Stark Varg Racing Debut

11/12/2023 5:22pm
Zerofear66 wrote:
Could be just me, but when I read these E bike threads I think about the possibility of building an indoor track in an industrial area...

Could be just me, but when I read these E bike threads I think about the possibility of building an indoor track in an industrial area within Orange county.  Seems like it could be a huge hit. 

 

Thoughts?

There would be a market, you could also rent out Starks to ride there.

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Duckdiver
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11/12/2023 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 11/12/2023 6:51pm
Zerofear66 wrote:
Could be just me, but when I read these E bike threads I think about the possibility of building an indoor track in an industrial area...

Could be just me, but when I read these E bike threads I think about the possibility of building an indoor track in an industrial area within Orange county.  Seems like it could be a huge hit. 

 

Thoughts?

There would be a market, you could also rent out Starks to ride there.

I thought the same thing but for surrons; as could use a smaller space. was thinking using a large empty retail space or industrial warehouse. could rent and sell them there; plus fees to use the track and quick-charging stations.

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Beagle
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11/13/2023 11:46am

Thomas Do and Josh Varize are confirmed on Vargs this weekend for Paris Supercross in SX2.

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Moto Nomad
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11/13/2023 12:57pm

Hopefully saner minds will prevail and e-bikes will get their own class. Imagine any other form of motor racing doing this.

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The Shop

Beagle
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11/13/2023 2:10pm
Zerofear66 wrote:
Could be just me, but when I read these E bike threads I think about the possibility of building an indoor track in an industrial area...

Could be just me, but when I read these E bike threads I think about the possibility of building an indoor track in an industrial area within Orange county.  Seems like it could be a huge hit. 

 

Thoughts?

There would be a market, you could also rent out Starks to ride there.

Well you can take a look at electric go karts indoor tracks, they are mostly built in commercial areas, some of them used to be skating rings, others are even built right inside malls.

https://www.superchargednj.com/indoor-karting/

https://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news/indoor-go-karting-facility-coming-to…

There's a 3500 square meter indoor track just 30 min from downtown Sydney

https://entertainmentpark.com.au/indoor-electric-kart-racing/

Just gotta cover this with dirt and add some jumps Woohoo

Can you imagine a neat little track inside a mall, how many new people would be exposed to dirtbikes?

At the very least tracks could get much closer to population centers which can only be good for the sport.

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EuroGuy39
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11/14/2023 12:42am
Moto Nomad wrote:

Hopefully saner minds will prevail and e-bikes will get their own class. Imagine any other form of motor racing doing this.

I'm all in for e-bikes racing with normal bikes in these off-season races and smaller races, but I agree with you on a higher level, at least for now.

I can't understand why there already isn't a EMX-E class for example.

11/14/2023 1:13am
Moto Nomad wrote:

Hopefully saner minds will prevail and e-bikes will get their own class. Imagine any other form of motor racing doing this.

EuroGuy39 wrote:
I'm all in for e-bikes racing with normal bikes in these off-season races and smaller races, but I agree with you on a higher level, at...

I'm all in for e-bikes racing with normal bikes in these off-season races and smaller races, but I agree with you on a higher level, at least for now.

I can't understand why there already isn't a EMX-E class for example.

An EMX-E class would be a one make class, Starks racing Starks.

Why not let them race 450f's, are the other manufacturers scared?

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Beagle
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11/14/2023 1:14am Edited Date/Time 11/14/2023 2:00am
Moto Nomad wrote:

Hopefully saner minds will prevail and e-bikes will get their own class. Imagine any other form of motor racing doing this.

EuroGuy39 wrote:
I'm all in for e-bikes racing with normal bikes in these off-season races and smaller races, but I agree with you on a higher level, at...

I'm all in for e-bikes racing with normal bikes in these off-season races and smaller races, but I agree with you on a higher level, at least for now.

I can't understand why there already isn't a EMX-E class for example.

In my opinion there are just not enough Vargs out there to warrant their own class yet, probably not worth the schedule headache for a couple of riders at each event.

Come next season we'll see more and more Vargs in amateur races and national championships, then things could get better organized for 2025.

In time more manufacturers will offer full size EMX. EMX powertrain intends to commercialize their XF30 (40 hp, 4.5 kWh, 115 kg) in 2024, possibly Honda CR-E in a couple of years, so a real electric class would get more interesting than a Varg cup.

Also Stark has zero interest in supporting racing in electric class, they want to show that their bike is up to par with the best MX bikes, and so far they have already shown that it is, in national SX championships.

