Euro guys dreaming about USA

vrossi
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groesbeek NL
10/13/2023 1:12am
RG437 wrote:
15-20 riders is not a motocross race and not a spectacle. How many riders get lapped depends on a number of factors, conditions, length of lap...

15-20 riders is not a motocross race and not a spectacle. How many riders get lapped depends on a number of factors, conditions, length of lap etc. in Trentino there were 40 riders and 26 of them didn’t get lapped in both moto’s. Being lapped by Jeffrey Herlings doesn’t mean that you don’t deserve to be out there. You try going to Matterley and watching a race with 20 riders in it, it’s boring as hell and if that’s the future of the sport I want absolutely no part in it. I genuinely won’t watch any GP on TV that has less than 25 riders in it 

I 🫡 you best comment in this section

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1
rym
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10/13/2023 1:43am
aees wrote:
This having 40 on the gate is ridiculous. 25 of them are just in the way getting lapped. It's like everyone should have a trophy style...

This having 40 on the gate is ridiculous. 25 of them are just in the way getting lapped. It's like everyone should have a trophy style no matter how relevant you are.

Looking at racing with 15-20, you notice it before gate dropp, and first 3 sec of the race from the gate drops. Then it is just a blessing not to have lappers getting in the way of good racing. 

Live timing can't display 40, so 20 make it easier there also and it will raise the status of getting into the main.

Drop down to 20, and make a b-final with 40 instead taking more from the qualification.

NVA57 wrote:
Well the thing is… they can easily put 10 competitive EMX250 guys + a couple guys that only race nationally and easily fill a 40 man...

Well the thing is… they can easily put 10 competitive EMX250 guys + a couple guys that only race nationally and easily fill a 40 man gate in MX2 full of competitive guys. There’s also a ton of guys that aged out of MX2 that could very well fill the MXGP gate if the teams/funding was there.

It’s not like the talent is not out there. That’s kinda the problem. Tons of capable guys that aren’t on the gate because of lack of funding. Thus resulting in 20 man gates. 

aees wrote:
I'm sorry but no, there is in the end no more than 15 riders not being lapped. If you are getting lapped constantly, you are not...

I'm sorry but no, there is in the end no more than 15 riders not being lapped.

If you are getting lapped constantly, you are not competitive 

We've had a bunch of mx2 GPs with p 17-18-19 not being lapped, and in Loket top 22-23 was not lapped. So more than 15 is bs to start with.

And if you take the fastest guys from EMX250 i think you can have a gate of 40 riders where every rider has the speed to not be lapped if they have a decent start. 

 

rym
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10/13/2023 1:47am

As for guys having interest in going US, imo that makes a lot of sense. Reality is that most talents and good riders are fighting to get a spot in mx2 or keep it in mxgp. Guys like Bogers are quoted in interviews with if i'm unlucky i have to find a new job next year and guys like vd Moosdijk and Horgmo could just as easily have ended up without a ride for next year. You see guys like Boegh Damm with 2 years of eligibility in MX2 quitting the gps because he cant get a decent ride. 

3
10/13/2023 2:17am

Full gates are primo, it doesn't matter that 3/4 get lapped, there are races within the race. Racers get faster racing other racers. Look at some privateers in the top 10 this year, it was great racing.

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The Shop

WCRider
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10/13/2023 3:00am

I'm so hungry for a cheeseburger yo

2
aees
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10/13/2023 3:01am
NVA57 wrote:
Well the thing is… they can easily put 10 competitive EMX250 guys + a couple guys that only race nationally and easily fill a 40 man...

Well the thing is… they can easily put 10 competitive EMX250 guys + a couple guys that only race nationally and easily fill a 40 man gate in MX2 full of competitive guys. There’s also a ton of guys that aged out of MX2 that could very well fill the MXGP gate if the teams/funding was there.

It’s not like the talent is not out there. That’s kinda the problem. Tons of capable guys that aren’t on the gate because of lack of funding. Thus resulting in 20 man gates. 

aees wrote:
I'm sorry but no, there is in the end no more than 15 riders not being lapped. If you are getting lapped constantly, you are not...

I'm sorry but no, there is in the end no more than 15 riders not being lapped.

If you are getting lapped constantly, you are not competitive 

RG437 wrote:
15-20 riders is not a motocross race and not a spectacle. How many riders get lapped depends on a number of factors, conditions, length of lap...

