Unphiltereds take on 'Let Broc by'

hopgrower
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'It's no big deal' is the sum  of what Phil has to say on the topic.  A bit interesting from a hardcore guy like him. 

 I have been pondering this from a Betting standpoint.   Big sports have sports betting.  I think Matthes said you could find a line on dirtbike racing in Vegas, but it is not common.  If there is legal betting on racing, then I think any attempt to 'fix' an outcome is illegal. at least in Nevada.  I am not sure what the argument would be if you are somehow helping yourself with points.  I am also not sure what the argument would be regarding helping a teammate.  In F1 you have the constructors championship along with the driver championship.  So, I think it is allowed.  It is interesting, but I am not a fan in general of letting someone by.

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yota
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10/21/2023 1:14pm

like the teams and riders care how bookies and gamblers fare. 

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10/21/2023 1:32pm
yota wrote:

like the teams and riders care how bookies and gamblers fare. 

They will when the bookies send someone to Nancy Kerrigan them. 

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devotid
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10/21/2023 11:31pm
yota wrote:

like the teams and riders care how bookies and gamblers fare. 

SEE ARE125 wrote:

They will when the bookies send someone to Nancy Kerrigan them. 

Turn off the TV bud...

3
10/23/2023 8:17am

Not sure about the betting aspect....but I did think it was a weird take by Phil saying no big deal. As a racer in that very race I would never think thats no big deal!

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kxking
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10/23/2023 11:00am
hopgrower wrote:
'It's no big deal' is the sum  of what Phil has to say on the topic.  A bit interesting from a hardcore guy like him.   I...

'It's no big deal' is the sum  of what Phil has to say on the topic.  A bit interesting from a hardcore guy like him. 

 I have been pondering this from a Betting standpoint.   Big sports have sports betting.  I think Matthes said you could find a line on dirtbike racing in Vegas, but it is not common.  If there is legal betting on racing, then I think any attempt to 'fix' an outcome is illegal. at least in Nevada.  I am not sure what the argument would be if you are somehow helping yourself with points.  I am also not sure what the argument would be regarding helping a teammate.  In F1 you have the constructors championship along with the driver championship.  So, I think it is allowed.  It is interesting, but I am not a fan in general of letting someone by.

Same as MotoGP, for the riders championship it happens all the time. JL99 held up AD07 for 3 laps despite his team telling him to move over, although JL99 eventually crashed out. 

10/23/2023 12:12pm

There are only a handful of pro riders at the tip of the spear who are in good enough shape, and talented enough, to put in early sprint laps and then back down it down a bit for a full race. Those riders generally have enough left in the tank to ramp it back up mid/late race if duty calls.

AMA rule 1.5.9, titled "Performance Obligation", mandates riders to give "their utmost effort and compete to the best of their capability, striving to secure the highest achievable finishing position in the Event." Cynically interpreted, that's the AMA saying -- dance monkeys, we're calling the tune and if you check up even a little bit in one of the gnarliest sports in existence, we could give you a penalty."

Filthy Phil is obviously a prime candidate to call BS on it, and he's far from alone in that opinion. Whatever your personal interpretation of the rule is, look at Phil declining to clean some of the rhythm sections is SX this past season. Like most of the 450 riders who didn't jump the quad Jett and a few others did at the SMX finale, the capability was there but the risk/reward didn't add up.  

The fallout from Jett's wave-bye probably solidified things going forward, and guys will just slow down and make it less obvious. Musquin's "cross-rut" for Dungey in 2017 was arguably too obvious, Savagty's wave at the Monster Cup was obviously too obvious, but Tomac's bunching at the 2017 SX finale apparently fooled none other than former champ Jeff Emig. Not saying I like any of it, but if every rider on a pro gate fully gave their utmost effort for the highest achievable result you'd need to have about 20 ambulances ready to go.

Of course, keeping it on two wheels is the major factor with questions like these, and at the end of the day a lot of these issues boil down to semantics. The off-season sucks, I'd have never typed this out if there were races to watch. 

