Sexton’s Secret Suspension Switch to KYB?

Village Idiot
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3/6/2024 10:40am
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

"This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want."

I figure they don't have any motivation to change them - not when they're still selling the bikes like hotcakes and they can convince their customersto pay for the fix themselves with their available spring kits/forks. If you're in it to make money, this is surely making more than putting "good" forks on in the first place. (need a "roll eyes" emoji here)

I mean, who would order a sirloin, get ground beef and then let the waitress convince you to pay more to get the sirloin after you got what you didn't want? Pinch

 

1
3/6/2024 11:18am

Well, seeing as no other media has covered it and the podcast bros danced around it . I think you’ve been hung out to dry ML.  Just proves these guys rely more on the bro show than actual journalism.

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PTshox
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3/6/2024 11:24am
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

"This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want." I figure they don't have any motivation to change them - not when they're still...

"This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want."

I figure they don't have any motivation to change them - not when they're still selling the bikes like hotcakes and they can convince their customersto pay for the fix themselves with their available spring kits/forks. If you're in it to make money, this is surely making more than putting "good" forks on in the first place. (need a "roll eyes" emoji here)

I mean, who would order a sirloin, get ground beef and then let the waitress convince you to pay more to get the sirloin after you got what you didn't want? Pinch

 

And... thus the opportunity that Triumph motorcycles has in front of it if they execute. And their first shot out of the gate seems to says they have the culture to do just that (note RC's comments about how they listened to the feedback and made changes). Make a 350 too (MX and X Country), some models that consumers want (dual sport 350... etc)... good components, frame, etc. 

There is an opportunity for them to give Honda, Yamaha, KTM etc fits. This could be great. Lets see what happens. 

BTW Hiding a fork change to keep a top rider happy is just lame in my opinion. 

 

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ILoveMoto
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3/6/2024 11:31am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2024 11:41am
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

When Keith McCarty was running Yamaha. Until STAR took over both 250/450 they were sucking wind and the riders were miserable. 

Time for "The Man" to finally hang up his leathers at KTM. 

I love the management of Club, Phoenix, HRC, Pro-Circuit, HEP, Triumph and STAR.

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truck
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3/6/2024 11:36am
Well, seeing as no other media has covered it and the podcast bros danced around it . I think you’ve been hung out to dry ML...

Well, seeing as no other media has covered it and the podcast bros danced around it . I think you’ve been hung out to dry ML.  Just proves these guys rely more on the bro show than actual journalism.

I didn't feel like matthes danced around it at all. Seemed to get the point across to me. 

5
3/6/2024 11:55am
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

ILoveMoto wrote:
When Keith McCarty was running Yamaha. Until STAR took over both 250/450 they were sucking wind and the riders were miserable.  Time for "The Man" to...

When Keith McCarty was running Yamaha. Until STAR took over both 250/450 they were sucking wind and the riders were miserable. 

Time for "The Man" to finally hang up his leathers at KTM. 

I love the management of Club, Phoenix, HRC, Pro-Circuit, HEP, Triumph and STAR.

What does Star and Keith McCarty have to do with KTM?

1
2
3/6/2024 11:57am
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

"This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want." I figure they don't have any motivation to change them - not when they're still...

"This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want."

I figure they don't have any motivation to change them - not when they're still selling the bikes like hotcakes and they can convince their customersto pay for the fix themselves with their available spring kits/forks. If you're in it to make money, this is surely making more than putting "good" forks on in the first place. (need a "roll eyes" emoji here)

I mean, who would order a sirloin, get ground beef and then let the waitress convince you to pay more to get the sirloin after you got what you didn't want? Pinch

 

KTM reminds me of Apple. Create a problem, sell a solution. 

But in all honesty, the air forks have been good since 2021. They are 3 lbs lighter and you can adjust them for any weight/riding level. It just takes time and commitment to set them up properly. Some people just like the feel of spring forks better..

7
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ILoveMoto
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3/6/2024 11:57am

What does Star and Keith McCarty have to do with KTM?

Keith and Roger have a lot in common.

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Village Idiot
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3/6/2024 12:00pm
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

"This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want." I figure they don't have any motivation to change them - not when they're still...

"This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want."

I figure they don't have any motivation to change them - not when they're still selling the bikes like hotcakes and they can convince their customersto pay for the fix themselves with their available spring kits/forks. If you're in it to make money, this is surely making more than putting "good" forks on in the first place. (need a "roll eyes" emoji here)

I mean, who would order a sirloin, get ground beef and then let the waitress convince you to pay more to get the sirloin after you got what you didn't want? Pinch

 

KTM reminds me of Apple. Create a problem, sell a solution.  But in all honesty, the air forks have been good since 2021. They are 3...