15-20 riders is not a motocross race and not a spectacle. How many riders get lapped depends on a number of factors, conditions, length of lap etc. in Trentino there were 40 riders and 26 of them didn’t get lapped in both moto’s. Being lapped by Jeffrey Herlings doesn’t mean that you don’t deserve to be out there. You try going to Matterley and watching a race with 20 riders in it, it’s boring as hell and if that’s the future of the sport I want absolutely no part in it. I genuinely won’t watch any GP on TV that has less than 25 riders in it 

Just an example. How much do you add to the race being outside top 15 constantly? Not much. Zero screen time.

If you want gatefillers, we can line up whoever, after the gate drops barely 8-12 gets screen time . How does it then matter?

No one in here can answer how riders outside top 10 did anyway directly after a race. 

If you black flagged 20 riders after lap 1, no one would notice.

It's BS it adds to the race having 40 vs 20. It's just a mental feeling and looking good having full gate, pre gate drop. But does it matter? Nope.

You want to see top 10 racing, with some mix of a wildcard getting in the mix. This is why WSX struggle. If full gate was a key requirement, it would be a success. But no, it's the quality of riders, not the quantity that matters.

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11
RG437
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Leicester GB
10/13/2023 3:50am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2023 3:52am
aees wrote:
I'm sorry but no, there is in the end no more than 15 riders not being lapped. If you are getting lapped constantly, you are not...

I'm sorry but no, there is in the end no more than 15 riders not being lapped.

If you are getting lapped constantly, you are not competitive 

RG437 wrote:
15-20 riders is not a motocross race and not a spectacle. How many riders get lapped depends on a number of factors, conditions, length of lap...

15-20 riders is not a motocross race and not a spectacle. How many riders get lapped depends on a number of factors, conditions, length of lap etc. in Trentino there were 40 riders and 26 of them didn’t get lapped in both moto’s. Being lapped by Jeffrey Herlings doesn’t mean that you don’t deserve to be out there. You try going to Matterley and watching a race with 20 riders in it, it’s boring as hell and if that’s the future of the sport I want absolutely no part in it. I genuinely won’t watch any GP on TV that has less than 25 riders in it 

aees wrote:
Just an example. How much do you add to the race being outside top 15 constantly? Not much. Zero screen time. If you want gatefillers, we...

Just an example. How much do you add to the race being outside top 15 constantly? Not much. Zero screen time.

If you want gatefillers, we can line up whoever, after the gate drops barely 8-12 gets screen time . How does it then matter?

No one in here can answer how riders outside top 10 did anyway directly after a race. 

If you black flagged 20 riders after lap 1, no one would notice.

It's BS it adds to the race having 40 vs 20. It's just a mental feeling and looking good having full gate, pre gate drop. But does it matter? Nope.

You want to see top 10 racing, with some mix of a wildcard getting in the mix. This is why WSX struggle. If full gate was a key requirement, it would be a success. But no, it's the quality of riders, not the quantity that matters.

If you actually go to the race then the riders 15-20 and beyond add an awful lot to the race. They’re the guys who make it so you don’t have to wait over a minute for the leaders to come around every time. Also, if Herlings, or Prado, or whoever, goes down in turn one and gets up in 40th, then that makes for a much better race than if they are already 12th at the end of lap one. Why are you so bothered about screen time? There is far more to racing than who gets on TV. You may not be able to tell us anything about who finished outside the Top 10 but that doesn’t apply to everyone. 
 

You make out anyone outside the Top 15 is a complete waste of time who’s just in the way, that is both disrespectful and wrong. At Trentino 30th-40th were about 6 seconds off the pace of the race winner, that is more than respectable. 
 

There are many reasons why SMX struggles, having a full gate is not one of them 

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Spoonguy
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10/13/2023 4:45am

Maybe it is not about the racing at all, maybe it is because a lot of Europe is a shitty place to live.

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ts173
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10/13/2023 4:48am

I'm a Rider Manager responsible for some EMX250 and MX2 riders in the GPs, and I've got to tell you, it's a real struggle for me to find opportunities for these talented riders.

I've got this one rider who has had some top 5/6 overalls in EMX250 and also 13th and 14th place overall in MX2 wildcards. But even with these results, I can't seem to find them a ride. It's frustrating because, in this world, it often comes down to money when it shouldn't. Riders, even with a lot of talent, still need to bring financial support just to get a response from teams.

