside 10%, the power tapers. They do this so you are aware and you can still get back to your vehicle. 

Beagle wrote:
Thanks! That's 2 to 3 times more battery use than what they got for the race in France Supermoto championship, maybe quite different tracks? French track...

Thanks!

That's 2 to 3 times more battery use than what they got for the race in France Supermoto championship, maybe quite different tracks?

French track was 1565 m long with 350 m dirt, very technical, lots of turns, hairpins, short straights.

7eleven wrote:
Hard to say without actually seeing everyone’s data and conditions. We’re all working with the collection of information at the moment. I can tell you I...

RVTU2483.jpeg?VersionId=mrAwHard to say without actually seeing everyone’s data and conditions. We’re all working with the collection of information at the moment. I can tell you I am 100% satisfied with my Varg because I can run long moto’s. That’s my game. 

Thanks, I think I got confused since I was answering a comment about go kart tracks I thought Supermoto but you're talking MX, that would explain the difference Grinning

Beagle
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4/1/2024 3:07pm

Opening round of MX Austrian championship, Florian Peissl rode his Stark to 16th (15-17) of 34 riders in MX Open (450).

These are 2 races 25 min + 2 laps in the afternoon, range seems perfectly fine for him to ride two 30 min races.

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GrapeApe
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4/1/2024 3:15pm
RACING wrote:
I'm sure Anton is gonna looooove this little test.    

I'm sure Anton is gonna looooove this little test.

Wink

 

 

Anyone else catch that video was sponsored by 24MX? lol

Doesn't seem very legit to compare lap times when that was the first time the rider had used a rear hand brake. Not to mention it was weird the way the owner was just off camera providing answers for the wrap up segment. I'm not bothered but that seemed like a paid advertisement.

Beagle
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4/1/2024 3:27pm Edited Date/Time 4/1/2024 3:28pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Anyone else catch that video was sponsored by 24MX? lol Doesn't seem very legit to compare lap times when that was the first time the rider...

Anyone else catch that video was sponsored by 24MX? lol

Doesn't seem very legit to compare lap times when that was the first time the rider had used a rear hand brake. Not to mention it was weird the way the owner was just off camera providing answers for the wrap up segment. I'm not bothered but that seemed like a paid advertisement.

Yeah I laughed when I saw 24MX Laughing

Don't think it's rigged, just that it's a fun little test, not an absolute benchmark. 

Still enough to say that the Flux looks competitive against the Varg, which is very encouraging. On a different day, different track, maybe faster, maybe not, but certainly not far, kudos to them.

philG
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4/1/2024 3:38pm
philG wrote:

They wont do a 10 lap race round a Go-Kart track, without running out of puff. 

Beagle wrote:
National Supermoto champ used 20% battery for 20 min race (set at 56 hp). And he got that back after 20 min charging break. Here's a...

National Supermoto champ used 20% battery for 20 min race (set at 56 hp). And he got that back after 20 min charging break. Here's a vid I posted here 6 months ago:

 

​​​​

Well i'd love to see that , i watched the race and saw it , and it was broadcast live on You Tube. 

Set at 58hp with no regen..as that was even worse.  

 

Beagle
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4/1/2024 10:30pm Edited Date/Time 4/1/2024 10:31pm
philG wrote:

They wont do a 10 lap race round a Go-Kart track, without running out of puff. 

Beagle wrote:
National Supermoto champ used 20% battery for 20 min race (set at 56 hp). And he got that back after 20 min charging break. Here's a...

National Supermoto champ used 20% battery for 20 min race (set at 56 hp). And he got that back after 20 min charging break. Here's a vid I posted here 6 months ago:

 

​​​​

philG wrote:
Well i'd love to see that , i watched the race and saw it , and it was broadcast live on You Tube.  Set at 58hp...

Well i'd love to see that , i watched the race and saw it , and it was broadcast live on You Tube. 

Set at 58hp with no regen..as that was even worse.  

 

They needed time to prepare the bike to this series, and for the rider to adapt (not as straightforward as transitioning to electric for MX) but range nor overheating were not issues.

They wrote "20 min session used 20% battery (15-20 min charge to get it back)". To be fair they're talking about practice sessions so maybe 20% for hypothetical 10 min race you mentioned?