KTM reminds me of Apple. Create a problem, sell a solution. 

But in all honesty, the air forks have been good since 2021. They are 3 lbs lighter and you can adjust them for any weight/riding level. It just takes time and commitment to set them up properly. Some people just like the feel of spring forks better..

Definitely a personal preference thing but the off-road market made enough noise that KTM put the springs back on them this year. 

Squeaky wheel?

3
3/6/2024 12:00pm

What does Star and Keith McCarty have to do with KTM?

ILoveMoto wrote:

Keith and Roger have a lot in common.

How many championships between the two?

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AMetts
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3/6/2024 12:46pm

I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally. 

Honda, has a 1/3 share in Showa, Yamaha has a 1/3 share in KYB I believe as well. 

KTM running a direct competitors suspension tech is like running Yamaha motor parts in their engine, its just not a good look. With all of KTMs engineering and experience they cant even match the performance of an off the shelf conversion kit is the message it sends.

The real puzzler to me is how a company like KTM cant produce some prototype fork lugs and caps that keep them looking stock or at least different than a KYB kit, hell 3D print some damn covers that go over the top of the fork cap so you cant see anything. 

26
PTshox
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3/6/2024 12:51pm
AMetts wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally.  Honda, has...

I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally. 

Honda, has a 1/3 share in Showa, Yamaha has a 1/3 share in KYB I believe as well. 

KTM running a direct competitors suspension tech is like running Yamaha motor parts in their engine, its just not a good look. With all of KTMs engineering and experience they cant even match the performance of an off the shelf conversion kit is the message it sends.

The real puzzler to me is how a company like KTM cant produce some prototype fork lugs and caps that keep them looking stock or at least different than a KYB kit, hell 3D print some damn covers that go over the top of the fork cap so you cant see anything. 

You are using sound logic. That will get you fired in a politically run company culture where the best idea doesn't win. The idea from a certain position guy... that idea wins. Even if it is a horrible idea. 

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tek14
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3/6/2024 12:58pm
AMetts wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally.  Honda, has...

I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally. 

Honda, has a 1/3 share in Showa, Yamaha has a 1/3 share in KYB I believe as well. 

KTM running a direct competitors suspension tech is like running Yamaha motor parts in their engine, its just not a good look. With all of KTMs engineering and experience they cant even match the performance of an off the shelf conversion kit is the message it sends.

The real puzzler to me is how a company like KTM cant produce some prototype fork lugs and caps that keep them looking stock or at least different than a KYB kit, hell 3D print some damn covers that go over the top of the fork cap so you cant see anything. 

They could have printed covers in 10min just to cover forks if they were thinking a bit. Screenshot 2024-03-06 at 22.57.21

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racerxx276
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3/6/2024 1:03pm
AMetts wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally.  Honda, has...

I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally. 

Honda, has a 1/3 share in Showa, Yamaha has a 1/3 share in KYB I believe as well. 

KTM running a direct competitors suspension tech is like running Yamaha motor parts in their engine, its just not a good look. With all of KTMs engineering and experience they cant even match the performance of an off the shelf conversion kit is the message it sends.

The real puzzler to me is how a company like KTM cant produce some prototype fork lugs and caps that keep them looking stock or at least different than a KYB kit, hell 3D print some damn covers that go over the top of the fork cap so you cant see anything. 

They have machined their stock Cone fork caps to fit different internals. Been doing it for years...

1
1
3/6/2024 1:10pm

In my opinion all the drama and public nonsense is coming from within the team and not "corporate" KTM.

As easy as it would have been to actually hide the fact they were running KYB components, somebody messed up. My guess is at some point after those photos surfaced, someone said "dude wtf, I thought you said nobody would be able to tell from the outside?!?!"

 

4
AMetts
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3/6/2024 1:11pm
AMetts wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally.  Honda, has...

I think a lot of people are missing an important fact, WP is a 100% a KTM brand it is owned by them totally. 

Honda, has a 1/3 share in Showa, Yamaha has a 1/3 share in KYB I believe as well. 

KTM running a direct competitors suspension tech is like running Yamaha motor parts in their engine, its just not a good look. With all of KTMs engineering and experience they cant even match the performance of an off the shelf conversion kit is the message it sends.