Now, when we look at the United States, they have more sponsorship opportunities and financial support available. American riders can get personal deals for their Gear, Helmet, Goggles and Boot, some of which can be worth over $250,000. It's no wonder that European riders dream of making it big in the USA.

The problem here is greed. Until the people in the industry shift their focus away from the money and start valuing talent more, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon.

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aees
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10/13/2023 4:49am
RG437 wrote:
15-20 riders is not a motocross race and not a spectacle. How many riders get lapped depends on a number of factors, conditions, length of lap...

15-20 riders is not a motocross race and not a spectacle. How many riders get lapped depends on a number of factors, conditions, length of lap etc. in Trentino there were 40 riders and 26 of them didn’t get lapped in both moto’s. Being lapped by Jeffrey Herlings doesn’t mean that you don’t deserve to be out there. You try going to Matterley and watching a race with 20 riders in it, it’s boring as hell and if that’s the future of the sport I want absolutely no part in it. I genuinely won’t watch any GP on TV that has less than 25 riders in it 

aees wrote:
Just an example. How much do you add to the race being outside top 15 constantly? Not much. Zero screen time. If you want gatefillers, we...

Just an example. How much do you add to the race being outside top 15 constantly? Not much. Zero screen time.

If you want gatefillers, we can line up whoever, after the gate drops barely 8-12 gets screen time . How does it then matter?

No one in here can answer how riders outside top 10 did anyway directly after a race. 

If you black flagged 20 riders after lap 1, no one would notice.

It's BS it adds to the race having 40 vs 20. It's just a mental feeling and looking good having full gate, pre gate drop. But does it matter? Nope.

You want to see top 10 racing, with some mix of a wildcard getting in the mix. This is why WSX struggle. If full gate was a key requirement, it would be a success. But no, it's the quality of riders, not the quantity that matters.

RG437 wrote:
If you actually go to the race then the riders 15-20 and beyond add an awful lot to the race. They’re the guys who make it...

If you actually go to the race then the riders 15-20 and beyond add an awful lot to the race. They’re the guys who make it so you don’t have to wait over a minute for the leaders to come around every time. Also, if Herlings, or Prado, or whoever, goes down in turn one and gets up in 40th, then that makes for a much better race than if they are already 12th at the end of lap one. Why are you so bothered about screen time? There is far more to racing than who gets on TV. You may not be able to tell us anything about who finished outside the Top 10 but that doesn’t apply to everyone. 
 

You make out anyone outside the Top 15 is a complete waste of time who’s just in the way, that is both disrespectful and wrong. At Trentino 30th-40th were about 6 seconds off the pace of the race winner, that is more than respectable. 
 

There are many reasons why SMX struggles, having a full gate is not one of them 

Just disagree. 

Jett was in 23 after 1 lap, being dead last. Racing and story would have been so much better if he could still challenge for a win. I don't think anyone can disagree on that. Instead having to wait behind riders that are roadblocks but still in the way due to being so many robbed us from that and we did not see much 

My opinion is, there is more good racing destroyed between leaders of in the top due to lappers, than what they add in value.

You seem to get stuck on how long or how much they are behind in the race. I'm just saying, there is no notable loss watching a MXGP race with 15-20, good guys at the gate compared to having 40. On TV, you just don't notice it at all after gate drop.

​​​Being present at the race, the majority beside som local fan still follow the leaders around the track. I'm been to plenty of them. It's the same with Supercross. Being at A1 and section 2-3 up, you can see all the riders around the track. Who do you look at? Surprise, top 10 max. You can barely keep up with top 3. 

​​​​​​Would be better to create good tight racing with 20 riders that is closer in times to ensure a better race during its full racing time. Now, the rest of the 20 just space the good riders out during first few laps (which kills the racing later), and also they are in the way when getting lapped destroying racing further.

Leave the others to a b-final which could include EMX riders. 

8
rym
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10/13/2023 5:09am

On tv it doesnt matter indeed, a guy starting 18th and finishing in 13th will not be seen in the broadcast apart from the start and possibly if he crashes. 

I do strongly disagree on that the 20 to 40th place guys dont add when you are at the races. To each his own, but for me a full field adds a lot during a race.