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11/14/2023 9:29am

An EMX-E class would be a one make class, Starks racing Starks.

Why not let them race 450f's, are the other manufacturers scared?

With a nearly consistent 15-20 HP disadvantage, the conversation of EV vs 450 is no where near a level playing field. That's why this is a joke of a question. If we change the rule limits from CC's to HP, then it would make more sense. But that's not how the moto world works.

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Beagle
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11/14/2023 11:37am

An EMX-E class would be a one make class, Starks racing Starks.

Why not let them race 450f's, are the other manufacturers scared?

HonDawg17 wrote:
With a nearly consistent 15-20 HP disadvantage, the conversation of EV vs 450 is no where near a level playing field. That's why this is a...

With a nearly consistent 15-20 HP disadvantage, the conversation of EV vs 450 is no where near a level playing field. That's why this is a joke of a question. If we change the rule limits from CC's to HP, then it would make more sense. But that's not how the moto world works.

There is no 15-20 HP disadvantage for 450 vs EV. I mean there would be, in a proper open class, and if EV means the Varg which is the only EMX making this kind of power.

However, in the races ran so far in Arenacross UK and SX tour, the Varg was restricted to 60 hp to race 450s and 48 hp to race 250s. So the Varg was likely not the most powerful bike on the grid while obviously it was the heaviest.

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11/14/2023 11:46am

An EMX-E class would be a one make class, Starks racing Starks.

Why not let them race 450f's, are the other manufacturers scared?

HonDawg17 wrote:
With a nearly consistent 15-20 HP disadvantage, the conversation of EV vs 450 is no where near a level playing field. That's why this is a...

With a nearly consistent 15-20 HP disadvantage, the conversation of EV vs 450 is no where near a level playing field. That's why this is a joke of a question. If we change the rule limits from CC's to HP, then it would make more sense. But that's not how the moto world works.

Beagle wrote:
There is no 15-20 HP disadvantage for 450 vs EV. I mean there would be, in a proper open class, and if EV means the Varg...

There is no 15-20 HP disadvantage for 450 vs EV. I mean there would be, in a proper open class, and if EV means the Varg which is the only EMX making this kind of power.

However, in the races ran so far in Arenacross UK and SX tour, the Varg was restricted to 60 hp to race 450s and 48 hp to race 250s. So the Varg was likely not the most powerful bike on the grid while obviously it was the heaviest.

Average 450 HP range: 58-62

Stark HP range: 0-80

Yes there is beyond a shred of doubt a HUGE disadvantage in peak HP. Only in the UK do they have E-Bike HP limits. We have none so far in the US. And likely will never take E-bikes serious to combine the classes. Its too big of a disparity, just between high power and no shifting advantages. They require a class of their own.

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Beagle
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11/14/2023 12:45pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
With a nearly consistent 15-20 HP disadvantage, the conversation of EV vs 450 is no where near a level playing field. That's why this is a...

With a nearly consistent 15-20 HP disadvantage, the conversation of EV vs 450 is no where near a level playing field. That's why this is a joke of a question. If we change the rule limits from CC's to HP, then it would make more sense. But that's not how the moto world works.

Beagle wrote:
There is no 15-20 HP disadvantage for 450 vs EV. I mean there would be, in a proper open class, and if EV means the Varg...

There is no 15-20 HP disadvantage for 450 vs EV. I mean there would be, in a proper open class, and if EV means the Varg which is the only EMX making this kind of power.

However, in the races ran so far in Arenacross UK and SX tour, the Varg was restricted to 60 hp to race 450s and 48 hp to race 250s. So the Varg was likely not the most powerful bike on the grid while obviously it was the heaviest.

HonDawg17 wrote:
Average 450 HP range: 58-62 Stark HP range: 0-80 Yes there is beyond a shred of doubt a HUGE disadvantage in peak HP. Only in the...

Average 450 HP range: 58-62

Stark HP range: 0-80

Yes there is beyond a shred of doubt a HUGE disadvantage in peak HP. Only in the UK do they have E-Bike HP limits. We have none so far in the US. And likely will never take E-bikes serious to combine the classes. Its too big of a disparity, just between high power and no shifting advantages. They require a class of their own.

You misspelled "the Varg has a cap on hp in all the championships where it's competing against ICE".

That is France, UK, and for next year Australia. Just not sure about Finland where it raced last weekend.

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11/14/2023 1:11pm
Beagle wrote:
You misspelled "the Varg has a cap on hp in all the championships where it's competing against ICE". That is France, UK, and for next year...

