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this is the unfortunate truth; so many scumbag land swaps, public land sell-offs, etc. We're going through that right now in St. George with the Northern Corridor, as well as Long Valley (north end of the Warner Valley riding area). Rich assholes buy up land near the proposed corridor, then come up with some insane rationale for building it, the land goes up 1000% in value, and they get richer by selling off to commercial developers, etc. The uniparty is alive and well, and voting (R) is no guarantee that the politicos have our interests in mind.
"Basically, I feel that the Americans who live next to, work next to, and in many cases the survival of their entire communities are dependent on, federal land...should have the MOST say in how its managed. "
Sounds to me like you favor local governance. But your further comments sound like you think that those local interests will be better served by a bureaucratic panel of Washington, D.C. overlords than by your nearby local, county and state public servants. Who are also your neighbors.
Also, if you feel so passionately about this, the most available solution is to run for office, and win, so you can put your imprint on how it's handled. Helluva a lot easier to accomplish that at the local, county and state levels than in the D.C. cesspool. Once in office, you can call the shots and insure that the corruption that you believe is ongoing (amongst your neighbors) is reined in.
Is the AMA helping with this at all?
Highly unlikely. And unless I've just missed everything talking about it....I don't think any of the aftermarket companies or OEMs are really doing much to fight this fight either.
Kinda sad really.
It'd be cool if they took like 10% of the racing budget and spent it helping fight the good fight to keep riding areas open for the people who pay their bills.
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I wonder if corporate companies such as Jeep and others jump in and assist the fight either financially or politically? Hope Utah can win this! Cheers
In a perfect world, local controll does do the will of the people that live next door. However, many people have seen that once the land is turned over to the state that's not exactly what happens. Once long-term leases are signed or the land is sold It's almost impossible to get that land back. I've said it on here before,it's's a lot easier to change the way public land is used than to turn private land in the public land.
If the local citizenry is unwilling to perform public service, that will never change. The great promise of our system of government is that it can be peacefully replaced by the citizenry. I think too many people have lost a grasp of that fundamental prospect. So they don't want to get involved. But the very same people tend to be very active complainers about a so-called 'rigged system' from their keyboards.
The apparatus is in place to force a sea change. Be thankful for that. But I can guarantee you that handing the reins to some D.C. bureaucracy will all but insure that local citizens' interests will be all but ignored. Like they are now by the BLM. There's a reason a lot of people call Washington a cesspool. The label fits. But it's never going to change without someone deciding to get their hands dirty.
Public land means the whole public. Not just the ones you agree with.
100%. Think legal and local. The federal government is long gone. Focus on your community.
Way to completely miss the point. State control of land inevitably leads to more private (read: corporations) ownership of land, a trend that increases in states with Republican Governors and Legislatures. They see a way to get some revenue and reduce government control of land, small gubmint and all that, so they sell it. State ownership is not the answer.
Again, see what happened in Nevada. Or don't and just ignorantly spout off. What Titan is proposing is a good long-term solution. Not perfect, but good
I should also say that in states with Democrat Governors and Legislatures, lands are more likely to be cutoff from motorized vehicles for conservation reasons, I think we all know this. So both suck
I think it might be you that is missing the point. The only way that happens is if good folks stand by and do nothing. These are public institutions. You, or anyone, can run, get elected, and then serve the interests of your electorate. Presumably that would include shutting down the sweetheart deals that result in the thing that you claim is inevitable. It's only inevitable as long as good people stand on the sidelines and enable it. And if you think that ceding local authority to D.C. leads to less private takeover, I have some beachfront land in Omaha I want to offer you. Comes with surfboards.
Exactly. Stop crying and get involved. Go to your local meetings. You will find out, like have, that you will be the youngest person there by decades. Start small, run for school board, city council, county commissioner etc. Be involved in your community, it will make a difference.
Quite frankly, good riddance. So long jeep nerds.
What a dick comment....
Remember that when 2-wheels are banned and some POS says "So long dirt bikers".
Feel better, boy ??
Is this going to get you the attention you so desperately crave ???
It would appear that some have failed to carefully read the title of the thread.
"Utah fighting federal attempt..."
In this instance the STATE knows better how to handle its land.
That's how a lot of the world will feel when dirtbikes are given the boot...
Off-road enthusiasts are in this thing together, you need the numbers, jeeps, quads, sxs wankers, bikers, mountain bikers, etc. Numbers matter.
It would appear you are ignoring the other facts being presented to continue to follow the narrative you like.
The Feds give control of that chunk of land to Utah and there is a VERY HIGH chance it ends up in private hands with no access at all for us regular folk.
History doesn’t lie. Utah used to have 7.4 million acres of state land, they’ve sold off over half of that.
What I'm saying is I want the Americans who live closest to the land to have the most say in how the land is managed...I DON'T want them to have complete control over the land.
Keep the land as federal land...put some restrictions in place so the POTUS, or an un-elected bureaucrat, can't force a management plan or designation change down the throats of the Americans who will be most significantly affected by how the land is managed.
It's called a compromise.