4
10/13/2023 5:11am

You want 40 on the gate because they all have a chance of earning points (20th) towards SMX purse money at the end of the season. 
 

* 21-40 are racing for points if they finish 20th or better. Every race those guys get better plus they get two chances to pull the holeshot against Factory riders. Just that’s awesome. Smile
 

 

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rym
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10/13/2023 5:12am
ts173 wrote:
I'm a Rider Manager responsible for some EMX250 and MX2 riders in the GPs, and I've got to tell you, it's a real struggle for me...

I'm a Rider Manager responsible for some EMX250 and MX2 riders in the GPs, and I've got to tell you, it's a real struggle for me to find opportunities for these talented riders.

I've got this one rider who has had some top 5/6 overalls in EMX250 and also 13th and 14th place overall in MX2 wildcards. But even with these results, I can't seem to find them a ride. It's frustrating because, in this world, it often comes down to money when it shouldn't. Riders, even with a lot of talent, still need to bring financial support just to get a response from teams.

Now, when we look at the United States, they have more sponsorship opportunities and financial support available. American riders can get personal deals for their Gear, Helmet, Goggles and Boot, some of which can be worth over $250,000. It's no wonder that European riders dream of making it big in the USA.

The problem here is greed. Until the people in the industry shift their focus away from the money and start valuing talent more, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon.

Is it greed or is it simply teams not having the money to offer something decent? 

 

Press516
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Fantasy
10/13/2023 5:30am

It used to be that the feeder series for the GP's was the best.  It actually still is, but it's hurting the main product now.  The EMX250 and EMX-OPEN classes have riders and teams that should be in the actual GP's to make them better.  No, 15 to 20 rider gates are not good...  That deterioration in the GP's is a sign of decline.  Having races in obscure countries that don't even have riders that participate isn't adding to the sport.

The flip side is the AMA series is too long now.  But the program is better...  More fans, more riders and SX is where the manufacturers want to be because of it.

1
ayearinmx
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10/13/2023 6:25am

This is how many actual riders there were on the gate in the MXGP/MX2 classes for 2023...

WhatsApp Image 2023-10-13 at 21.23.31

 

2
10/13/2023 7:07am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2023 7:09am

MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer. 
 

MXGP equals million pound salary’s with a proper off season & no risk of death cross. 
 


 

 

14
NorCal1975
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10/13/2023 7:18am
vrossi wrote:

Only reason to go race in the us is for sx. If you want to race mx the competition level of mxgp is way higher 

This was true in the 450 class this year, but I would argue the 250 class in the AMA was quite a bit deeper than the MX 2 class in 2023 (the age rule in MX 2 definitely hurts that class in terms of depth)

1
mxb2
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10/13/2023 7:24am
MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer.    MXGP equals million pound salary’s with...

MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer. 
 

MXGP equals million pound salary’s with a proper off season & no risk of death cross. 
 


 

 

Maybe they like sx, crazy idea.  

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1
Park Boys
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10/13/2023 8:00am

I believe Simon already said no, Lewis said he’s afraid of SX. For along time we were not getting many riders. Which is why the GP’s were so damn strong lately IMO. Herlings, Prado stayed. I feel Gajser got strong armed into staying due to Honda singing Roczen when he was trying to come over. Now it looks like a lot of the guys want to come over again. Seems like this comes in cycles. The GPs are so much stronger when there are guys to pick on the mega talents. 

GrapeApe
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10/13/2023 8:03am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2023 8:07am
MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer.    MXGP equals million pound salary’s with...

MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer. 
 

MXGP equals million pound salary’s with a proper off season & no risk of death cross. 
 


 

 

It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging.

Before you start asking for Americans to take a pay cut to fill gates in your series, maybe focus on changes on your side of the pond to at least try to retain your European talent? That would be a start.

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mxb2
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10/13/2023 8:05am
MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer.    MXGP equals million pound salary’s with...

MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer. 
 

MXGP equals million pound salary’s with a proper off season & no risk of death cross. 
 


 

 

GrapeApe wrote:
It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging. Before you start asking for Americans to...

It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging.

Before you start asking for Americans to take a pay cut to fill gates in your series, maybe focus on changes on your side of the pond to at least try to retain your European talent? That would be a start.

He doesnt get it. 