You misspelled "the Varg has a cap on hp in all the championships where it's competing against ICE".

That is France, UK, and for next year Australia. Just not sure about Finland where it raced last weekend.

I think you misspelled "Nestle Toll House" for your location..

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Silas444
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11/14/2023 3:08pm

An EMX-E class would be a one make class, Starks racing Starks.

Why not let them race 450f's, are the other manufacturers scared?

Are they scared? Well, it's either that, or they want to ban it because they're afraid that if they allow it to race, everyone will see how inferior it is compared to their ICE offerings and they'll be flooded with unexpected orders they just aren't prepared for. Frankly, I'm not sure that passes the smell test, even for sammich boy, snake dude, yesterday man, and the noise worshippers.

I know I shouldn't, but damn I find all this unhinged panic/hateful rage versus simple joy/great expectations fun to watch. What a sublime guilty pleasure it has become.

 

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soggy
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11/14/2023 6:14pm
Beagle wrote:
You misspelled "the Varg has a cap on hp in all the championships where it's competing against ICE". That is France, UK, and for next year...

You misspelled "the Varg has a cap on hp in all the championships where it's competing against ICE".

That is France, UK, and for next year Australia. Just not sure about Finland where it raced last weekend.

HonDawg17 wrote:

I think you misspelled "Nestle Toll House" for your location..

Just admit when your wrong

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JM485
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11/16/2023 12:45pm
Silas444 wrote:
Are they scared? Well, it's either that, or they want to ban it because they're afraid that if they allow it to race, everyone will see...

Are they scared? Well, it's either that, or they want to ban it because they're afraid that if they allow it to race, everyone will see how inferior it is compared to their ICE offerings and they'll be flooded with unexpected orders they just aren't prepared for. Frankly, I'm not sure that passes the smell test, even for sammich boy, snake dude, yesterday man, and the noise worshippers.

I know I shouldn't, but damn I find all this unhinged panic/hateful rage versus simple joy/great expectations fun to watch. What a sublime guilty pleasure it has become.

 

I love how we went from "That's not real and it will never be a race bike" to "That's not fair my gas bike can't compete with that" in a matter of months Laughing

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11/16/2023 3:45pm
Silas444 wrote:
Are they scared? Well, it's either that, or they want to ban it because they're afraid that if they allow it to race, everyone will see...

Are they scared? Well, it's either that, or they want to ban it because they're afraid that if they allow it to race, everyone will see how inferior it is compared to their ICE offerings and they'll be flooded with unexpected orders they just aren't prepared for. Frankly, I'm not sure that passes the smell test, even for sammich boy, snake dude, yesterday man, and the noise worshippers.

I know I shouldn't, but damn I find all this unhinged panic/hateful rage versus simple joy/great expectations fun to watch. What a sublime guilty pleasure it has become.

 

JM485 wrote:
I love how we went from "That's not real and it will never be a race bike" to "That's not fair my gas bike can't compete...

I love how we went from "That's not real and it will never be a race bike" to "That's not fair my gas bike can't compete with that" in a matter of months Laughing

Motocross is still 90% rider!

If you ride a gas bike you have an excuse for being slow!

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Motofinne
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11/16/2023 10:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/16/2023 11:08pm

The shifting argument for keeping electric bikes out from the main classes are protectionist at best.

Nothing restricts the ICE bikes from having an automatic transmission, it's just a question of engineering, money and willingness to innovate from the manufacturers.

I attended a Honda road bike demoday this summer and rode the Honda Rebel 1100 Touring DCT. It had the automatic dual clutch transmission and there were no shifting involved. So the biggest manufacturer out of them all already have some kind of automatic technology. And before someone asks, no this DCT system is not like a Rekluse. It's an actual automatic transmission.

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11/16/2023 11:56pm
Motofinne wrote:
The shifting argument for keeping electric bikes out from the main classes are protectionist at best. Nothing restricts the ICE bikes from having an automatic transmission...

The shifting argument for keeping electric bikes out from the main classes are protectionist at best.

Nothing restricts the ICE bikes from having an automatic transmission, it's just a question of engineering, money and willingness to innovate from the manufacturers.

I attended a Honda road bike demoday this summer and rode the Honda Rebel 1100 Touring DCT. It had the automatic dual clutch transmission and there were no shifting involved. So the biggest manufacturer out of them all already have some kind of automatic technology. And before someone asks, no this DCT system is not like a Rekluse. It's an actual automatic transmission.