The real puzzler to me is how a company like KTM cant produce some prototype fork lugs and caps that keep them looking stock or at least different than a KYB kit, hell 3D print some damn covers that go over the top of the fork cap so you cant see anything. 

racerxx276 wrote:

They have machined their stock Cone fork caps to fit different internals. Been doing it for years...

Exactly, seems silly not to do that in this case.

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Brent
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3/6/2024 7:30pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2024 7:31pm
In my opinion all the drama and public nonsense is coming from within the team and not "corporate" KTM. As easy as it would have been...

In my opinion all the drama and public nonsense is coming from within the team and not "corporate" KTM.

As easy as it would have been to actually hide the fact they were running KYB components, somebody messed up. My guess is at some point after those photos surfaced, someone said "dude wtf, I thought you said nobody would be able to tell from the outside?!?!"

 

What are the chances of  - 

(a) Sexton's bike having the same KYB/WP/Tech Touch fork for Birmingham;

(b) the KTM pit being off limits to certain media;

(c) The standard WP insert type spring fork being back in Chase's bike;

(d)  production air fork on the bike...

(e) WP Pro cone valve 48mm fork on the bike..

 

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Boggins
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3/6/2024 7:58pm

Championships help sell a bike, not OEM components.  If the KTM Team is that stubborn and ignorant to make the rider use components he is not comfortable with, then these Teams really are that short sighted (think Yamaha before Star.)

I owned '18 + '20 KTM FE 450, I didn't buy because it had WP air forks.  If the Factory team was running Cone Valve or KYB, this wouldn't matter to me.  However, I coughed up more $ and bought the Cone Valve spring forks as I didnt like the air forks.  However, the '18 + '20 had engine problems with less than 10 hours, and after adding FMF pipe, CV's, revalving, etc...I had $18k into each bike.  KTM did not warranty the engine problems.

So....in 2022 I purchased the YZ450 w KYB stock, and again purchased the '23 YZ450 for $11k.

KTM no mas.

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truck
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3/6/2024 8:08pm

They should show up at Birmingham with their forks covered in black and white checkered vinyl that car manufacturers cover cars with during real world testing so you can't make out the details. Have some fun with this. They of course will do the opposite of this and make sure everything looks OEM AF regardless of what's inside and get incredulous if anyone asks.

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Money
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3/6/2024 8:38pm

What does Star and Keith McCarty have to do with KTM?

ILoveMoto wrote:

Keith and Roger have a lot in common.

Keith rog and ian all the same ego problems. They know what there doing and there’s no proving them wrong. Ask the suspension guys that have left there why they leave. Bc there not allowed to be creative and try things. Ask the REP guy how it was there.

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inflammable
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3/6/2024 8:59pm

WPs engineering department should already be in possession of multiple sets of KYB forks, and trying to improve those as a WP design. If they don't they need a management shakeup. 

8
PTshox
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3/6/2024 10:25pm

What does Star and Keith McCarty have to do with KTM?

ILoveMoto wrote:

Keith and Roger have a lot in common.

Money wrote:
Keith rog and ian all the same ego problems. They know what there doing and there’s no proving them wrong. Ask the suspension guys that have...

Keith rog and ian all the same ego problems. They know what there doing and there’s no proving them wrong. Ask the suspension guys that have left there why they leave. Bc there not allowed to be creative and try things. Ask the REP guy how it was there.

I think... this guy knows something.. and people. )  

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DudeImSoRad
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3/7/2024 3:10am

What does Star and Keith McCarty have to do with KTM?

ILoveMoto wrote:

Keith and Roger have a lot in common.

Let's not forget Jimmy Perry, he called a lot of the shots in the Yamaha time before Star. 

2
3/7/2024 5:19am

Next pit bits at KTM will look like the way MTBs manufactures do it. 
 

image-20240307081952-1

3
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3/10/2024 1:41am

So ML…… what was Sexton running? All the Austrian guys seemed a little sharper this weekend, especially Bam Bam

neysbo
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3/10/2024 1:46am

So ML…… what was Sexton running? All the Austrian guys seemed a little sharper this weekend, especially Bam Bam

Sexton and AP did not look sharper.

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ILoveMoto
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3/10/2024 4:54am
neysbo wrote:

Sexton and AP did not look sharper.

Screenshot 20240309-212516 Chrome

Heat #1 

1
6
3/10/2024 5:10am
neysbo wrote:

Sexton and AP did not look sharper.

ILoveMoto wrote:
Heat #1 

Screenshot 20240309-212516 Chrome

Heat #1 

Fixed it...

image-20240310231016-1

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LungButter
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3/11/2024 10:55am

Did Barcia or any of the other Team Austria guys have them this weekend?

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