1
10/13/2023 8:11am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2023 8:16am
GrapeApe wrote:
It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging. Before you start asking for Americans to...

It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging.

Before you start asking for Americans to take a pay cut to fill gates in your series, maybe focus on changes on your side of the pond to at least try to retain your European talent? That would be a start.

Well your outdoor series was a two horse race so I think you might be over selling it a bit. 
 

Without Sx your series is just like any other national series. 
 

Ultimately MXGP is the king dingaling. Once aged out of MX2 if a rider isn’t up to being a potential MXGP champ, then Sx, super duper cross etc can be a good way to earn well, but there’s clearly additional risks with Sx. 

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mxb2
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10/13/2023 8:12am
GrapeApe wrote:
It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging. Before you start asking for Americans to...

It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging.

Before you start asking for Americans to take a pay cut to fill gates in your series, maybe focus on changes on your side of the pond to at least try to retain your European talent? That would be a start.

Well your outdoor series was a two horse race so I think you might be over selling it a bit.    Without Sx your series is...

Well your outdoor series was a two horse race so I think you might be over selling it a bit. 
 

Without Sx your series is just like any other national series. 
 

Ultimately MXGP is the king dingaling. Once aged out of MX2 if a rider isn’t up to being a potential MXGP champ, then Sx, super duper cross etc can be a good way to earn well, but there’s clearly additional risks with Sx. 

How many mxgp races do you attend a year?

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2
10/13/2023 8:20am
mxb2 wrote:

How many mxgp races do you attend a year?

I’ve been to plenty over the years & live under an hour from matterly. . Why ? 

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4
vrossi
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groesbeek NL
10/13/2023 8:20am
vrossi wrote:

Only reason to go race in the us is for sx. If you want to race mx the competition level of mxgp is way higher 

NorCal1975 wrote:
This was true in the 450 class this year, but I would argue the 250 class in the AMA was quite a bit deeper than the...

This was true in the 450 class this year, but I would argue the 250 class in the AMA was quite a bit deeper than the MX 2 class in 2023 (the age rule in MX 2 definitely hurts that class in terms of depth)

mx2 is not that much different I think at least for the top 

1
mxb2
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10/13/2023 8:24am
mxb2 wrote:

How many mxgp races do you attend a year?

I’ve been to plenty over the years & live under an hour from matterly. . Why ? 

Cool, just making sure you are.supporting the series you are so vocal about. 

2
GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX US
10/13/2023 8:29am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2023 8:29am
GrapeApe wrote:
It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging. Before you start asking for Americans to...

It's not just the top US riders sandbagging, its also the top Aussies, Asians, South Americans, and Europeans sandbagging.

Before you start asking for Americans to take a pay cut to fill gates in your series, maybe focus on changes on your side of the pond to at least try to retain your European talent? That would be a start.

Well your outdoor series was a two horse race so I think you might be over selling it a bit.    Without Sx your series is...

Well your outdoor series was a two horse race so I think you might be over selling it a bit. 
 

Without Sx your series is just like any other national series. 
 

Ultimately MXGP is the king dingaling. Once aged out of MX2 if a rider isn’t up to being a potential MXGP champ, then Sx, super duper cross etc can be a good way to earn well, but there’s clearly additional risks with Sx. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the newly crowned king of the king dingaling realize his dream of racing stateside. He's going to be an exciting addition to US motocross and supercross.

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2
DonM
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10/13/2023 8:35am
MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer.    MXGP equals million pound salary’s with...

MXGP might have full gates if the top US riders stopped sand bagging a 90% privateer series each summer. 
 

MXGP equals million pound salary’s with a proper off season & no risk of death cross. 
 


 

 

Pretty sure there were as many injuries in MXGP.....

1
10/13/2023 8:42am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2023 8:44am
mxb2 wrote:

Cool, just making sure you are.supporting the series you are so vocal about. 

Hey I’m a fan off all the series, the OP clearly having a bit of a pop fun to have a pop back. Don’t take it too heart. 
 

MXGP guys are the most accomplished overall for all the obvious reasons. It’s not a perfect series buts it’s the closest thing we have in our sport right not too a proper world champs. 
 

It could be better of course 

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10/13/2023 8:45am
DonM wrote:

Pretty sure there were as many injuries in MXGP.....

SX  Is a meat grinder let’s hope Prado stays healthy. 

2

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