Honda had an automatic transmission on their works bike back in 1991

image-20231117185358-1

image-20231117185417-2

image-20231117185442-3

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Beagle
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11/18/2023 6:44am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2023 6:46am

Paris Supercross SX2 qualifying.

Shimoda is the clear favorite with about 1s lead over Vialle, Owen and Bourdon (the three lumped in under 1 tenth), then first regular of SX tour, Desprey is 5th, 1 tenth behind them.

On the Varg Do is 9th and Varize 11th, 3s from Shimoda.

Live timing is here: https://www.ffmoto.org/live/paris-la-defense-arena-92-amc-de-france-1

Results here https://www.ffmoto.org/resultats/nationaux/details/motocross/championna…

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Beagle
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11/18/2023 7:17am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2023 7:24am

Do can't seem to podium in SX tour, that's another 4th for him, Josh Varize got 7th.

Don't know what happened but Maxime Desprey perfect season is gone, on lap 2 he went from 2nd to 10th and he finished 6th, 25s from winner Brian Hsu.

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tek14
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11/19/2023 12:45am

Why Stark bikes didnt race finals in sx2 at Paris?

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Beagle
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11/19/2023 2:22am

Copied here my answer from Paris SX main thread:

No official word, it was written as "international sx2 + 8 invited riders", I think they took the top8 from SX tour (french championship) Saturday race without counting the Starks appearing as wildcards.

Initially Do was stated to participate in SX tour except Paris Supercross, again my guess is that the organizers finally agreed for Stark participation on the condition it would not be part of the international event.

I think it's also why the Stark is oddly competing in SX2, for this experiment in 2023 SX tour, the organizers and FFM wanted to test the waters in low stakes category, thus SX2 instead of SX1. I think Stark would have been happy to be included in SX1.

We can still compare laptimes, Do and Varize were never gonna beat Shimoda (no disrespect) but would have been cool to see them ride more.

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11/19/2023 4:05am

I can’t believe they would stop innovation because it might upset people……..

image-20231119060229-1
 

 

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Beagle
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11/19/2023 4:15am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2023 4:16am

This morning Do on the Varg qualified 1.5 s from Owen and Shimoda, Varize was 2.2 s from pole.

In SX tour Sunday finale Do got 8th place (worst finish of the season?), Varize got 5th.

Situation back to normal with a win for Desprey.

I know that's Varize 1st competition on the Varg so he's probably not at gus best yet but what could we reasonably expect from him on an ICE for laptimes against Shimoda?

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Sandusky26
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11/19/2023 4:19am
Silas444 wrote:
Are they scared? Well, it's either that, or they want to ban it because they're afraid that if they allow it to race, everyone will see...

Are they scared? Well, it's either that, or they want to ban it because they're afraid that if they allow it to race, everyone will see how inferior it is compared to their ICE offerings and they'll be flooded with unexpected orders they just aren't prepared for. Frankly, I'm not sure that passes the smell test, even for sammich boy, snake dude, yesterday man, and the noise worshippers.

I know I shouldn't, but damn I find all this unhinged panic/hateful rage versus simple joy/great expectations fun to watch. What a sublime guilty pleasure it has become.

 

JM485 wrote:
I love how we went from "That's not real and it will never be a race bike" to "That's not fair my gas bike can't compete...

I love how we went from "That's not real and it will never be a race bike" to "That's not fair my gas bike can't compete with that" in a matter of months Laughing

Matter of years.

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Beagle
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11/19/2023 3:24pm

After Do, Zaragoza and Varize, another experienced rider joins the electric fun: Justin Bogle will race for Stark.

Just not sure where yet, probably somewhere in Europe (while waiting for a decision from the AMA).

https://mxnews-online.com/justin-bogle-auf-stark-varg/

 

 

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11/19/2023 3:42pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2023 4:16pm
Beagle wrote:
After Do, Zaragoza and Varize, another experienced rider joins the electric fun: Justin Bogle will race for Stark. Just not sure where yet, probably somewhere in...

After Do, Zaragoza and Varize, another experienced rider joins the electric fun: Justin Bogle will race for Stark.

Just not sure where yet, probably somewhere in Europe (while waiting for a decision from the AMA).

https://mxnews-online.com/justin-bogle-auf-stark-varg/

 

 

Bogle on a shiftless, but heavy, torque/power monster? He just riding for them leg swag holeshots.

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11/19/2023 4:40pm

Stark is setting up a factory race team, jobs advertised on linkedin...

image-20231120113939-1

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