HLaw vs JCoop

Tumic
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1/2/2024 10:57am

Stop calling it a rookie season when the rider has been on the gate the year before.

J Coop rode a couple of 450 sx races last year, so that was his rookie year, just like Deegans 250 outdoor races in 2022 was his rookie season. 
 

and yes, Hunter will outperform J Coop on Hunters rookie season.

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AH387
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1/2/2024 11:20am
Tumic wrote:
Stop calling it a rookie season when the rider has been on the gate the year before. J Coop rode a couple of 450 sx races...

Stop calling it a rookie season when the rider has been on the gate the year before.

J Coop rode a couple of 450 sx races last year, so that was his rookie year, just like Deegans 250 outdoor races in 2022 was his rookie season. 
 

and yes, Hunter will outperform J Coop on Hunters rookie season.

Technically there is nothing wrong with calling this JCoop's rookie 450 year or last year Deegans rookie 250 year. In most sports you can play a certain amount of games and still be considered a rookie the next year. In NHL you can play 20 games and still be a rookie the next year. Semantics but just pointing it out for you.

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Tumic
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1/2/2024 11:37pm
AH387 wrote:
Technically there is nothing wrong with calling this JCoop's rookie 450 year or last year Deegans rookie 250 year. In most sports you can play a...

Technically there is nothing wrong with calling this JCoop's rookie 450 year or last year Deegans rookie 250 year. In most sports you can play a certain amount of games and still be considered a rookie the next year. In NHL you can play 20 games and still be a rookie the next year. Semantics but just pointing it out for you.

It’s just one country in the whole world that uses that logic. For the rest of the world, doing it for the first time is your rookie season, not the second time.

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CPR
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1/3/2024 12:06am
AH387 wrote:
Technically there is nothing wrong with calling this JCoop's rookie 450 year or last year Deegans rookie 250 year. In most sports you can play a...

Technically there is nothing wrong with calling this JCoop's rookie 450 year or last year Deegans rookie 250 year. In most sports you can play a certain amount of games and still be considered a rookie the next year. In NHL you can play 20 games and still be a rookie the next year. Semantics but just pointing it out for you.

Tumic wrote:
It’s just one country in the whole world that uses that logic. For the rest of the world, doing it for the first time is your...

It’s just one country in the whole world that uses that logic. For the rest of the world, doing it for the first time is your rookie season, not the second time.

It’s a funny concept and is often used to suit the conversation or argument at hand.
E.g. Reed did a few 450 races in 2002 before the start of 250 East, yet 2003 was his 450 ‘rookie’ season and he won A1, However you’ll often hear that no rookie has ever won A1. What they should say is at their first go.
That has a better chance than usual at happening this year.

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The Shop

Kiernan mx
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1/3/2024 2:12am

Don’t forget the star racing 250 bikes make riders seem better than they are. Over the previous few seasons the star riders going up to 450 haven’t been as good as they were on 250s. Where as I’d say Jett and probably Hunter will be better on the 450 then the 250 as their 250 bikes struggled to hang with the star bikes. So if you had JCoop and hunter rated say an 8/10 on 250s on 450s JCoop will be a 6 and Hunter a 9. 
think Christian Craig, Colt Nichols stepping up where as Chase and Jett seemed to get better on 450s. It’s because the star 250s are too good. 

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Yz450fkid
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1/3/2024 3:07am Edited Date/Time 1/3/2024 3:14am
AH387 wrote:
Technically there is nothing wrong with calling this JCoop's rookie 450 year or last year Deegans rookie 250 year. In most sports you can play a...

Technically there is nothing wrong with calling this JCoop's rookie 450 year or last year Deegans rookie 250 year. In most sports you can play a certain amount of games and still be considered a rookie the next year. In NHL you can play 20 games and still be a rookie the next year. Semantics but just pointing it out for you.

Tumic wrote:
It’s just one country in the whole world that uses that logic. For the rest of the world, doing it for the first time is your...

It’s just one country in the whole world that uses that logic. For the rest of the world, doing it for the first time is your rookie season, not the second time.

CPR wrote:
It’s a funny concept and is often used to suit the conversation or argument at hand. E.g. Reed did a few 450 races in 2002 before...

It’s a funny concept and is often used to suit the conversation or argument at hand.
E.g. Reed did a few 450 races in 2002 before the start of 250 East, yet 2003 was his 450 ‘rookie’ season and he won A1, However you’ll often hear that no rookie has ever won A1. What they should say is at their first go.
That has a better chance than usual at happening this year.

Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie.

In aus in nrl 4 games or less and the next season you are still a rookie.

Also cpr your a little off with your wording.

No1 has ever won a1 in there debut race.

Kenny won a1 in his rookie season but he had done a couple races up the previous season.

 

The weirdest rookie was Christian Craig.

He had done 67 mx races and 13 sx races on the 450 and ppl still wanted to call him a 450 sx rookie last season.

 In mx/sx there is no wording on what a rookie is.

What I believe the criteria should be is the pro/amateur rule, how u can do a few races score a few points and still be amateur eligible. Like guys like jett and deegan did. They do those races as an amateur. Then go pro the following season and start there career hence there rookie season.

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CPR
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1/3/2024 3:27am Edited Date/Time 1/3/2024 3:30am
Tumic wrote:
It’s just one country in the whole world that uses that logic. For the rest of the world, doing it for the first time is your...

It’s just one country in the whole world that uses that logic. For the rest of the world, doing it for the first time is your rookie season, not the second time.

CPR wrote:
It’s a funny concept and is often used to suit the conversation or argument at hand. E.g. Reed did a few 450 races in 2002 before...

It’s a funny concept and is often used to suit the conversation or argument at hand.
E.g. Reed did a few 450 races in 2002 before the start of 250 East, yet 2003 was his 450 ‘rookie’ season and he won A1, However you’ll often hear that no rookie has ever won A1. What they should say is at their first go.
That has a better chance than usual at happening this year.

Yz450fkid wrote:
Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie. In aus in nrl 4 games or...

Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie.

In aus in nrl 4 games or less and the next season you are still a rookie.

Also cpr your a little off with your wording.

No1 has ever won a1 in there debut race.

Kenny won a1 in his rookie season but he had done a couple races up the previous season.

 

The weirdest rookie was Christian Craig.

He had done 67 mx races and 13 sx races on the 450 and ppl still wanted to call him a 450 sx rookie last season.

 In mx/sx there is no wording on what a rookie is.

What I believe the criteria should be is the pro/amateur rule, how u can do a few races score a few points and still be amateur eligible. Like guys like jett and deegan did. They do those races as an amateur. Then go pro the following season and start there career hence there rookie season.

Agree the wording is off, but have seen it written/ spoken that way.

I believe the FIM has a rookie definition- first full season in the class, or words to that effect.

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AH387
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1/3/2024 3:48am
CPR wrote:
It’s a funny concept and is often used to suit the conversation or argument at hand. E.g. Reed did a few 450 races in 2002 before...

It’s a funny concept and is often used to suit the conversation or argument at hand.
E.g. Reed did a few 450 races in 2002 before the start of 250 East, yet 2003 was his 450 ‘rookie’ season and he won A1, However you’ll often hear that no rookie has ever won A1. What they should say is at their first go.
That has a better chance than usual at happening this year.

Yz450fkid wrote:
Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie. In aus in nrl 4 games or...

Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie.

In aus in nrl 4 games or less and the next season you are still a rookie.

Also cpr your a little off with your wording.

No1 has ever won a1 in there debut race.

Kenny won a1 in his rookie season but he had done a couple races up the previous season.

 

The weirdest rookie was Christian Craig.

He had done 67 mx races and 13 sx races on the 450 and ppl still wanted to call him a 450 sx rookie last season.

 In mx/sx there is no wording on what a rookie is.

What I believe the criteria should be is the pro/amateur rule, how u can do a few races score a few points and still be amateur eligible. Like guys like jett and deegan did. They do those races as an amateur. Then go pro the following season and start there career hence there rookie season.

CPR wrote:
Agree the wording is off, but have seen it written/ spoken that way. I believe the FIM has a rookie definition- first full season in the...

Agree the wording is off, but have seen it written/ spoken that way.

I believe the FIM has a rookie definition- first full season in the class, or words to that effect.

Yeah, I agree that doing a few races the season before is not the same as a debut, as Hunter would be doing. Usually there is some sort of cut-off or restriction that would allow someone to remain a rookie upon entering their first full season. I know those specs for NHL but not sure for SX/MX/SMX. Regardless,  I am assuming this will still be considered JCoop's rookie 450 season, and Hunter's obviously.  But for A1 it would be Hunter's debut, should he win. So that would be a bigger deal than if JCoop would win.

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c0ncEpT
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1/3/2024 6:49am

I don't think J-Coop can mentally win unless he holeshots. When he gets a mid pack start he proves time and time again that he can hardly move through a pack of average 250 riders. The 450 class won't be any nicer to him in that regard.