CPR
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10/23/2023 1:17pm

The guy who asked Philthy that question proposed that JLaw let Reed bye at 09 Daytona 😂

1
10/23/2023 6:51pm
supercuss wrote:
There are only a handful of pro riders at the tip of the spear who are in good enough shape, and talented enough, to put in...

There are only a handful of pro riders at the tip of the spear who are in good enough shape, and talented enough, to put in early sprint laps and then back down it down a bit for a full race. Those riders generally have enough left in the tank to ramp it back up mid/late race if duty calls.

AMA rule 1.5.9, titled "Performance Obligation", mandates riders to give "their utmost effort and compete to the best of their capability, striving to secure the highest achievable finishing position in the Event." Cynically interpreted, that's the AMA saying -- dance monkeys, we're calling the tune and if you check up even a little bit in one of the gnarliest sports in existence, we could give you a penalty."

Filthy Phil is obviously a prime candidate to call BS on it, and he's far from alone in that opinion. Whatever your personal interpretation of the rule is, look at Phil declining to clean some of the rhythm sections is SX this past season. Like most of the 450 riders who didn't jump the quad Jett and a few others did at the SMX finale, the capability was there but the risk/reward didn't add up.  

The fallout from Jett's wave-bye probably solidified things going forward, and guys will just slow down and make it less obvious. Musquin's "cross-rut" for Dungey in 2017 was arguably too obvious, Savagty's wave at the Monster Cup was obviously too obvious, but Tomac's bunching at the 2017 SX finale apparently fooled none other than former champ Jeff Emig. Not saying I like any of it, but if every rider on a pro gate fully gave their utmost effort for the highest achievable result you'd need to have about 20 ambulances ready to go.

Of course, keeping it on two wheels is the major factor with questions like these, and at the end of the day a lot of these issues boil down to semantics. The off-season sucks, I'd have never typed this out if there were races to watch. 

"AMA rule 1.5.9, titled "Performance Obligation", mandates riders to give "their utmost effort and compete to the best of their capability, striving to secure the highest achievable finishing position in the Event.""

I would argue that "the event" was a 3 race championship. They certainly didn't give out a championship ring for each "race". I'd argue that the individual races are no more important to the championship than a heat race is to the main event of a supercross race. Shit, it's even in the name SMX World Championship. Remember when Ken Roczen just quit his heat race to save himself for the LCQ? While some might disagree, it's a very valid defense from getting penalized.

Village Idiot
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10/24/2023 7:42pm
hopgrower wrote:
'It's no big deal' is the sum  of what Phil has to say on the topic.  A bit interesting from a hardcore guy like him.   I...

'It's no big deal' is the sum  of what Phil has to say on the topic.  A bit interesting from a hardcore guy like him. 

 I have been pondering this from a Betting standpoint.   Big sports have sports betting.  I think Matthes said you could find a line on dirtbike racing in Vegas, but it is not common.  If there is legal betting on racing, then I think any attempt to 'fix' an outcome is illegal. at least in Nevada.  I am not sure what the argument would be if you are somehow helping yourself with points.  I am also not sure what the argument would be regarding helping a teammate.  In F1 you have the constructors championship along with the driver championship.  So, I think it is allowed.  It is interesting, but I am not a fan in general of letting someone by.

Keith would chime in but he's currently getting an earful from Falcon -

Let Brock Bye

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MX Guy
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10/24/2023 8:08pm

Phil and Jett are friends. Just an FYI. 

captmoto
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10/25/2023 6:37am
Not sure about the betting aspect....but I did think it was a weird take by Phil saying no big deal. As a racer in that very...

Not sure about the betting aspect....but I did think it was a weird take by Phil saying no big deal. As a racer in that very race I would never think thats no big deal!

Was Phil even alive when that went down?

NSP139
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10/25/2023 7:34am
MX Guy wrote:

Phil and Jett are friends. Just an FYI. 

This^

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