As I mentioned at the time, he got hurt so could not race (we might not refer to the same event) but 20 min race would have been fine regarding the range.

https://insane-parts.com/?fc=module&module=prestablog&controller=blog&i…

4/2/2024 1:30am
8500rpm wrote:
Now, really expensive hobby for sure, but if you happen to drive an EV (not Tesla I guess) and they support V2L, you can just plug...

Now, really expensive hobby for sure, but if you happen to drive an EV (not Tesla I guess) and they support V2L, you can just plug the Varg into the car and sit in the pit during your break waiting for next moto/practice and in 30-40minutes you have plenty of more ride time. As far as I know both Kia, Ford, Nissan, Hyuindai support V2L. I did it last weekend for the first time, works flawlessly, 100% silent, no generator and doesn't draw much range from the big car battery.

V2L and e-DirtBikes combo will go far in the future.

Please stop being positive, you are upsetting the gastards.

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MxAddic
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4/2/2024 4:16am
8500rpm wrote:
Now, really expensive hobby for sure, but if you happen to drive an EV (not Tesla I guess) and they support V2L, you can just plug...

Now, really expensive hobby for sure, but if you happen to drive an EV (not Tesla I guess) and they support V2L, you can just plug the Varg into the car and sit in the pit during your break waiting for next moto/practice and in 30-40minutes you have plenty of more ride time. As far as I know both Kia, Ford, Nissan, Hyuindai support V2L. I did it last weekend for the first time, works flawlessly, 100% silent, no generator and doesn't draw much range from the big car battery.

V2L and e-DirtBikes combo will go far in the future.

ksithumper wrote:

Please stop being positive, you are upsetting the gastards.

So you are a gastard if you don’t want to buy a Tesla to charge your varg…

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vdrsnk04
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4/2/2024 4:26am
Beagle wrote:
Opening round of MX Austrian championship, Florian Peissl rode his Stark to 16th (15-17) of 34 riders in MX Open (450). These are 2 races 25...

Opening round of MX Austrian championship, Florian Peissl rode his Stark to 16th (15-17) of 34 riders in MX Open (450).

These are 2 races 25 min + 2 laps in the afternoon, range seems perfectly fine for him to ride two 30 min races.

That’s very impressive to say the least.

1
wfopete
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4/2/2024 5:03am

I think Stark is taking notes and Honda is simply amused at it all.

Beagle
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4/2/2024 6:49am
Beagle wrote:
Opening round of MX Austrian championship, Florian Peissl rode his Stark to 16th (15-17) of 34 riders in MX Open (450). These are 2 races 25...

Opening round of MX Austrian championship, Florian Peissl rode his Stark to 16th (15-17) of 34 riders in MX Open (450).

These are 2 races 25 min + 2 laps in the afternoon, range seems perfectly fine for him to ride two 30 min races.

vdrsnk04 wrote:

That’s very impressive to say the least.

To be clear, I don't think he ran both 30 min races on a single charge Silly, he must have charged the bike between the races.

But yeah, 30 min race national pro level is done 👍

MxAddic
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4/2/2024 7:20am Edited Date/Time 4/2/2024 7:50am
Beagle wrote:
Come on Sasquatch, don't bother him with facts, he's just a fortune-teller trying to exercise his art, everyone needs a hobby, right? Hopefully he can prove...

Come on Sasquatch, don't bother him with facts, he's just a fortune-teller trying to exercise his art, everyone needs a hobby, right?

Hopefully he can prove me wrong and provide anything supporting his latest claim "One thing is for sure they are making more than they can sell", not holding my breath though Tongue

I can prove you wrong again right now. You see the OEM's only make a certain model and try not to make too many in a given amount of time(change the line over). Maybe somewhere around how many the dealers are allotted.

Stark on the other hand will continue pumping them out even after the dealer channel is stuffed or shut down for the rest of the year. If they where not making more than they are selling just how am I wrong and the dealers ending up with inventory?

No need to be a fortune teller to see it, Just not a fanboy.

DTC and JIT deliver FTW! Oh, wait Stark moved the goalpost yet again...

Was at the track yesterday(no pee wee or beginners). Just guessing around 80 riders and zero vargs.

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