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Tumic
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1/3/2024 2:05pm
Yz450fkid wrote:
Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie. In aus in nrl 4 games or...

Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie.

In aus in nrl 4 games or less and the next season you are still a rookie.

Also cpr your a little off with your wording.

No1 has ever won a1 in there debut race.

Kenny won a1 in his rookie season but he had done a couple races up the previous season.

 

The weirdest rookie was Christian Craig.

He had done 67 mx races and 13 sx races on the 450 and ppl still wanted to call him a 450 sx rookie last season.

 In mx/sx there is no wording on what a rookie is.

What I believe the criteria should be is the pro/amateur rule, how u can do a few races score a few points and still be amateur eligible. Like guys like jett and deegan did. They do those races as an amateur. Then go pro the following season and start there career hence there rookie season.

In Sweden, the same second you make it to the main event in the pro championship, your amateur days are over and you are now a pro.

I don’t care if you race a championship round as an amateur, the debut is your debut and should not be counted just because your license said amateur instead of pro when you did it.

As you say, calling Craig a rookie was just plain stupid.

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AH387
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1/3/2024 6:23pm
Yz450fkid wrote:
Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie. In aus in nrl 4 games or...

Tumic in most countrys and sports allow players to have played a few games and still be a rookie.

In aus in nrl 4 games or less and the next season you are still a rookie.

Also cpr your a little off with your wording.

No1 has ever won a1 in there debut race.

Kenny won a1 in his rookie season but he had done a couple races up the previous season.

 

The weirdest rookie was Christian Craig.

He had done 67 mx races and 13 sx races on the 450 and ppl still wanted to call him a 450 sx rookie last season.

 In mx/sx there is no wording on what a rookie is.

What I believe the criteria should be is the pro/amateur rule, how u can do a few races score a few points and still be amateur eligible. Like guys like jett and deegan did. They do those races as an amateur. Then go pro the following season and start there career hence there rookie season.

Tumic wrote:
In Sweden, the same second you make it to the main event in the pro championship, your amateur days are over and you are now a...

In Sweden, the same second you make it to the main event in the pro championship, your amateur days are over and you are now a pro.

I don’t care if you race a championship round as an amateur, the debut is your debut and should not be counted just because your license said amateur instead of pro when you did it.

As you say, calling Craig a rookie was just plain stupid.

It's certainly a fair point that you make. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't really disagreeing w you. Craig is a great example. There is certainly a gray area there lol.

1/7/2024 5:04am

Hmmmm after one round we have one rider who qualified top 5, solid heat, crashed in the first turn with Roczen and Stewart, beat both of them, and came all the way back to pass tomac late and catch barcia. We have another that got schooled by Cade clason. 

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prozach
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1/8/2024 9:32pm Edited Date/Time 1/9/2024 12:31pm

Cooper looked much better after round one.  On to the next !

Hunter's poor starting ability put him in harms way in the heat, and cost him a transfer out of the lcq.  

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Richy
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1/8/2024 11:12pm
AH387 wrote:
Yeah, I agree that doing a few races the season before is not the same as a debut, as Hunter would be doing. Usually there is...

Yeah, I agree that doing a few races the season before is not the same as a debut, as Hunter would be doing. Usually there is some sort of cut-off or restriction that would allow someone to remain a rookie upon entering their first full season. I know those specs for NHL but not sure for SX/MX/SMX. Regardless,  I am assuming this will still be considered JCoop's rookie 450 season, and Hunter's obviously.  But for A1 it would be Hunter's debut, should he win. So that would be a bigger deal than if JCoop would win.

I know exactly what you mean, and what you're saying my man 👍

The wording and even concept of all this stuff is crazy haha.

I gotta disagree on one point though... The first time you hit the track under race conditions in a class - That is your debut. That's the difference between Jett and Kenny winning A1 in their first full (rookie) season. Kenny had already made his debut the season prior, though only for a couple of races.

I can understand people wanting to hold off on calling it your rookie season if you just do a Cooper and dip your toe in for a couple rounds, but your first race in AMA 450 SX surely has to be classed as your debut?

It's all splitting hairs or subjective anyway I guess 😂

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-MAVERICK-
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1/13/2024 7:12pm

Hunter: 1

JCoop: 1

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Mavetism
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1/13/2024 7:14pm Edited Date/Time 1/13/2024 7:34pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:

Hunter: 1

JCoop: 1

Dude I was just about to make a joke aswell lmao

Guess only one of them can qualify on the same weekend

1/13/2024 9:47pm
Tumic wrote:
Stop calling it a rookie season when the rider has been on the gate the year before. J Coop rode a couple of 450 sx races...