And trust me, I've been VERY involved in this battle...I've given more time, and effort to this than most people have. Why have I stepped back? Because OHV users just don't care...they'll drop $12K on a dirt bike (or $30K on a SXS), $90K on a 5thwheel toy hauler, $80K on a truck, but won't donate $50/year, or take the time to write a semi-coherent email...the industry just doesn't care...I was constantly shut down by the industry when trying to rally some support (either a platform to raise awareness, or money) to fight these closures...for example, LOCAL dealers I spoke with had no interest in trying to educate their customers on proper public land use (by simply giving them some information pamphlets with the purchase, and going over some very basic public land etiquette), or in donating a Blue Ribbon Coalition membership with every machine purchased, or a plethora of things we tried...and they just don't care. You'd think between the Big 5, they'd be able to summon enough money to fund a decent lobbyist or two to protect their interests in DC...You'd think they'd want to use their platform to raise awareness among their customers about ways to keep public land open...but NOPE...nothing!
So, OHV users will lose this battle...if...they don't start caring. And it's almost too late.
Pit Row
Here is what we lost (part of it) and what Utah is fighting for...this isn't my video just found it online today...it's worth pointing out, that the roads hes on at the beginning, not to many years ago, used to be single track (thank you sxs's!)
only if people are pushing to be able to ride with no helmets on the Moab trails
Preach it brother.....
Blue Ribbon Coalition is in this fight but they sure don't do a very good job of marketing or making it "cool"....they should take note of how non-profits in other sectors have gained social status and popularity.
Here is their list of supporters.....don't see many industry heavy hitters on here....
https://www.sharetrails.org/member-organizations-businesses/
where is FMF, Renthal, Pro Circuit, Dunlop, Wiseco, 100%, Hinson, Rekluse, Works Connection etc. etc. etc. don't these companies realize that as we lose riding areas they lose business?
So true...I would venture to guess that most offroad riders don't even know what the BRC is.
I'm seeing a worrying trend in mtb as well; NICA has done a great job of growing high school mtb racing...to the point where we had 7300 kids in Utah racing this year. I love seeing kids off their phones and out riding, but I know from discussions with people up along the Wasatch front that it has created this monster where trailheads are getting clogged up, rude kids piss off other users, etc.
So it's not just dirt bikes vs. SXS and tree huggers. It's land use in general. My theory on why Euro MX fans are so absolutely nuts at races (think MXdN or the Erzberg Rodeo) is partially because they have so few places to ride/recreate that when the opportunity arises they go completely off the hook....
My son rides with NICA (and I'm a ride leader)...it is an issue on the single track trails (at Corner Canyon especially)...when you've got the Corner Canyon team with almost 300 riders, Skyridge team with over 200 riders, Lone Peak team with over 200 riders, Lehi team with just under 200 riders...all on the trail systems at the same time it gets crowded and I can see it frustrates other users.
What I see differently in the MTB world, is that they are more self aware, and they-by and large-care far more about protecting access (and almost put it as a priority over having fun)...the I the exact opposite in the OHV world.
For example, the teams work together to try and not have practices at the same time in the same locations...because they are aware-and care-about causing problems with other trail users. Some teams practice in the morning, some practice in the evenings...and they'll spread the morning/evening teams between Eagle Mountain system, Valle Vista trail System, Corner Canyon, and Butterfield Canyon...to try and not have more than one team on any trail system at once. And then the teams will rotate so they can all ride the various trail systems.
Anyway...maybe a bad example...but its an entirely different vibe from the mtb community when it comes to protecting trail access than in the OHV community.
Seems like protecting public land use access is a huge deal for every user group except OHV.
Pretty much...there is a very small, but very valiant, group of OHV users which are doing the work to keep public lands open...but without more participation, its a losing battle.
I know, I know..."I live on the East coast, why do I care if trails in the West get closed?"...or..."I only ride moto, why should I care if off road trails get closed, doesn't affect me at all." Here's the thing with that attitude...if riding areas (tracks, or trails) continue to get shut down (because of noise, or greenies) it limits the number of potential future participants in your sport...the further one has to drive to get to a ride area (private track, or public land) the less likely they are to get into the sport...that means less moto riders, less east coast riders...less revenue to the manufactures, the dealers, the aftermarket companies, the gear companies...less money they have for R&D, less money they have to fund racing...EVERYONE is affected as we lose riding areas. So everyone SHOULD care...but few actually do.
Honestly, I think it proves some of the stereotypes about OHV users. The harder sports attract a different type of person than easier sports....the type of people that are hard working, determined, respectful, self disciplined, etc are more likely to do harder sports...I think that is why the cross country mtb community is more respectful than the moto community. It's just harder, and so you get a different type of people doing it and you get MORE disrespectful folks in moto than mountain biking...it's also why the SXS community is so much different than the moto community...it's so easy to hop in a SXS and go blast across the desert, you end up with MORE lazy, entitled, disrespectful idiots tearing up the trails and desert in SXS than on dirt bikes...and more people on dirt bikes than mountain bikes. (I even see this within the mtb community...the "down hill" only crowd is different than the cross country crowd...by and large the downhill only crowd is younger, more about image, and more disrespectful than the xc crowd, because its so much easier). Just a theory...there are great people in all genres...but the easier the activity, on average the lower quality of individual is going to participate in it.
Well said!
Sadly this is very true. I ride MTB and Moto, the state of parking/staging areas at the trails for each sport tells the whole story. Most OHV staging areas in my area have trash, people parking in bushes, disrespectful behavior, occasional fights, etc. MTB areas are clean and respectful. As Moto guys, we are our own worst enemy and need to do a better job of self-policing. Your comment about the relative difficulty of the two sports is also accurate
Most of our mtb trailhead parking areas have huge ruts from SXS idiots doing donuts in the gravel...it's out of control....
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