Stop calling it a rookie season when the rider has been on the gate the year before.

J Coop rode a couple of 450 sx races last year, so that was his rookie year, just like Deegans 250 outdoor races in 2022 was his rookie season. 
 

and yes, Hunter will outperform J Coop on Hunters rookie season.

So 2011 Roczen was a rookie in 250 and 450 SX. And he also won the MX2 title. Amazing 

-MAVERICK-
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1/20/2024 8:40pm

Hunter: 2

JCoop: 1

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-MAVERICK-
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1/27/2024 8:38pm

Hunter: 2 (11th in the standings with 38pts.)

JCoop: 2 (12th in the standings with 36pts.)

 

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1/28/2024 4:14am

Yup, JCoop adds “fastest 450 qualifier” to his list along with his holeshot from last week. Rode impressively in all 3 mains, while hunter has pretty much been invisible to start his 450 career 

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JJO741
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1/28/2024 12:02pm
JJO741 wrote:
Hunter has the higher ceiling and I think he will ride a 450 better than a 250. Lately, Cooper’s results seem start dependent. Cooper will be...

Hunter has the higher ceiling and I think he will ride a 450 better than a 250. Lately, Cooper’s results seem start dependent. Cooper will be a top 10/just outside top 10 guy. I can see Hunter getting some podiums. 

Welp, I’m dead wrong so far. Cooper has been impressive. 

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-MAVERICK-
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2/3/2024 2:58pm

Hunter: 3 (10th in the standings with 52pts.)

JCoop: 2 (11th in the standings with 49pts.)

Great battle between the two. 

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-MAVERICK-
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2/10/2024 8:51pm

Hunter: 4 (9th in the standings with 69pts.) 

JCoop: 2 (11th in the standings with 60pts.)

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davis224
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2/10/2024 9:03pm

I really thought Hunter would be better. Cooper has had brighter flashes.

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bens 152
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2/11/2024 5:55am

This will be fun to monitor. Hope they both keep improving steadily. 

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-MAVERICK-
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2/24/2024 7:04pm

Hunter 5: (Still 9th in the standings with 86pts.)

JCoop: 2 (Moves into 10th in the standings with 75pts.)

It was looking great for both early in the main running 4 and 5. 

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-MAVERICK-
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3/2/2024 7:09pm

Hunter: 5 (Drops a spot in the standings to 10th with 87pts.)

JCoop: 3 (Moves up a spot into 9th with 91pts.)

Bummer that Hunter went down.  

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mx 219
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3/2/2024 7:26pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Hunter: 5 (Drops a spot in the standings to 10th with 87pts.) JCoop: 3 (Moves up a spot into 9th with 91pts.) Bummer that Hunter went...

Hunter: 5 (Drops a spot in the standings to 10th with 87pts.)

JCoop: 3 (Moves up a spot into 9th with 91pts.)

Bummer that Hunter went down.  

I had him 5th for tonight because I know he's got good endurance. Was bummed when he went down.

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CPR
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3/2/2024 7:51pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Hunter: 5 (Drops a spot in the standings to 10th with 87pts.) JCoop: 3 (Moves up a spot into 9th with 91pts.) Bummer that Hunter went...

Hunter: 5 (Drops a spot in the standings to 10th with 87pts.)

JCoop: 3 (Moves up a spot into 9th with 91pts.)

Bummer that Hunter went down.  

mx 219 wrote:

I had him 5th for tonight because I know he's got good endurance. Was bummed when he went down.

He was in 5th when he crashed.

-MAVERICK-
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3/2/2024 7:56pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Hunter: 5 (Drops a spot in the standings to 10th with 87pts.) JCoop: 3 (Moves up a spot into 9th with 91pts.) Bummer that Hunter went...

Hunter: 5 (Drops a spot in the standings to 10th with 87pts.)

JCoop: 3 (Moves up a spot into 9th with 91pts.)

Bummer that Hunter went down.  

mx 219 wrote:

I had him 5th for tonight because I know he's got good endurance. Was bummed when he went down.

I'm listening to the press race conference, and they said Hunter's shoulder is bothering him, and will need to go for an MRI. Other than that he's fine. Hopefully, nothing serious and he'll just be sore for a few days.  

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